20 gallon Reef Tank cycle

[reeftankdude]

Added fishless ammonia at 3ppm and API Quick start 6 days ago. The ammonia level is still 3ppm with no nitrite nor nitrate showing on test. The water is now very cloudy. It looks like a micro sand storm inside of the tank. Your thoughts please. Thanks all

[DaJMasta]

Cloudy water is a telltale bacterial bloom, so while the numbers may not be showing it, I think it's well underway.  3ppm is a pretty high initial ammonia level, and depending on how it was added and whether it's been added since, it could just be that the initial amount was enough to not show it dropping yet.

[mcarroll]

On 12/29/2021 at 3:23 PM, reeftankdude said:

Added fishless ammonia at 3ppm and API Quick start 6 days ago. The ammonia level is still 3ppm with no nitrite nor nitrate showing on test. The water is now very cloudy. It looks like a micro sand storm inside of the tank. Your thoughts please. Thanks all

Sounds like you started off misusing the product....fishless cycling is one of those "gotcha's" I'm sorry to say.  Very popular, not quite necessary, not well understood.  Dr Tim's is one of the main suppliers for "fishless cycling"supplies, and even they say right on their website that fishless cycling isn't required.

 

Back to your situation.  You chose API Quick Start.  https://apifishcare.com/product/quick-start

Quote

API® QUICK START nitrifying bacteria allows for the instant addition of fish[...]

Since your ammonia bottle is standing in for "fish" and your ammonia was added in "one fell swoop", the ammonia went to work where the ammonia was – in the water column.

 

Proper use, as the instructions state, is to add this along with your tank's first fish or other animals.  As you can imagine this results in a different pattern of ammonia release.  👍

 

I think I'd do at least a 50% water change, and I wouldn't mess with the ammonia anymore.

 

It's possible that if you cut 100% of flow in the tank for a day or two that gravity might clear the water in a day or two, literally allowing all that bacteria to settle in to the substrate.

[reeftankdude]

thanks all

[reeftankdude]

Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate not showing up on water test. However, the tank is still cloudy. Your thoughts and thanks?

 

 

 

[reeftankdude]

[reeftankdude]

Made some fresh

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

[reeftankdude]

Made some fresh Instant Ocean salt water and tested using the same API Ammonia Test Kit. The results was the same as when testing the reef tank water and that is zero. Thanks all

[DaJMasta]

Is any of the cloudiness on the glass, or just in the water?

 

 

In really any case, the cloudiness of the water is a bacterial bloom, probably the very same bacteria eating up your tank's nutrients.  You may not see a lot of the traditional cycle elements based on how it is blooming, but there will gradually accumulate nitrates as an ultimate result.  You could try a tiny amount of food (like a flake or two or equivalent weight) as things normalize, but the answer is likely still to wait for things to stabilize.

 

Are your lights on a normal cycle?  If they are, the bloom is probably at least partially fueled by this.  Are your heater and circulation on?  It's probably good to have them set as they should speed things somewhat, but it probably won't harm things to leave the tank cool or still.

[reeftankdude]

3 hours ago, DaJMasta said:

Is any of the cloudiness on the glass, or just in the water?

 

 

In really any case, the cloudiness of the water is a bacterial bloom, probably the very same bacteria eating up your tank's nutrients.  You may not see a lot of the traditional cycle elements based on how it is blooming, but there will gradually accumulate nitrates as an ultimate result.  You could try a tiny amount of food (like a flake or two or equivalent weight) as things normalize, but the answer is likely still to wait for things to stabilize.

 

Are your lights on a normal cycle?  If they are, the bloom is probably at least partially fueled by this.  Are your heater and circulation on?  It's probably good to have them set as they should speed things somewhat, but it probably won't harm things to leave the tank cool or still.

Just in the water. I keep the tank lights out. The room light is all the tank is getting.  The heater is on at 78 degrees and pumps are moving close to 500 gallons per hour. thanks

[reeftankdude]

Was also advised to add some ammonia to see if it will go away in 24 hours. Your thoughts and thanks

[DaJMasta]

Adding raw ammonia is roughly similar.  The idea is that if you have a large amount of ammonia initially, the population of ammonia reducing bacteria bloom quickly, but then when the food source dwindles, it crashes back down.  By adding some food that will decay into ammonia or a small amount of extra ammonia, you keep more of them alive to lessen the swingyness of the initial period.

 

They won't all die out and defeat the purpose of the cycle, but a relatively constant input of food (ammonia source) will make sure that those breaking it into nitrite, then those breaking it into nitrate, are always sustained in some quantity.  Not a huge deal as it is normally only a few days for them to multiply up to fill a new need, but also goes some way towards getting nutrients in the system and reducing the size of any subsequent blooms.

[reeftankdude]

6 hours ago, DaJMasta said:

Adding raw ammonia is roughly similar.  The idea is that if you have a large amount of ammonia initially, the population of ammonia reducing bacteria bloom quickly, but then when the food source dwindles, it crashes back down.  By adding some food that will decay into ammonia or a small amount of extra ammonia, you keep more of them alive to lessen the swingyness of the initial period.

 

They won't all die out and defeat the purpose of the cycle, but a relatively constant input of food (ammonia source) will make sure that those breaking it into nitrite, then those breaking it into nitrate, are always sustained in some quantity.  Not a huge deal as it is normally only a few days for them to multiply up to fill a new need, but also goes some way towards getting nutrients in the system and reducing the size of any subsequent blooms.

thanks

[reeftankdude]

Thinking about lowering the amount of water being pumped to help the bacteria in the water settle. However, this may lower oxygen levels.  Thanks all

[mcarroll]

20 hours ago, reeftankdude said:

Thinking about lowering the amount of water being pumped to help the bacteria in the water settle. However, this may lower oxygen levels.  Thanks all

You already know my vote on that. 😉 

[reeftankdude]

[DaJMasta]

Inches of fish isn't a very good measure to be using, and if ammonia is still reading above zero, I would delay adding livestock until it reads zero.

 

After that, do you have a plan for the kind of fish, corals, or inverts you want?  If you have a general idea of what you want to keep and maybe some goal animals, you can try to pick one that is hardier to start and which will get along with other things.  Beyond initial hardiness, a risk of adding a territorial fish is that it sort of takes over the tank as its territory and after it has settled in, is more likely to bully new additions, but other fish that get some or all of their nutrition from creatures in a cycled tank or from algae shouldn't be added until those things are present for them to actually eat.

Something hardy and peaceful that you want in your stocking goal would be my vote, then consider a clean up crew (snails, crabs maybe, etc.)

[mcarroll]

21 hours ago, reeftankdude said:

Still using the product differently from what it's intended for, if that's of interest.  

 

For good results (instead of a dice roll) add the product when you add the fish just like the instructions say to do.

 

Done that way, bacteria go to work on the ammonia being generated by the fish, so it's automatically "the right amount" for the fish you've added – just follow the guidelines on the bottle.

 

BTW, the way we cycled tanks in the old days was better and more predictable....all you have to do is be mindful of the ammonia spike you'll be generating.  That means keeping the spike as small as possible at the beginning.  You do that by starting with the smallest bio-load you can – which is generally cleanup crew.  Start with 1-2 small organisms and build slowly from there.  Wait 3-4 weeks between additions, growing your bio-load gradually, and selecting larger critters as you proceed toward adding fish...which are usually added last since they represent, by far, the largest bio-load.  And use an AmmoAlert badge.

 

Most folks go fish-first, which is kinda silly when you think about how the system is going to work – it's literally asking for algae blooms and other "new tank problems".  

 

It's no wonder there are so many problems when so many folks "have the cart before the horse" as my grampa used to say.

[reeftankdude]

Was able to get zero ammonia in 24 hours from 2ppm. Tried it again and I am stuck at 1ppm ammonia with no nitrate nor nitrite showing. The water is also still cloudy. May start over with a complete water change and follow API's instruction with a small hardy fish. This is not frustrating to me, but rather interesting with some fun.

[Murphs_Reef]

On 1/5/2022 at 8:47 PM, reeftankdude said:

Smallest font ever!!!

[reeftankdude]

3 hours ago, Murphych said:

Smallest font ever!!!

 

[DaJMasta]

It's good it's fun for you, but I don't think it's a dealbreaker that your nitrate isn't showing.  My assumption is whatever was generated is being bound up in the bacterial bloom, and while I don't know what portion of other things in the water is being removed by them either, if you stop feeding the ammonia breaking down varieties with new ammonia, the bloom of the later stage nitrogen users should die back, and things should level off.  While it's useful to keep feeding a small amount to keep the cycle going in an interim, I don't think dosing even to 1ppm is really a good thing beyond the initial start.  I would stop dosing ammonia, then when it reads zero, add your first livestock.

 

If you're worried about the bloom, try dosing 1/4 or 1/8 of your 2ppm dose and it should die back within a few days.  Dosing so much ammonia just means so much nutrient input that the bacteria are still blooming, and while it's great the ammonia breakdown is quick, it's not necessary for it to be hyper-efficient when the initial stocking is going to be small.  I also think dosing an equivalent in an aquarium food would be more beneficial (though I still wouldn't input this total amount at this stage) because you get other nutrients that support other life rather than just the pure food source for the nitrogen cycle.

[brandon429]

 You are done cycling. There isn’t a need for two rounds of ammonia, and that action specifically clouds non digital kits. Combine this with an nh4 vs nh3 interpretation of the test and you’re set for a false stall. This cycle is done, and seneye would show your nh3 at .005 or so.

 

 

I can link multiple threads showing your current second reading in fully stocked reef tanks, therefore you aren’t stalled. You are getting tricked by the way non digital test kits work. Your ammonia is under control.

 

 

stop doing anything cycle related and focus on not killing the fish by skipping disease preps. Change your mega dosed waste water for clean water and it’s ready to carry life.

 

 

notice how no ammonia line on any cycle chart goes back up after it drops? You are past the # of days wait on that same data plot line on any cycling chart made. All these are compound indicators of being done, the non digital test kit means nothing. It will slowly come down over the next ten days not because your bacteria are still building, but because it’s not seneye which would show you ready last week sometime. The timescales inferred from non digital kits are inaccurate by multiple days, any seneye owner can tell us.

[reeftankdude]

4 hours ago, brandon429 said:

 You are done cycling. There isn’t a need for two rounds of ammonia, and that action specifically clouds non digital kits. Combine this with an nh4 vs nh3 interpretation of the test and you’re set for a false stall. This cycle is done, and seneye would show your nh3 at .005 or so.

 

 

I can link multiple threads showing your current second reading in fully stocked reef tanks, therefore you aren’t stalled. You are getting tricked by the way non digital test kits work. Your ammonia is under control.

 

 

stop doing anything cycle related and focus on not killing the fish by skipping disease preps. Change your mega dosed waste water for clean water and it’s ready to carry life.

 

 

notice how no ammonia line on any cycle chart goes back up after it drops? You are past the # of days wait on that same data plot line on any cycling chart made. All these are compound indicators of being done, the non digital test kit means nothing. It will slowly come down over the next ten days not because your bacteria are still building, but because it’s not seneye which would show you ready last week sometime. The timescales inferred from non digital kits are inaccurate by multiple days, any seneye owner can tell us.

Cool, I will change the water 100 percent and add fish very slowly.