Miracle Mud substitute?

[reefguru21]

I'm getting ready to set-up a Mud filtration system is there a less expensive that does the same job of Ecosystems- Miracle Mud. I was told of a product but can't remeber what it is. Any help would be greatly appriciated

Thanks Always:)

[kimura]

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I've seen it at http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...d=6&pCatId=8124 . It's called M2 Substrates from Drs Fosters and Smith website. Other than that, it's all i've ran across.

 

Good luck, and let us know how that works for you.

[Jefe12234]

This is one product I really don't see the need for. As I understand it, Miracle Mud is supposed to add trace elements to the tank. But one of the most recent studies presented in the last issue of Reefkeeping magazine, shows how concentrated these "trace" elements are in the average aquarium. It's thought that their buildup may even be the cause of old tank syndrome. I'm not necessarily agreeing with that, but the fact is that many trace elements are already much more concentrated in our tanks than in natural seawater. I don't see how further concentrating them could do any good. If you're worried about macroalgae growth, add a little iron. That's one of the few elements that was found to be deficient in aquaria.

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-08/rs/f...ature/index.htm

 

As for your actual question, I couldn't tell you where to find a substitute since I've never searched for a product like this.

 

-Chris

[Dave ESPI]

Old tank syndrome?

thats a new one on me.... Please explain, so I may become Learned.... ???

[flaunt]

i think jefe may be referring to where things just begin dying in old tanks... i've heard of it but i've never seen it happen since i'm pretty new to saltwater, but i thought it had something to do with copper buildup rather than trace elements. other people would know more about this than i do i'm sure.

[tinyreef]

OTS aka LAS (Lazy Ass Syndrome).

 

imo if you keep doing your periodic maintenance (the big pain in the butt ones) you'll avoid contracting this disease. i had it once and like chicken pox it's unlikely i'll get it again. (you never know though, i am a lazy ass! : )

[Toyfreek]

OTS,

Long Time culprit of the 10 and over club.

Basically after 4 to five years many experienced Reef keepers see a sudden decline in tank inhabitants. Water tests fine, schedule has not changed, no recent additions etc. many people have subjugated that the cause was our salt mixes weren't sufficient and trace element depletion was to blame but no-one knew what the element in the depilatory state was.

Recently, Dr. Ron Shimek (Who now mods a board at Reef Central)

Has made a smallish scientific study of about twenty established well run reef tanks at the owners expense. The results of these tests were if I remember correctly, That heavy metals and other toxins build up in our substrate over time and cannot be removed. These toxins/metals are often imported through the use of trace element dosing, prepared foods, and the elements in our salt mixes. I believe this to be true in my experience as a Reef keeper, and in the tanks I service as well. I never dose anything other than kalkwasser and I make my own foods to avoid this problem. In the case of the tank's I service prepared foods are often used if the owner is lazy but I do discourage it.

I have shown the Reef Keeping articles to most of my reef clients (the ones I think would care anyway) and most have started keeping a separate blender in the house

On a side note if you do decide to read the articles by Dr. Ron I'm sure you will be shocked (as I was) at the levels shown some are at nearly toxic levels in 3 year old tanks :x :x :x while others are thousands of times NSW after only like a year or so.

Makes ya think huh?

Toy

[cirionrc]

Old tank syndrome is as follows:

 

1. Tank lives longer than owner-tank dies

2. From the start to years of having a tank, there is a big chance that your cat takes a dump in it, bottle of old english or other cleaning misc. gets knocked into tank by person or cat.

3. Earthquake knocks tank over, tornado, or nuclear blast, etc.....

4. Drive-by shooting crossfire shatters tank when at work.

5. Fish get old and die or terrorist pollute all water with anthrax.

6. Wife or exwife gets revenge and cooks fish and breaks tank.

7. Wife unplugs powerstrip to everything to use plug to vacuum while your on vacation and does plug back in.

8. No matter what, your tank and fish will die and no longer exist sometime from now and a billion years. So everybody will get this syndrome.

 

Old tank syndrome

[reefguru21]

Wow I did not know that is was a diverse topic.

To my understanding Miracle Mud doesn't add trace elements tot the system, it simply is used to enrich the area that the caulerpa and denitrafying bactericas grow. I got the idea after seeing the store, Saltwter City in St.Louis I saw marine life growing and thriving in the display aquarium I had never seen (healthy) in captivity. So I figured they must be dooing something right. I was given a tour of the filtration system used by the store, in was the Eco-system method. The ecology sounds simlle but correct in every way. I thought of buliding my own DIY eco-system stlye sump. If any one has a better or alternate opinion I would be most appricitive. Thanks for any and all help in this area.

[Paul G]

Kent have got a product called Marine Biosediment that I've seen in an advert recently - don't know how it compares with Miracle Mud though.

[Jefe12234]

I didn't mean to debate the merits of OTS, just to point out that trace elements are already heavily concentrated in our tanks. If you go to the Ecosystem Aquarium website, they specifically say:

Miracle  Mud will continually replenish your aquarium's concentration of trace  elements and minerals to  create an ideal environment.

That's why I wouldn't use it. If you want a filtration sytem, you can still use a refugium with macroalgae. That's what I use on my 40 gallon. Along with a DSB, it keeps my water clean with no skimmer, carbon, or anything else.

 

Anyways, I'm not trying to bash a product. I'm just pointing out the fact that it may be a complete waste of money. (Ok, I'm bashing it.)

 

-Chris

[mxpro32]

so let me get this strait.... most people on here have been giveng me and others crap for running carbon and skimmers because they remove trace elements... and now it turns out that our "trace" elements are building up to toxic levels?? so do you guys retract your statements that carbon and skimmers are bad? i have been running carbon non stop in my nano and a skimmer for about 4 months and everything is doing great in my tank.

[Jefe12234]

I don't know how much effect skimmers and carbon have on trace elements. The reason I don't like them is because they remove a lot of the planktonic food sources that are beneficial for a reef tank. If they do remove trace elements, I think that would be a good thing.

 

-Chris