Flukes - do I freshwater dip or just treat?

[paulsz]

Hi all,

 

I have a 40 g tank. Two fish in it ATM (yellow clown goby and bicolor blenny). Had a third fish but about a month ago it died of flukes. It stopped eating and after a few weeks it passed. It looked to have flukes, as it was twitching and chilling in the corner a lot. Lost its appetite and starved from there (I think). 

 

I live in Canada, so we can't really get fish meds anymore 😞 unless we go to a vet and get a prescription. But I did have some prazipro and did two doses, 5 days apart (this was back when my fish was still alive).

 

Now I noticed that my bicolor blenny is scratching against the rock and twitching at times. I have a feeling it's flukes. They must have not died fully last time...

 

About two weeks ago, my blenny became very picky with food. And less and less interested with time. Today, it must've gotten real hungry because it ate whatever I put in the tank and I noticed it grazing on the glass and rocks too. However, I still want to treat for flukes again. 

 

Should I freshwater dip the blenny first? It'll be almost impossible to catch, and he hides in the rock and won't come out for a while. Can I just treat the tank, the same way I did last time? Maybe 3-4 treatments this time, each 5-7 days apart?

 

[FISHnChix]

@Humblefish well why i know nothing about flukes if you click on humbles name and search for content he goes over TONS of info in all sorts of treatments for diseases/parasites..  I know I read at least one on flukes.. good luck

[Humblefish]

Here is the sticky on flukes, originally written by Newsmyrna80: https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/402275-flukes-fish-disease-information/

 

Unless you go fallow for 4 weeks, you must treat the tank the fish are in using Prazipro. This is because some of the fluke eggs will invariably fall off/out of the fish and hatch inside the aquarium.

 

Instead of redosing after 5 days, use this treatment calendar to determine when is the best time to add the second dose: http://www.marineparasites.com/paratreatmentcal.html

[paulsz]

Thanks for the help!

 

And thanks for that calculator. Didn't know such a thing existed. Very helpful!

[mcarroll]

lt's weird for these things to be more than a minor irritant.  

 

I've seen it supposed that they may even be commensal.

 

The fact that they were deadly in your case is in contrast with both of those points.

 

Here's a quote on

monogean flatworms from Noga's "Fish Disease..." book:

Quote

Heavy monogenean infestations are usually indicators of poor sanitation and deteriorating water quality (e.g., overcrowding, high ammonia or nitrite, organic pollution, or low oxygen). They can rapidly reproduce under such conditions. The doubling time for viviparous monogeneans can be as little as 24 hours.

and

Quote

Monogeneans may be present in low numbers without causing disease; for example, the presence of a single parasite in a skin scraping or gill clip of a 10 cm long fish would not be compatible with a history of mortalities in a fish population, and thus, other causes should be sought under those circumstances.

and

Quote

Biological control may be feasible, especially in tropical marine aquaria, since cleaner fish, such as French angel- fish, neon gobies, and blue-lined cleaner wrasse, pick monogeneans off other fish (Moe 1992a; Grutter et al. 2002).

I'd suppose that cleaner shrimp would also be good additions.

 

The eggs (if you have egg-layers) are reportedly large and easy to filter out as well with a sub-80-micron filter....(sock; polishing filter; diatom filter; etc)

 

They also supposedly won't survive more than 2 weeks without a fish host (same reference), for what it's worth.

 

So if your tank is already nicely matured and full of diverse microbial life, a freshwater dip to knock off the adults from a new purchase may be all you need to do vs flatworms.  They are very susceptible to fresh water, and eggs they may drop would be in the freshwater dip.  (not all flatworms even lay eggs..many are live bearers)

 

In the case of a less mature tank (new reef, QT or hospital tank, etc), a fresh water dip and QT period would be a good idea...see the general treatment link posted earlier for further advice as needed.

 

In my opinion these guys are not a cause for alarm per se, but they do indicate there is cause for concern with the tank itself and possibly for the original source of these fish.  

 

Mostly, your experience is just a good illustration of why giving your fish a freshwater dip is an excellent idea before introducing them to the aquarium.

 

For better or worse chemically-assisted quarantine is the only thing that gets much hype…

 

In spite of that, many people still do not quarantine because it's not possible for them, or for another reason.

 

A freshwater dip is simple, takes only a little time, and would be possible for almost anyone.  

 

Even someone that can't/won't quarantine.  

 

And doing one goes a long way toward removing and or reducing the number of many questionable microbes your fish can transmit into the display aquarium.

[mcarroll]

(That book is not too cheap by the way, but I would highly recommend it to anyone keeping fish.)

[paulsz]

6 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Heavy monogenean infestations are usually indicators of poor sanitation and deteriorating water quality

I'll admit that I do very little water changes. I have battled dinos in the last year and so I cut off water changes in an effort to promote algae growth. I would dose as needed and even had to dose phosphates and nitrates as my bioload is really small (at the time it was just the yellow clown goby in a 40G). 

 

My battle with dinos ended a few months ago (I'd say like April 2019). With that said, I still have a very small bioload and my nitrates stay at 2.5ppm, phosphates at 0.018ppm without me changing any water. Should I go back to weekly water changes? It may end up with me having to re-dose nitrates/phopsphates which I don't have any issue doing.

[mcarroll]

Personally I kept the policy of doing water changes as-needed:  if either alk or nutrient levels warranted it.  

 

 

Doesn't seem to be any call for them in your case....and you're correct to worry about dropping nutrient levels too far.

 

If things are happy as-is (super-low levels), but you wanted to do a water change for some other reason, I'd strongly consider amending the water change water with phosphates at the same concentration as the reef tank so the water change has no effect on that.  Arguably you could amend with nitrate too, but that isn't usually as crucial as phosphate.

 

[paulsz]

interesting way of going about it. I'll keep that in mind if i decide to do a WC. 

 

All of a sudden this bicolor blenny got his full appetite back. A little picky with some of the stuff he used to eat. But he ate as much algae pellets as I'd ever seen him eat last night. 

 

I'll keep a closer eye before treating. Will wait to see if the flashing/scratching keeps occuring. 

[mcarroll]

Try to switch from using dry foods to frozen or live.  Try to use at least some frozen or live if a total switch isn't possible.  Fish eggs are an excellent option (one of many) if you can find them fresh or frozen.  Do you know what's available locally?  Can I assume you have good LFS's as well as at least one local fresh fish market?

 

I've done about two or three 50% water changes on my 100G system (now 125G) over the last five or six years....you can definitely get away with skipping some more.  😉

 

My system has been running for a little more than ten years now and I will admit that my tank and corals have never done better than when I was doing regular water changes.   

 

A few years back I did an experiment for almost a year of doing a 5% water change every day.   Very easy and fast to do (only changing water, not doing any real "cleaning").  I could do everything from setup to cleanup in 10 minutes.  (Eventually I didn't even have that 10 minutes.)

[paulsz]

I have a few good LFS. Most will sell frozen, but I'd have to drive a good 45 mins to get some fresh food. I have mysis and it's either hit or miss (depending on the day). I would feed it once or twice a week. I will give something else a try soon.