Undetectable Phosphates Nitrates at around 5ppm after two 20% water changes.

[sunnycadreamer]

Specs: 32gallon Biocube, Mixed Reef, Protein Skimmer, Intank Media Basket with Filter Floss, ChemPure Elite, Matrix. PhosGuard in 3rd chamber. I have 1 Ocellaris Clown, one High Fin Banded Goby, and 1 Tiger Pistol Shrimp. 20lbs of live sand, and 24+ lbs live rock. My tank is now 6 weeks old so pretty new I know.

 

All my parameters so far have been within range. I'm just trying to make it as perfect for my tank as possible now.

 

So I have a HANNA Ultra Low Phosphate checker and it's been reading 0 since I got it. However I am still showing Nitrates (API test kit). I've done a couple 20% water changes in the last week and it did reduce my Nitrates  from 10ppm to 5ppm ish. My question is...should I remove my PhosGuard so that my phosphates rise a bit to help feed the bacteria that feed on Nitrates? Or, just keep doing water changes until I get the level where I want it (around 5ppm or less) and see how it maintains? I am having to dose Tropic Marin all reef to boost my calcium etc. I also have a sun coral so more frequent feedings are just going to be a thing in my tank. He's currently eating every other day frozen food mix. I've had them before and this feeding schedule has worked well.

[mitten_reef]

If you have no phosphate, and want phosphate, then you probably shouldn't be using a phosphate remover (phosguard).  It's a balancing act, but I'd just go without phosguard and see where you land on phosphate level first.    Or you could slowly remove phosguard media, as to not have phosphate spike (in case phosguard was doing too good of a job).

[sunnycadreamer]

In a perfect world I'd like zero or near zero phosphate and 5ppm or less Nitrates. Just getting some input on how to best obtain those numbers if possible.

[Clown79]

You don't want 0 phosphates or 0 nitrates. Thats a very old school method that has been proven as very bad.

 

Your corals need both and 0 phos leads to nuisance algae and dino's.

 

You have 0 phos because you are running far too much media and your tank is being stripped..

 

Sterile tanks are not natural. Having some algae is perfectly normal and isn't a problem.

[sunnycadreamer]

I've been going off of the BRS videos which are only 2 years old, where it recommends near zero phosphates and around 3ppm Nitrates. Figuring on the error range of the Hanna Checker I'm probably fine on phosphates just trying to keep my Nitrates down at or below 5ppm.

[mitten_reef]

1 hour ago, mitten_reef said:

If you have no phosphate, and want phosphate, then you probably shouldn't be using a phosphate remover (phosguard).  It's a balancing act, but I'd just go without phosguard and see where you land on phosphate level first.    Or you could slowly remove phosguard media, as to not have phosphate spike (in case phosguard was doing too good of a job).

^ that was my input. you can't be actively removing phosphate with the use of phosguard, and expect to see phosphate in your water column.  By the time you see it, that probably means your phosguard is oversaturated its capacity.  So if you want more specific input, then remove phosguard, wait a few days, measure phosphate.  If there's still no phosphate, then you can consider dosing phosphate additive (precise), or increase feeding (less precise).  but trying to "increase" phosphate, while actively removing it doesn't make any sense.

obtaining targeted numbers is one thing.  simply knowing/understanding what your tank's resting "baselines" are between your routine water changes, that will be much better to your parameters management down the road, and that should apply to all parameters, N, P, Ca, Alk, Mg, etc.   

1 hour ago, sunnycadreamer said:

In a perfect world I'd like zero or near zero phosphate and 5ppm or less Nitrates. Just getting some input on how to best obtain those numbers if possible.

 

[Cannedfish]

20 minutes ago, sunnycadreamer said:

I've been going off of the BRS videos which are only 2 years old, where it recommends near zero phosphates and around 3ppm Nitrates. Figuring on the error range of the Hanna Checker I'm probably fine on phosphates just trying to keep my Nitrates down at or below 5ppm.

Was that when BRS was running the Zeovit tank?

 

Also do you currently have or are planning to have corals? Otherwise I am not sure why you are chasing these numbers? Unless you have coral, you probably don't need to be dosing AFR, water changes should be more than sufficient.

[pokerdobe]

I wouldn't focus so much on the number itself and focus on stability and consistency. 

 

The average parameters of some of the really nice reef tanks come out to the following:

• NO3 18.77
• PO4 .18

Every tank's ecosystem is different. Find that sweet spot for your tank. It might be what you described. It might be completely different. Your tank has what I refer to as a "natural" resting point that it's going to want to settle on. 

[sunnycadreamer]

13 minutes ago, Cannedfish said:

Was that when BRS was running the Zeovit tank?

 

Also do you currently have or are planning to have corals? Otherwise I am not sure why you are chasing these numbers? Unless you have coral, you probably don't need to be dosing AFR, water changes should be more than sufficient.

I do have some easier keeping LPS and soft corals and that is why I am dosing. Everything in my tank looks happy except for my Sinularia but, I swear he's like a bratty teenager. I don't think he likes where I moved him and he's throwing a fit. He has more attitude than anyone in the tank. I know more established tanks tend to run great at higher numbers I was just trying to keep my Nitrates lowish to prevent future algae issues and complaints from the coral.

[sunnycadreamer]

12 minutes ago, pokerdobe said:

I wouldn't focus so much on the number itself and focus on stability and consistency. 

 

The average parameters of some of the really nice reef tanks come out to the following:

• NO3 18.77
• PO4 .18

Every tank's ecosystem is different. Find that sweet spot for your tank. It might be what you described. It might be completely different. Your tank has what I refer to as a "natural" resting point that it's going to want to settle on. 

I think I may reduce my PhosGuard by half so it's not a drastic change and see where that puts me. I know more established tanks tend to run great at higher numbers I was just trying to keep my Nitrates lowish to prevent future algae issues and complaints from the coral.

[sunnycadreamer]

51 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

^ that was my input. you can't be actively removing phosphate with the use of phosguard, and expect to see phosphate in your water column.  By the time you see it, that probably means your phosguard is oversaturated its capacity.  So if you want more specific input, then remove phosguard, wait a few days, measure phosphate.  If there's still no phosphate, then you can consider dosing phosphate additive (precise), or increase feeding (less precise).  but trying to "increase" phosphate, while actively removing it doesn't make any sense.

obtaining targeted numbers is one thing.  simply knowing/understanding what your tank's resting "baselines" are between your routine water changes, that will be much better to your parameters management down the road, and that should apply to all parameters, N, P, Ca, Alk, Mg, etc.   

 

I'm not looking to add Phosphates just keep my Nitrates at around 3ppm without significantly raising my phosphates. I will try a few things ans see what happens.

[FISHnChix]

27 minutes ago, sunnycadreamer said:

I'm not looking to add Phosphates just keep my Nitrates at around 3ppm without significantly raising my phosphates. I will try a few things ans see what happens.

Here is the thing you are making a rookie mistake (same one we all make) buying into the hype that you need all this chemical and mechanical filtration to maintain a nice reef. And are already chasing ultra low parmas,  which a lot of us found out is actually worse for our reefs..

 

And fyi even if your aiming to keep your nitrates low at 3 you should easily be able to do that with your bioload  and wc.. 

 

Seems like you have already made up your mind though and are going to run all that filtration no matter what.. 😥

 

My advice would be to ditch all that stuff .  No seriously even the skimmer. Run filter floss and little bit of carbon you bag yourself.. really research and decide how much you want to feed your fish. And do weekly 5 gallon water changes for at least the first 8 months.. keep testing like you are and IF you start to see numbers you dont like then add stuff to try and reduce the numbers..

 

Welcome to nr... Happy Reefing😎🤙

 

 

 

[Tired]

Corals need nitrates and phosphates, or they'll eventually starve. It's not just in established tanks- all tanks need nutrients in the water. 

 

Algae is normal in newer tanks, and to some extent in older ones. As long as it isn't covering the corals, it's not a serious issue. You don't want to be chasing parameters trying to prevent something that's not just temporary, but largely harmless. You should expect to see algae, and trying to keep your nutrients too low for all alge algae will only let hardy pest algaes multiply instead. If you have enough nutrients for everything, non-pest algae will grow, and will outcompete pest algaes. Plus, low to no nutrients is the best way to get dinos, and THOSE are a problem. 

[mcarroll]

On 8/14/2020 at 3:08 PM, sunnycadreamer said:

I've been going off of the BRS videos which are only 2 years old, where it recommends near zero phosphates and around 3ppm Nitrates.

On 8/5/2020 at 4:57 AM, Tamberav said:

Start with Marine Aquarium Handbook Beginner to Breeder by Martin Moe for a base of information....then branch out to forums, magazines, more books, maybe even a video or two.  👍