Never use the api all test kit!

[Edwardfish]

Starting up my new nano 20 long I made the mistake of using api as my test kit. This may be my  Noob mistake in testing but I was constantly testing alk at 6 which from what I know is a big no no. I’ve been looking all over to start dosing to raise this but then I remember my reef crystals have a alk of 13 so I think no way my corals used this much. I test the reef crystals at 6 too after mixing my salt and then begin to wonder how bad this test kit is, which is really bad I guess. Maybe I had a really bad batch of salts but I doubt this it the case considering my corals are thriving (to me...) decent color and growth and no algae out breaks. So I just wanted to conclude with I need a good recommendation for test kits. Is Salifert or Red Sea good for cal and alk, I find the api ok for nitrates and phosphate good as long as it’s a general not much-none.

[seabass]

6 hours ago, Edwardfish said:

This may be my mistake in testing

It's pretty simply, but maybe.

 

Most people wish that API's alkalinity test would have a higher resolution (as each drop indicates a change of one dKH).  This might be good enough to approximate the value, but a more precise measurement is usually desired.  I don't know very many people who use their alkalinity kit.  I use Salifert's kit for alkalinity.  Hanna is another popular alkalinity kit (which has a digital readout).  Finally, I'm not aware of any problems with the Red Sea kits.

[paulsz]

I used the Red Sea Kit for two years. Then i switched to Hanna Alkalinity meter (it was on sale once and i figured i'd buy it). I still use the Red Sea one because it has 75 tests for almost the same price as 25 Hanna tests. And so when i'm testing alkalinity daily (when i first put in a bunch of coral frags), i was testing daily for a couple of weeks to get an estimate of my dosing needs. 

 

The only issue i've had with the red sea kit is some inconsistency with the shade of the reagent. Pretty weird. Some of the bottles I had were fantastic. Others had a really  light orange colour to them, and so when testing, the water was a really light blue colour (and i mean really light). You couldn't tell when it turned green, and when it turned yellow/orange because it was just so pale. 

 

Ive only ever used the API kits for my cycle (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). FOr those, i think it's fine. 

 

[Clown79]

I use to use the Api alk tester. I tested it against the big three.

 

These were the results

 

Api 9

Red Sea 8.8

Salifert 8.9

hanna 7.7( kit was defective so may be why it was so off)

 

I use Hanna because alk is the one thing I test frequently and hanna is so much faster than the rest of them.

 

When you say your reef crystals has an alk of 13, is that from testing or from the back of the packages alk number?

If the latter, that isn't always 100%. 

[Edwardfish]

2 hours ago, Clown79 said:

I use to use the Api alk tester. I tested it against the big three.

 

These were the results

 

Api 9

Red Sea 8.8

Salifert 8.9

hanna 7.7( kit was defective so may be why it was so off)

 

I use Hanna because alk is the one thing I test frequently and hanna is so much faster than the rest of them.

 

When you say your reef crystals has an alk of 13, is that from testing or from the back of the packages alk number?

If the latter, that isn't always 100%. 

I did realize I could have an effective bag of salts especially knowing instant ocean isn’t exactly known for having the highest quality salts I also think I could have had a defective all test after thinking. I’m going to get a new alk test and see what it reads and if it also reads 6-7 I’ll probably end up switching to a better salt...

[debbeach13]

There is a BRS video comparing 5 or 6 different test kits for ALK. They judge cost, ease of use, ease of reading results, accurate, consistency. They have several of these video's about testing.

[Clown79]

8 hours ago, Edwardfish said:

I did realize I could have an effective bag of salts especially knowing instant ocean isn’t exactly known for having the highest quality salts I also think I could have had a defective all test after thinking. I’m going to get a new alk test and see what it reads and if it also reads 6-7 I’ll probably end up switching to a better salt...

Instant ocean has no batch controls so there is no way of knowing what the parameters of each bag should be.

 

If you are going by the listed parameter values on the back of the bag as your target number- those aren't exactly 100%.

 

Have you tested newly made saltwater? 

[seabass]

31 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Instant ocean has no batch controls so there is no way of knowing what the parameters of each bag should be.

I find it hard to believe that they have "no" controls.  However, it's true that people report more variations in Instant Ocean's parameters than some other brands.  Still, it's highly unlikely that one batch would mix to 13 dKH, and another batch mix to 6 dKH.  Unless the salt got wet (or even exposed to high humidity) and precipitated, this was a testing error of some sort.

[Clown79]

55 minutes ago, seabass said:

I find it hard to believe that they have "no" controls.  However, it's true that people report more variations in Instant Ocean's parameters than some other brands.  Still, it's highly unlikely that one batch would mix to 13 dKH, and another batch mix to 6 dKH.  Unless the salt got wet (or even exposed to high humidity) and precipitated, this was a testing error of some sort.

There are no batch control numbers on the packages so there is no way of knowing what that batches parameters are supposed to be. Unlike other brands where you can look up that particular batches parameters.

 

I never once got alk mixed any higher than 9 with RC and each time i made water, it changed. 

And i always stir my salt before use to ensure its well dispersed.

 

It is a salt that hardens very easily and quickly even when properly stored. 

Not just out of my own experience but others as well. 

 

We are assuming the Api tester is an issue but has a new batch of sw ever been tested to determine the alk levels?

[seabass]

55 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

It is a salt that hardens very easily and quickly even when properly stored. 

Not just out of my own experience but others as well.

Yes, it's highly hygroscopic.  That's been my experience as well; which is partially why I added the "Unless the salt got wet (or even exposed to high humidity) and precipitated" disclaimer.  It's a potential reason not to buy or like IO salt.  However, if the salt isn't clumping, I wouldn't think it'd be mixing to 6 dKH.

 

Disclosure: My last three salt purchases have been IO Reef Crystals (because it's basically acceptable and typically much cheaper than the more desirable options).

 

55 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

There are no batch control numbers on the packages

That may be true, and batch numbers can be particularly relevant during a recall, manufacturing, or even a packaging situation.  And posting test results of each batch would be particularly useful.  However, they do publish their parameters, which I assume aren't intended to change from batch to batch (although we realize that they do).

 

55 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

there is no way of knowing what that batches parameters are supposed to be

Instant Ocean:

Parameter	Suggested Level: Reef Aquarium	Suggested Level: FOWLR Aquarium	Average Level: Coral Reefs
Specific Gravity	1.023 - 1.025	1.020 - 1.025	1.025
Temperature	72 - 78°F	72 - 78°F	82°F
pH	8.1 - 8.4	8.1 - 8.4	8.0 - 8.5
Alkalinity	8 - 12 dKH	8 - 12 dKH	6 - 8 dKH
Ammonia (NH3)	Undetectable	Undetectable	Near Zero
Nitrite (NO2)	Undetectable	Undetectable	Near Zero
Nitrate - Nitrogen (NO3)	< 1.0 ppm	< 30 ppm	0.25 ppm
Phosphate (PO4)	< 0.2 ppm	< 1.0 ppm	0.13 ppm
Calcium	350 - 450 ppm	350 - 450 ppm	380 - 420 ppm
Magnesium	1250 - 1350 ppm	1150 - 1350 ppm	1300 ppm
Iodine	0.06 - 0.10 ppm	0.04 - 0.10 ppm	0.06 ppm
Strontium	8 - 14 ppm	4 - 10 ppm	8 - 10 ppm

[Clown79]

30 minutes ago, seabass said:

Yes, it's highly hygroscopic.  That's been my experience as well; which is partially why I added the "Unless the salt got wet (or even exposed to high humidity) and precipitated" disclaimer.  It's a potential reason not to buy or like IO salt.  However, if the salt isn't clumping, I wouldn't think it'd be mixing to 6 dKH.

 

Disclosure: My last three salt purchases have been IO Reef Crystals (because it's basically acceptable and typically much cheaper than the more desirable options).

 

Instant Ocean:

Parameter	Suggested Level: Reef Aquarium	Suggested Level: FOWLR Aquarium	Average Level: Coral Reefs
Specific Gravity	1.023 - 1.025	1.020 - 1.025	1.025
Temperature	72 - 78°F	72 - 78°F	82°F
pH	8.1 - 8.4	8.1 - 8.4	8.0 - 8.5
Alkalinity	8 - 12 dKH	8 - 12 dKH	6 - 8 dKH
Ammonia (NH3)	Undetectable	Undetectable	Near Zero
Nitrite (NO2)	Undetectable	Undetectable	Near Zero
Nitrate - Nitrogen (NO3)	< 1.0 ppm	< 30 ppm	0.25 ppm
Phosphate (PO4)	< 0.2 ppm	< 1.0 ppm	0.13 ppm
Calcium	350 - 450 ppm	350 - 450 ppm	380 - 420 ppm
Magnesium	1250 - 1350 ppm	1150 - 1350 ppm	1300 ppm
Iodine	0.06 - 0.10 ppm	0.04 - 0.10 ppm	0.06 ppm
Strontium	8 - 14 ppm	4 - 10 ppm	8 - 10 ppm

I consider 8-12 quite a big variance for alk.

 

Not to mention that for some reason salts seems to mix with different parameters for everyone even when mixed at the exact same sg. Something i really don't understand why it happens.

 

Until the Op tests newly mixed salt water, we don't really know what the target level is because going by the package is not a guarantee.

[seabass]

1 minute ago, Clown79 said:

I consider 8-12 quite a big variance for alk.

Definitely.  The argument isn't that IO or Reef Crystals is or isn't a good salt mix, or that people should be buying it.  There are definitely better mixes on the market.  I just question that unless it's been exposed to moisture, a test result of 6 dKH seems unlikely.  I appreciate your feedback, but won't be further commenting on IO salt mix.

[Clown79]

Just now, seabass said:

Definitely.  The argument isn't that IO or Reef Crystals is or isn't a good salt mix, or that people should be buying it.  There are definitely better mixes on the market.  I just question that unless it's been exposed to moisture, a test result of 6 dKH seems unlikely.  I appreciate your feedback, but won't be further commenting on IO salt mix.

I didn't say the salt is a bad salt.

 

I gave my experiences with both of their salts. Thats my experience.

 

Isn't that the point of being on nano?

 

If anything people bash api kits and yet others have had pretty spot on results to the favoured brands.

 

Is the Ops tank reading 6 or newly mixed salt because that hasn't been clarified and that could determine if the issue is the salt, the test kit, consumption, or human error in testing.

[seabass]

1 minute ago, Clown79 said:

Is the Ops tank reading 6 or newly mixed salt because that hasn't been clarified and that could determine if the issue is the salt, the test kit, consumption, or human error in testing.

Yep, that would make most of this discussion irrelevant.

[Tired]

Don't buy another API kit to test, buy a better kit that's known to work properly.

[Edwardfish]

41 minutes ago, seabass said:

Definitely.  The argument isn't that IO or Reef Crystals is or isn't a good salt mix, or that people should be buying it.  There are definitely better mixes on the market.  I just question that unless it's been exposed to moisture, a test result of 6 dKH seems unlikely.  I appreciate your feedback, but won't be further commenting on IO salt mix.

The bad does have some clumping, that definitely makes more sense now... I didn’t know moisture could effect alk like that but I guess I learn something new. Also the bag probably isn’t exactly 13 to begin with. Is the salt still ok to use if it’s not the driest? Sorry for starting all this with out researching wet salts and alk but I guess I learned something new... still think the api it off tho

[seabass]

1 hour ago, Edwardfish said:

The batch does have some clumping, that definitely makes more sense now...  Is the salt still ok to use if it’s not the driest?

It's most likely that the precipitate won't just dissolve in water.  Some people have gotten around this by dosing CO2 into the water being mixed (to lower the pH and make the water more acidic), then they aerate out the CO2 to restore the pH.

 

TBH, it might be easier to just buy new salt.

[Murphs_Reef]

16 hours ago, Clown79 said:

I use to use the Api alk tester. I tested it against the big three.

 

These were the results

 

Api 9

Red Sea 8.8

Salifert 8.9

hanna 7.7( kit was defective so may be why it was so off)

 

I use Hanna because alk is the one thing I test frequently and hanna is so much faster than the rest of them.

 

When you say your reef crystals has an alk of 13, is that from testing or from the back of the packages alk number?

If the latter, that isn't always 100%. 

Yeah I'm happy with the alk API it's the phosphate that's out 

[Clown79]

6 minutes ago, Grimes said:

Yeah I'm happy with the alk API it's the phosphate that's out 

Oh ya, the phos kit for reefs is just not really helpful.

[Edwardfish]

Just got the Salifert kit and it read 7 for the tank and 8!for the salts so I guess my salts had gone bad and the api was a little off too. Ordered new salts I will make sure to keep completely dry.

[Abzdot]

On 7/30/2020 at 7:26 AM, Edwardfish said:

Starting up my new nano 20 long I made the mistake of using api as my test kit. This may be my  Noob mistake in testing but I was constantly testing alk at 6 which from what I know is a big no no. I’ve been looking all over to start dosing to raise this but then I remember my reef crystals have a alk of 13 so I think no way my corals used this much. I test the reef crystals at 6 too after mixing my salt and then begin to wonder how bad this test kit is, which is really bad I guess. Maybe I had a really bad batch of salts but I doubt this it the case considering my corals are thriving (to me...) decent color and growth and no algae out breaks. So I just wanted to conclude with I need a good recommendation for test kits. Is Salifert or Red Sea good for cal and alk, I find the api ok for nitrates and phosphate good as long as it’s a general not much-none.

I 100% agree with what you said! I hate API for their reef test kit, I use red sea coral pro salt and the calcium reading was at 450 but my kh was at 7 when it should be at 12! If you have a lot invested, at least get a decent test kit like salifert or red sea or if your feeling a bit good get a hanna

[A.m.P]

On 7/31/2020 at 4:29 PM, Edwardfish said:

Just got the Salifert kit and it read 7 for the tank and 8!for the salts so I guess my salts had gone bad and the api was a little off too. Ordered new salts I will make sure to keep completely dry.

If you're consistently off, I'm going to venture a guess that the discrepancy came from ease-of-use.
To reliably hit 6 I'm going to assume you may be titrating from one-drop and, in the process, accidentally losing around 1ml-total of liquid from the vial through the lid.

[Edwardfish]

1 hour ago, Amphrites said:

If you're consistently off, I'm going to venture a guess that the discrepancy came from ease-of-use.
To reliably hit 6 I'm going to assume you may be titrating from one-drop and, in the process, accidentally losing around 1ml-total of liquid from the vial through the lid.

That’s very possible that I’m losing some water I’ve also read closer to 5 dkh before