Help with cycling

[Kfir]

I have a 20 GL cube that I've started to cycle 9 days ago. I have about 15LB of dry rock only with filter floss and carbon, Salinity of 1.025 and temp of 78F. To start the cycle I used Dr. Tims + Ammonium Chloride 2 ppm at day 0 and another 2 ppm at day 4, after seeing a drop in ammonia to 0.5 (the ammonia never spiked to more than 1.5 ppm).

My concern is that I don't have a typical cycle - my nitrates are currently very high ~50 ppm but I still have 0.5 ammonia without any change during last days.

The nitrite are also stable at around 0.25-0.5. BTW I'm using Salifert kit for my water testing.

Do I need to wait few more days even though Dr. Tims says typically it should take ~9 days , or should I do a big water change?

 

[Clown79]

It takes time to cycle. 9 days isn't much. It can take weeks.

 

Try adding biospira, that bacteria supplement has the best reputation for cycling. 

[Tamale]

Tests can be unreliable too. My API test at one point was different from my Seneye/Red Sea tests by like .25 a few times. If you’re local fish store tests and they use a different brand or have digital tests you could take it to them as well to see how they compare with yours. 

[Kfir]

I think I'll add Microbacter 7 to boost the process.

[Tamale]

41 minutes ago, Kfir said:

I think I'll add Microbacter 7 to boost the process.

Fritzturbo start is amazing too if you have easy access to it if you go the add more bacteria route!

[DevilDuck]

Give it some more time. Cycling from dry rock may take several weeks.

[mcarroll]

On 10/25/2021 at 10:21 AM, Kfir said:

I used Dr. Tims + Ammonium Chloride 2 ppm at day 0 and another 2 ppm at day 4, after seeing a drop in ammonia to 0.5 (the ammonia never spiked to more than 1.5 ppm).

This doesn't seem to make sense....or maybe it does since the basic idea is sketchy.

 

If you dosed 2.0 ppm of ammonia on TWO separate occasions, then you DID spike ammonia higher than 1.5 ppm – two times.  (Try not to confuse what you actually did with what your test kits tell you.)

 

If you dose 2.0 ppm and fail to measure 2.0 ppm, then there's something wrong with the test or how you did it, or how you measured your ammonia.  (Maybe you didn't measure right away?)

 

On 10/25/2021 at 10:21 AM, Kfir said:

my nitrates are currently very high ~50 ppm

Those nitrates come from the ammonia....and are the proof that your tank processed the ammonia.  (This is the "cycle"....bacteria that can convert ammonia into nitrite then nitrate.)

 

Considering everything, the 0.5 ppm you have left is probably actually ZERO.  Can you get your LFS to re-test for you just in case?  Or can you post a picture of your test results so we can see what "0.5" looks like?

 

FYI, doing a tank cycle WITHOUT something like Dr Tims (or BioSpira) is where the 30-40 day wait comes in.  (See the Dr Tims FAQ.  Back in the day when folks read books (like these) this topic was more widely understood, and better-covered than some random FAQ.  It's usually called the natural method or something like that.)

 

From Dr Tim's website:  (https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/products/one-and-only-live-nitrifying-bacteria/)

Quote

Can One & Only be used for fishless cycling?

Yes, but there is no real reason to do fishless cycling with One & Only. However, if you choose to go that route you need to add ammonia to the water after dosing the One & Only because the bacteria need some source of ammonia to start growing a bigger population. Dose ammonia to an initial concentration of 2 to 4 ppm which should disappear quickly, with nitrate increasing a little then disappearing. Dose one or two more times with ammonia and after your test kits show no ammonia and nitrite, it is safe to start adding fish.

IMO it sounds like you're already there.  The ammonia went "quickly" as predicted.

 

On 10/25/2021 at 10:21 AM, Kfir said:

I still have 0.5 ammonia without any change during last days.

A testing artifact, probably actually zero....I would suggest you get someone else to test for you and verify the result.

 

If that's not possible, try this:

 

Make a pure water+ammonia sample with 2.0 ppm of ammonia in it and do a test that way to see/confirm what 2.0 looks like on your test kit – which will also show that you're doing the test correctly (or not).  Then also test pure water for ammonia to see what ZERO really looks like on your kit.

 

I'll bet you a nickle that zero looks A LOT like 0.5 ppm when you do this...and in fact is the same.

 

(Of course if it really looks like 0.5 ppm and not an artifact or whatever, then act accordingly (ask if you don't know)....and I'll owe you that nickel. 😆😉 )

[Kfir]

Thanks, So here's a quick update after 17 days into the cycle. My ammonium is stable on 0, the nitrite is 1.5-2.0 and the nitrates are very high ~100 ppm (dark purple with the salifert test kit)

my question is, do I need to wait until I can see a drop in the nitrite? I assume the very high nitrates value indicates the the cycle runs successfully but should I worry that this high reading can somehow stall the process of the nitrifying bacteria that turns the nitrite to nitrate?

I thought doing a water change but not sure about it. 

[brandon429]

that was the duration your ammonia test/ non digital/ took to clear, not the actual bacteria processing time. The levels you see in your kit require TAN conversion per the instructions, the ammonia you are reading is actually reported ten times lower by the kit after that crucial conversion

 

nobody in forums reports the converted numbers, few umpires ask for them. Seabass does, the whole concept was pointed out to me by Seabass about a decade ago here.

 

we expect a running reef tank to register total ammonia, even after a cycle, its why api is notorious for its maintained low level reads with no zero

some, few, read yellow zero in a reef tank. the vast majority of anyone asked to run an api test right now on a running reef will not be hard yellow zero.

 

the original drop time was the cycle end date, it matched ~ day ten on a cycling chart when ammonia drops after that wait.

 

Your tank was ready when you first posted. 

 

once digital ammonia tracking takes over the entire cycling paradigm will change, 100% fact.

 

nitrite is neutral in display tank reefing, for proof google this article, its our top reference in reefing:

 

nitrite in the reef tank, Randy Holmes Farley

 

nitrite only matters in low salinity settings, freshwater tanks and quarantines. it never, ever matters or harms animals in a display reef and frankly the test mostly isn't trusted just the same, until these are calibrated digital measures. We have several threads on file now where bottle bac cycles are tracked on seneye

 

red sea and api takes upwards of an extra week to ten days to report the drop the bottle bac did on day 1. this action is why when people buy fish and bottle bac and add to an uncycled tank, they feed and act normal. Ammonia control happens instantly after adding bacteria, ask any seneye owner so it doesnt seem like I'm making it up. I spent the last eight years sampling live cycles on reef2reef with several seneye owners to track these trends 

[Dave21]

7 hours ago, Kfir said:

Thanks, So here's a quick update after 17 days into the cycle. My ammonium is stable on 0, the nitrite is 1.5-2.0 and the nitrates are very high ~100 ppm (dark purple with the salifert test kit)

my question is, do I need to wait until I can see a drop in the nitrite? I assume the very high nitrates value indicates the the cycle runs successfully but should I worry that this high reading can somehow stall the process of the nitrifying bacteria that turns the nitrite to nitrate?

I thought doing a water change but not sure about it. 

When I cycled my tank I had a similar issue of my Nitrites stalled out and not changing over several weeks. My Nitrites never dropped below 2ish during the cycle. I also set up a tank with dry rock. Ammonia was always zero after dosing and my Nitrates around 40ppm. 

 

I eventually did several large water changes 40 to 50% over a weekend to get the Nitrites to zero and reduced Nitrate to abt 10 ppm then added a pair of clownfish with a whole bottle of Biospira. I tested Ammonia and Nitrite daily for several weeks after and always came back as zero and havent had an issue since.

[Kfir]

thanks for the advice. I'll probably wait few more days for the nitrite level to decrease and if it doesn't, will perform a big water change.