Looking for Return Pump Recommendations

[NSReefer902]

Hey All,

 

Ive been running my 75 G with no sump for about 10 months, everything has been going good, although I thought it was time to step it up, with summer coming and purchased a 48"x 20" x 20" sump. i am looking for recommendations on the return pump I should buy. i know the Jebao pumps are budget friendly, but i am concerned that spending $200 now doesn't make sense if i am going to spend $400-$500 in 6 months to a year. my question is, what is you recommendation and how important is it to have a quality adjustable pump? I am also looking for recommendations on a good HOB overflow.

 

Thanks!!!

[Mrod1!]

I know many reefers who are happy with their Jabeo. A good friend of mine has an acropora dominant 125 and he has run his Jabeo for years with no issues.  I decided to try and love my controllable Jabeo as quiet and works as advertised.  
 

only advice I got was get it rated one up and happy I save some money.  I always like to buy backup also on anything I can so this allowed me to buy 2 just in case.  

 

good luck on whatever you choose in the end 

[jservedio]

It's not important to have an adjustable return pump on your sump - it's just a nice to have. You can very easily calculate exactly how much flow a pump will have at a specific head height, and you want to aim for 5-10x turnover in your sump per hour, so no need to be able to adjust - you just buy the pump size that fits your needs. In terms of reliability, I've had a $20 Taam Rio pump running my sump for 7 years non-stop and it has never broken down and it only gets cleaned once every 2-3 years.

 

As for the HOB overflow - don't do it if you have no other possible alternative. I've been running my CPR Aquatics for 7 years and they are more trouble than they are worth. If you are running one, you need several backup systems and you have to test them regularly because they WILL fail and will fail fairly often (once or twice a year). On my HOB overflow I've got a one way valve on the siphon with two lifter pumps running in series to keep the siphon (because occasionally one will die or get clogged) and a float switch that will shut down my return pump if the DT gets too full. And I've got a water sensor on the floor below the tank so I'll at least get a text before my hardwood floors will be destroyed.

 

Even with all that, I STILL had an overflow onto my hardwood floors simply because I moved my MP10 ever so slightly. Over Christmas, my overflow lost partial siphon and my backup system worked. When my float switch shut down the return pump, the water level was high enough where with my slightly moved MP10, water could be pushed right over the rim. The cost of that mistake would have just paid for a brand new tank and stand.

[mcarroll]

On 4/1/2020 at 8:46 PM, NSReefer902 said:

Ive been running my 75 G with no sump for about 10 months, everything has been going good, although I thought it was time to step it up, with summer coming and purchased a 48"x 20" x 20" sump.

I'd have suggested remaining sump-less.  I don't see having a sump as an upgrade at all...just a different way of doing it.

 

On 4/1/2020 at 8:46 PM, NSReefer902 said:

what is you recommendation

I'd have suggested just running an in-tank skimmer like one of Tunze's "Comline" models....or possibly one of their Reefpacks.  

 

I run the reef pack 500, which includes skimmer, filter and ATO.

 

 

They also have the smaller 200 and 100 models, but they do not come with an ATO.

 

The 100 is strictly for nanos...not sure which of the other two would be the most ideal for the 75.

 

On 4/1/2020 at 8:46 PM, NSReefer902 said:

how important is it to have a quality adjustable pump?

Ask it differently:  How important is it to have a whole new set of ways (control electronics) for a pump to fail?

 

Check this out...

 

Chances are your 75 Gallon's rim is 4 or 5 feet above the water level of the sump.

 

A 75 gallon only needs about 4x of turnover per hour....(75x4=) 300 GPH.

 

I'd suggest a QuietOne 2200 ($50-$60) for that:

 

The QuietOne has a sweet warranty and the company (Lifeguard) is good to work with too.

 

Danner, Eheim, Sicce would be VERY VERY GOOD options too, but all are way more expensive if budget is tight.  (The QuietOne was designed by Sicce, BTW...same as their "Pro" series, which I'm not sure they make anymore.)

 

Use 1" PVC plumbing if possible....3/4" would be OK....but 1/2" would be pretty restrictive...like adding another foot or two of height on the tank.

 

On 4/1/2020 at 8:46 PM, NSReefer902 said:

I am also looking for recommendations on a good HOB overflow.

Aqueon or ProClear are the only ones that I know of that are still making traditional overflows that I would trust.  

 

(I don't trust other types of overflow.  I don't trust other makes.)

 

Pro Clear:

https://www.championlighting.com/pro-clear-aquatics-single-prefilter-overflow-box.html

 

Aqueon:

https://www.marineandreef.com/Aqueon_ProFlex_Hang_On_Overflow_Box_Model_220_p/res34509.htm

 

If you decide to go with overflows vs the Reefpack system, make sure you do about 15 power-off tests once your overflow is installed to make sure it will hold its siphon and restart with perfection.  

 

A defect in the U-tube can break the siphon, which can cause an overflow if the return pump kicks on while in this state.  BUT....if you test it and it works...then it should be very bulletproof.  

 

The only weakness is in two-parts....if flow levels are low AND the tank has lots of bubbles for any reason, then bubbles may collect at the top of the U-tube and eventually, when enough accumulate, can cause a siphon break.  There's no good reason for a tank to have bubbles in it like that, but stuff happens.  Be aware of the state of your U-tubes and you'll be fine.  

 

For what it's worth, I had 10+ years using traditional overflows like this on my last tank setup....and almost 20 years on the setup before that.  Zero floods...almost no incidents.  (30+ years would be impossibly long to have no incidents at all....but never a drop on the floor.)

 

Ultimately (as mentioned) I chose to simplify my setup when I consolidated my old system in to one larger tank (125 Gallons) last year and designed it as an "all in one" using a Tunze Reefpack 500.

[mcarroll]

On 4/2/2020 at 8:43 AM, jservedio said:

I've been running my CPR Aquatics

A bad design...can't believe they've never done a re-design.  Swap for one of the ones mentioned and I'll bet a nickel that those problems you mentioned evaporate.

 

On 4/2/2020 at 8:43 AM, jservedio said:

with two lifter pumps running in series to keep the siphon (because occasionally one will die or get clogged)

Also junk – I've got a pile of them.  Use a regular pump with a threaded outlet with an airline adapter fitting (drip irrigation fitting).

 

Sorry to hear about all the damage...IMO, CPR should pay you for the troubles AND for all that crazy backup gear you need to keep it running.  What a crazy setup!!!  I couldn't ditch something like that fast enough.  👍

 

 

[jservedio]

4 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Also junk – I've got a pile of them.  Use a regular pump with a threaded outlet with an airline adapter fitting (drip irrigation fitting).

 

Sorry to hear about all the damage...IMO, CPR should pay you for the troubles AND for all that crazy backup gear you need to keep it running.  What a crazy setup!!!  I couldn't ditch something like that fast enough.  👍

 

 

Can't use a regular pump with the CPR, you need to be able to generate a decent amount of vacuum to keep the siphon channel free of air and a regular pump just doesn't do that anywhere close to well enough. Unfortunately, an aqualifter or another style of diaphragm or peristaltic pump is what you have to use. A peristaltic is just too expensive to run 24/7. This is something I've spent an inordinate amount of time on.

 

Have you ever used a u-tube design HOB overflow for an extended period of time? A huge issue with any HOB overflow is microbubbles which get trapped at the top of the u-tubes if you run a skimmer. Algae, sponges, vermetids, feather dusters, asterinas, etc. all start clogging those up and over time, they build up and you slowly (hopefully slowly...) lose siphon. The CPR is a terrible design and unreliable as hell, but for long term, low maintenance use, it's really the best since the "u tube" is a 6" wide channel that can't be clogged.

 

The simple fact is there is absolutely no entirely reliable HOB overflow system - all of them will fail, that's a certainty. The only correct choice is to not use an HOB overflow - they are just bad. I'm ditching it for an internal come this fall.

[mcarroll]

21 hours ago, jservedio said:

Can't use a regular pump with the CPR

I wasn't suggesting a way to sustain that crappy overflow.  😉 

 

I meant as a way to use a regular pump to run the ATO so you wouldn't need the Aqualifter...my meaning prolly wasn't initially so clear when I typed it.  😉

 

21 hours ago, jservedio said:

Have you ever used a u-tube design HOB overflow for an extended period of time?

I had two posts in a row (sorry, bad planning), you might've missed this....

On 4/30/2020 at 4:02 AM, mcarroll said:

For what it's worth, I had 10+ years using traditional overflows like this on my last tank setup....and almost 20 years on the setup before that.  Zero floods...almost no incidents.  (30+ years would be impossibly long to have no incidents at all....but never a drop on the floor.)

 

21 hours ago, jservedio said:

6" wide channel that can't be clogged.

 

That is not its saving grace; that is its Achilles heal....the exact reason for all the siphon breaks.  At least IMO.

 

Time to let that CPR go.  Cut losses.  Anything is better.  😉 

 

You could even consider ditching the sump altogether and going all in one – I did that with a Tunze Reefpack 500 on my 125 Gallon. 👍👍

 

K.I.S.S.   Simpler is better.   All that...

 

21 hours ago, jservedio said:

Algae, sponges, vermetids, feather dusters, asterinas, etc. all start clogging those up and over time, they build up and you slowly (hopefully slowly...) lose siphon.

If you're actually experiencing that in your tank (vs worrying about it from reading) then simply replace the U-tubes periodically or given them a periodic soak in a citric acid bath. 

 

Solvable. 👍

 

21 hours ago, jservedio said:

The simple fact is there is absolutely no entirely reliable HOB overflow system - all of them will fail, that's a certainty. The only correct choice is to not use an HOB overflow - they are just bad.

Well, I agree in the sense that everything fails sooner or later.  I also wouldn't claim them to be foolproof.  But none of that is particular to HOB overflows.

 

Why don't I have 30 years of disasters to talk about?  I know it's not because I'm some kind of overflow-magician.  😉  🤷‍♂️  

 

If you were to ask me, CPR's gave HOB overflows most of their bad name.

 

I'm not a fan of HOB overflows per se.  They are just a tool for a job, so I'm neutral.  But they have served me very well over a long period of time... I can't deny it.