spinning upside down fire fish

[Crys]

Hi I just got a new fire fish.  He kind of flicked a bit the first day.  I figured it was just stress.  (I did acclimate him)  2 days later he has difficulty swimming. He can't stay upright, or spins when he tries to swim.  The clowns are not being nice.  I'm worried it could be catchy and I don't have another tank to quarantine.  Can salt water fish get whirling disease?  

 

Thanks for your help

[Tired]

Sounds like a swim bladder issue. You need to separate him from the clowns in the least stressful way possible, or they'll likely bully him to death. 

 

Tank size, tankmates, and water parameters? 

[Crys]

I have a 13.5 gal

2 clowns

tail spot blenny

hermit crabs

snails

peppermint shrimp

emerald crab

 

Salt , nitrates, nitrates, ph, ammonia good

 

 

[Crys]

Is the flicking a normal behavior in fire fish? I know the spinning isn't.  The clowns have not been nice since I added him to the tank.  They were fine when I added the tail spot.   I have only had a salt water tank for 11 months.  I also have a cold water tank and a tropical, but have found saltwater tanks are a whole new ball game.

[Tired]

Dorsal fin flicking is normal. 

 

You should really take that fish out. It's possible it's been injured by the clowns attacking it. Firefish are a very timid fish, and timid fish should be added BEFORE bullies like clowns. Your clowns may also be sexually maturing, and as such will become more territorial and may stop putting up with the blenny. The emerald crab is also a potential threat to it, those are safer than other crabs but are still iffy.

[Crys]

So I'm thinking it's the clowns, especially if the dorsal fin flicking is normal. (it reminded me of neon tetra disease)  Since the whirling just started today I'm guessing he's under extreme stress.  Right now he is hiding under the dragons breath algae.  I will try and find a way to keep him safe, but I don't have another set up and I live 2 hours from the LFS so can't take him back right away.  I told the LFS the size of my tank and the fish I had, maybe I just have mean fish.  Although they sold me a double star fish and said it won't get much bigger than 2.5 inches.  That's what I get for being too excited when I go to the store.   I forgot to mention the new star fish when I gave my list of inhabitants.  My emerald has a nice calm personality.  It doesn't even acknowledge that fish live in the tank.

[Tired]

All clownfish are mean. They're damselfish, and territorial. Isolate your firefish in a breeder box, net, or tupperware with holes in it- anything suspended in the tank so that it gets water flow, but the clowns can't reach him. Give him a place to hide in there and he should be okay. 

 

Also, stop trusting your LFS. Those starfish starve to death in all but huge tanks, and get to more like 4". You'll want to return that as well, being careful not to expose it to air- I'm not sure if that's one of the ones that can't stand being exposed at all. 

 

Emerald crabs are known to occasionally take advantage when they encounter a sleeping fish at night. You don't often see them doing anything during the day. Same for some hermit species.

 

Keep an eye on your blenny. He may be fine with the clowns, but he may not. I wouldn't get any more fish, both due to bio-load and due to your clowns. 

 

Oh, and it's likely not the problem, but "good" isn't parameters. Actual parameters are what's needed here. 

[RedCrow]

Damselfish are the cichlids of the ocean. If you have experience with those, that’s what you can expect from your clownfish 

[Crys]

After your email, I went to go check on the little guy and put him in a breeder box and he was dead.  I took a picture and hopefully I will get a refund or store credit.  I realize it is a case of more research needed.  I hadn't realized fire fish were so docile or that clownfish were so nasty.  In retrospect I wish I hadn't bought the clowns, although they are nice their are much more interesting fish.  The fire fish had a delightful array of colours, (not a typo I live in Canada) and the blenny has loads of personality.  Thank you for your help.  

PS 😀.

NO3 5

NO2 0

ph 7.9 (I know it's a bit low but figure it is better to leave it alone than have it fluctuate)

salinity 1.025

temp 78.5

I don't test for anything else currently.  

[Crys]

I have never had cichlids but I do have fresh water pea puffers.  Those little guys could take down a mystery snail 10 times their size.  

[Tired]

Oh, that's too bad. 

 

One thought- how did you acclimate? Could it have been osmotic shock? 

[Clown79]

It may have been aggression from the clowns. Have they been nipping, slamming, hurting the firefish or just charging/chasing?

 

It could also be an illness, it depends on its exact body movement. Firefish do a weird twitch but the other behaviour isn't normal.

 

Fish are like us, not all the same.

Liveaquaria.com has a decent compatibility chart.

 

Each fish have different personalities so its hit and miss knowing how they will react. I've had "aggressive" fish that are nice and "peaceful" fish that were murderous. 

 

I have had clownfish that are mean and ones not at all.

 

My 2 have been model citizens with any new additions. They are 5 yrs old and were the first additions in the tank.

 

 

My other clown which was an extremely nice fish has only been semi aggressive with the newest addition in that tank but best buds with the blenny.

 

I've also had to rehome other clownfish because they were just too mean.

 

 

[Crys]

I saw them nipping at the fish.  At that point I turned off the light so they would settle down.  So far this is the only fish they have ever bothered, maybe because it swims at their water level.  I'm sorry I couldn't save it in time.  He was very beautiful and I sure didn't want to buy him just to have him die.   I won't try another one my little blenny just watch with his big eyes.  I did have a bi-coloured blenny that was so aggressive I had to give him back to the store.  He would attack everything, even the snails.  When the narcissus snail came above the sand the blenny would ram into it and sent it tumbling across the tank.  My LFS said I could have 5 fish in my 13.5 gallon but I think I should just stick with what I have now.

 

Thanks for the help

[Clown79]

11 minutes ago, Crys said:

I saw them nipping at the fish.  At that point I turned off the light so they would settle down.  So far this is the only fish they have ever bothered, maybe because it swims at their water level.  I'm sorry I couldn't save it in time.  He was very beautiful and I sure didn't want to buy him just to have him die.   I won't try another one my little blenny just watch with his big eyes.  I did have a bi-coloured blenny that was so aggressive I had to give him back to the store.  He would attack everything, even the snails.  When the narcissus snail came above the sand the blenny would ram into it and sent it tumbling across the tank.  My LFS said I could have 5 fish in my 13.5 gallon but I think I should just stick with what I have now.

 

Thanks for the help

5 fish in that size of tank is not recommended unless they were all 5 tiny fish.

 

2 clowns and a blenny would be what most hobbyists would say is the limit.

 

The firefish and blenny may have ended up having issues as well as they are similarly shaped.

 

 

[Crys]

so much to learn, and I have learned I can't rely on the LFS    I hope the star fish I just bought doesn't starve

[Clown79]

29 minutes ago, Crys said:

so much to learn, and I have learned I can't rely on the LFS    I hope the star fish I just bought doesn't starve

Not all LFS are bad but a lot will sell items they shouldn't and often provide misleading info.

 

I have seen it occur and as well had it happen to me. 

 

Always check and verify anything they advise. 

 

Don't feel like you are alone in this.

 

 

[Tired]

Your starfish is not going to survive in a new tank that small. You need to rehome it. 

[Clown79]

3 minutes ago, Tired said:

Your starfish is not going to survive in a new tank that small. You need to rehome it. 

Ya, they shouldn't even be sold in stores since its extremely hard to provide them the food they need, requiring supplemental feedings(if they take to that).

[Crys]

The store told me that it would eat algae, so what should I supplement it with until I  can return it.   I don't live near the city so it may be a couple of weeks before I get back there.  

[Tired]

You can try placing it on top of frozen foods, but it most likely won't eat it. They eat algae, yes, but also the bacterial bio-film that grows on everything, and they eat way more of it than a small tank can produce. They need a huge tank to have any hope of finding enough food. 

 

The vast majority of starfish do not do well in the hobby. Brittle and serpent stars generally do fine, but some are fish-eaters, and they don't have the "classic" starfish shape. The only star-shaped starfish you could keep in your tank would be asterinas, which can, if the tank is overfed, multiply to plague proportions. They're largely harmless, though, and scavenge off of detritus and the like. There's a larger, mottled species that sometimes goes after zoas, but the smaller, paler, more common ones are detritivores. 

[Crys]

Thanks for all your help.  I will try and get him back to the LFS asap. He is moving around lots right now getting what ever is in the tank, but will try some spot feeding as well.  I don't think I will add anything else to my tank for at least a year.  That way I can learn more and my tank can mature more.  

 

Thanks again

[Tired]

That's a good plan. If you've got the lighting for it, you'd probably be fine adding a couple of easy corals like zoas, but holding off on moving creatures is probably best. Keep an eye on your clowns as they mature, in particular, see what they do.