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ConnorD42

I switched to a Canister Filter

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ConnorD42
Posted (edited)

[Ex I want to switch to a canister filter]

Hey everyone, I'm wanting to switch from a HOB to a canister filter and I'm wondering for a 20 gallon what size to get. I was looking primarily at the Cascade 700/1000 filters which are 185/265gph respectively. Can I expect that coming from the nozzle in the tank?? Or am I loosing half (ish) of that to gravity?? Just looking for a little clarification on that before I go and pull the trigger on anything. Thanks!

 

Hey all, I switched to a canister filter on my 20 gallon reef tank. I decided to go with a cascade 1000 because college budget. I want to allow others that wanted to see what happens the ability to follow along over the course of the next year. 

Starting June 17th until early December I'm going on co-op rotation in industry for school, so updating might become slightly more on the difficult side but I plan on travelling home relatively often. So at the very least the updates might be a little late. (I would take the tank with me, but I refuse to stress my babies that badly. So dad will keep an eye on the tank)

Follow  for monthly(?) updates

Edited by ConnorD42
I wanted to allow people that were curious about the results of switching filters to follow updates as they come

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Joevember

Always go as big as you can on any filtration. The more water in a system the better. Plus you can put more filtration material in there.

As for the flow, it depends on a few factors. How far the water has to travel up to reach the tank, how much filter material you have, how tightly you pack your filter can all affect the pressure your pump puts out. The rating is how much it can pump in optimal conditions. It won't be 185/265gph when it returns to your tank.

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Matteo

Idk what budget looks like but the fluval canisters are awesome. Rocking one on my heavily stocked freshwater tank. Granted I would replace any ribbed hosing with just regular. Very easy for stuff to get all caught up in the ribbed grooves. 

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Variant

One piece of advice if you use a canister filter is to get one of those glass inflow lilly pipes that also skim the surface.

 

One of my biggest complaints with these types of filters is that it doesnt adequately get rid of the oil and surface skum that accumulates on the water's surface. 

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Clown79

Another piece of advice, prepare to clean it regularly so it doesn't become a nutrient issue

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Matteo
23 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Another piece of advice, prepare to clean it regularly so it doesn't become a nutrient issue

^^^ for sure. Hence ribbed hosing may not be good 

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Naekuh

also prepare fresh salt water everytime you clean the canister, because when you reprime that sucker, your going to empty your DT in your nano.  

 

My recommendation for canisters have always been Ehiem Classic series.

They are about the easiest things to clean, and about the most efficient canisters i have ever used.

I have heard good things about fluval 400 series, and i really wanted to try out a fluval G series as well, as i hear those are easy as heck to clean, but the price tag on it is like MEH... id rather use that money on a beefier protein skimmer for marine environments. 

 

But like clown states, you want something you can clean and maintain really quickly and without breaking your back each time. 

That would most likely be the ehiem because if your super lazy, you can just pack it up with filter floss or cut a pad to circle since its a cylinder, and TOSS it out each maintenance. 

 

Have you tried out a Seachem Tidal HOB? 

These are beasts, and easy as hell to clean, and also skims the surface. 

I would rather run a Tidal then a Canister on a Salt water tank because of nutrient issues.  

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Clown79
10 hours ago, Naekuh said:

also prepare fresh salt water everytime you clean the canister, because when you reprime that sucker, your going to empty your DT in your nano.  

 

My recommendation for canisters have always been Ehiem Classic series.

They are about the easiest things to clean, and about the most efficient canisters i have ever used.

I have heard good things about fluval 400 series, and i really wanted to try out a fluval G series as well, as i hear those are easy as heck to clean, but the price tag on it is like MEH... id rather use that money on a beefier protein skimmer for marine environments. 

 

But like clown states, you want something you can clean and maintain really quickly and without breaking your back each time. 

That would most likely be the ehiem because if your super lazy, you can just pack it up with filter floss or cut a pad to circle since its a cylinder, and TOSS it out each maintenance. 

 

Have you tried out a Seachem Tidal HOB? 

These are beasts, and easy as hell to clean, and also skims the surface. 

I would rather run a Tidal then a Canister on a Salt water tank because of nutrient issues.  

The tidal is an awesome hob!

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ConnorD42

I went ahead with it, smooth hoses not ribbed, I was also looking for something that would increase water volume slightly (even though the tank is really stable and the only things that I really have to check multiple times a week to ensure no fluctuation is calcium and alkalinity) I'm happy with it 1 day later and it doesn't seem like maintenance should be a huge issue (and i'm loaded up on filter floss lol) I want to add biomax or marine pure block at some point in the near future to increase the biological filtration in the tank as well. I'll update a little later, but there's not water all over the floor so that's a plus for sure!

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Naekuh

well from my research i have done, people have used canisters as a secondary method of water change on nanos.

When you need to clean out the canister, your also changin the vol. of water inside the canister.

 

I guess u can probably see if you can go a week between maintenance, however i would not extend it past that like you would in fresh water, because once u start getting an algae bloom its a run away equilibrium issue, and the longer you put it off, the double the time it will take for your system to go back to stable.  

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Variant

A quick tip/suggestion to make maintenance easier on your tank when running a canister filter:

  • add quick connect/disconnect fittings to allow you to isolate your canister so you can maintain it at a sink, away from the tank
  • add a Y fitting on one or both lines going to the canister filter with valves. This is helpful if you decide that you want to change more tank water than what was originally in your canister. Then you can utilize the siphon that's already there to just drain water out.
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ConnorD42
3 hours ago, Naekuh said:

well from my research i have done, people have used canisters as a secondary method of water change on nanos.

When you need to clean out the canister, your also changin the vol. of water inside the canister.

 

I guess u can probably see if you can go a week between maintenance, however i would not extend it past that like you would in fresh water, because once u start getting an algae bloom its a run away equilibrium issue, and the longer you put it off, the double the time it will take for your system to go back to stable.  

I mean minus dusting off coral and live rock, cleaning the glass, etc I normally go 2 weeks in between water changes if the tank needs it and it stayed under control with a hob, are you talking about regular maintenance?? I'm just trying to make sure I understand what you're saying correctly.

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ConnorD42
2 hours ago, Variant said:

A quick tip/suggestion to make maintenance easier on your tank when running a canister filter:

  • add quick connect/disconnect fittings to allow you to isolate your canister so you can maintain it at a sink, away from the tank
  • add a Y fitting on one or both lines going to the canister filter with valves. This is helpful if you decide that you want to change more tank water than what was originally in your canister. Then you can utilize the siphon that's already there to just drain water out.

ooooh I didn't think about adding valves, that's a good one. 

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burtbollinger

why? increased water volume is an odd reason to go with something that you couldnt pay me to use.

for the sake of collective knowledge, please update this thread in 12 months on if this turned out to be a good decision.

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Matteo
7 minutes ago, burtbollinger said:

why? increased water volume is an odd reason to go with something that you couldnt pay me to use.

for the sake of collective knowledge, please update this thread in 12 months on if this turned out to be a good decision.

I mean if they clean their filter with every water change I don't see a problem. 

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hotdrop

I don’t really see why canisters can’t be brought back now that we know how to scrub nitrates and phosphate with Algee. A turf scrubber or reactor should make it possible to run much longer before filter changes. 

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ConnorD42
30 minutes ago, OverCookedRock said:

I mean if they clean their filter with every water change I don't see a problem. 

which I do

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Matteo
Just now, ConnorD42 said:

which I do

I figured. Redsea owners are just stuck in their fancy ways 😉😂

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ConnorD42
38 minutes ago, burtbollinger said:

why? increased water volume is an odd reason to go with something that you couldnt pay me to use.

for the sake of collective knowledge, please update this thread in 12 months on if this turned out to be a good decision.

Gladly! 

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Naekuh
1 hour ago, ConnorD42 said:

I mean minus dusting off coral and live rock, cleaning the glass, etc I normally go 2 weeks in between water changes if the tank needs it and it stayed under control with a hob, are you talking about regular maintenance?? I'm just trying to make sure I understand what you're saying correctly.

no because what happens is as poop and other detritus gets stuck in the canister, it starts to generate nitrite, which then turns into nitrate. 

In a fresh water you ideally have plants, or something which will eat that nitrate into something useful.  

 

In salt unless your running copious amount of macro algae which first off is sort of difficult since corals are also in competition for CO2, you will not have the amount of nitrates being exported. Hence the more simlistic form of nuances called Hair Algae explodes. 

 

This is why u need to clean out that filter floss regularly, and not let it build up. Hence why everyone calls it a nitrate factory.  

 

This is why in a freshwater system, especially ones which are high tech injecting CO2, they can go months without maintenance. 

 

And yes you can scrub those nitrates with algae scrubbers and such, however algae scrubbers are a different form of EQ, you could also scrub the nitrate in a cheato reactor as well, and other things, but thats where costs come in. 

 

I guess if u inline the canister to a cheato reactor it could work out nice, but it wont beat the simplistic route of a hob where u just open the basket, rinse and put back.  

 

Also the added vol, from a canister IMO is not really worth it.

Its nowhere near the vol. of a sump your thinking, which that could help stability.  

 

Well if you ask me, i will use a canister in summer, but it will be connected to my sump.

I need that canister to run my chiller. The canister will just act as a pump, and only be loaded with filter floss so i dont get nasty stuff in the liquid to liquid exchanger. 

I will probably need to change out the floss weekly.

But once summer goes away again, i will remove it along with my chiller.  

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blasterman

I've used cannisters for water polishing over the years, but really don't get their need on salt water tanks other than bare bottom. Maybe to stuff them full of carbon or chemi pure to remove something bad in an emergency, but as a general use filter I don't get it.

 

Bare bottom tanks can be a problem keeping water clear because there's nothing to suspend visible water debris. Any slight disturbance and the tank looks like somebody shook up one of those glass snoballs. So, mechanical filtration keeps your sanity.

 

With a normal substrate tank though the substrate will eventually trap this stuff, and I've never owned nor seen a substrate based salt tank that wasn't crystal clear once it's left alone...even with massive water flow. That' why a conservative gravel vac (surface only) on a tank suffering high nutrient issues isn't a bad idea.

 

While cannisters do a better job than HOBs by simple design, again, I'm curious what problem are we trying to solve. Most cloudiness issues on younger tanks are biologic in nature (bacteria or algae) and mechanical filters won't affect that.

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ConnorD42
14 minutes ago, Naekuh said:

no because what happens is as poop and other detritus gets stuck in the canister, it starts to generate nitrite, which then turns into nitrate. 

In a fresh water you ideally have plants, or something which will eat that nitrate into something useful.  

 

In salt unless your running copious amount of macro algae which first off is sort of difficult since corals are also in competition for CO2, you will not have the amount of nitrates being exported. Hence the more simlistic form of nuances called Hair Algae explodes. 

 

This is why u need to clean out that filter floss regularly, and not let it build up. Hence why everyone calls it a nitrate factory.  

 

This is why in a freshwater system, especially ones which are high tech injecting CO2, they can go months without maintenance. 

 

And yes you can scrub those nitrates with algae scrubbers and such, however algae scrubbers are a different form of EQ, you could also scrub the nitrate in a cheato reactor as well, and other things, but thats where costs come in. 

 

I guess if u inline the canister to a cheato reactor it could work out nice, but it wont beat the simplistic route of a hob where u just open the basket, rinse and put back.  

 

Also the added vol, from a canister IMO is not really worth it.

Its nowhere near the vol. of a sump your thinking, which that could help stability.  

 

Well if you ask me, i will use a canister in summer, but it will be connected to my sump.

I need that canister to run my chiller. The canister will just act as a pump, and only be loaded with filter floss so i dont get nasty stuff in the liquid to liquid exchanger. 

I will probably need to change out the floss weekly.

But once summer goes away again, i will remove it along with my chiller.  

Well, Volume wasn't the only reason, but I figured 10% is 10%. I'm perfectly aware it's not a sump lol it's not even in the same galaxy as a sump. But being able to run more biological media was certainly a plus (I'll bet I can fit at least 4x as much biological media alone in the canister that i'd be able to fit in the hob). Being in college and current living situation don't really allow for an ideal setup in any capacity. I'm just operating within the limitations set before me and trying to have as much fun as I can with it in the process until I'm out of school and can set up a larger tank with a sump. But what everyone is saying describes someone who would let nutrient levels rise anyways regardless of the filter type I feel like. If you don't maintain a hob they'll do the same thing, no? 

 

Plus if someone wants to tell me less filtration instead of more filtration for a marine aquarium I'll fall out of my chair. 😂

 

 

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ConnorD42
24 minutes ago, blasterman said:

I've used cannisters for water polishing over the years, but really don't get their need on salt water tanks other than bare bottom. Maybe to stuff them full of carbon or chemi pure to remove something bad in an emergency, but as a general use filter I don't get it.

 

Bare bottom tanks can be a problem keeping water clear because there's nothing to suspend visible water debris. Any slight disturbance and the tank looks like somebody shook up one of those glass snoballs. So, mechanical filtration keeps your sanity.

 

With a normal substrate tank though the substrate will eventually trap this stuff, and I've never owned nor seen a substrate based salt tank that wasn't crystal clear once it's left alone...even with massive water flow. That' why a conservative gravel vac (surface only) on a tank suffering high nutrient issues isn't a bad idea.

 

While cannisters do a better job than HOBs by simple design, again, I'm curious what problem are we trying to solve. Most cloudiness issues on younger tanks are biologic in nature (bacteria or algae) and mechanical filters won't affect that.

Clarity definitely isn't an issue, I do get some hair algae; certainly no explosions though. Again, for my situation I saw it as a good way to increase the amount of biological filtration too. But hey, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It's more filtration that I had previously though.

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Naekuh
26 minutes ago, ConnorD42 said:

But being able to run more biological media was certainly a plus (I'll bet I can fit at least 4x as much biological media alone in the canister that i'd be able to fit in the hob).

your biological media only gets populated as there is a demand for it. 

You can have like 1000lbs of biological media, if you only have 1 fish, less then 1% of it will actually be utilized and the rest can be potential detritus trap. 

 

I think i read somehwere, not 100% sure, maybe someone more knowledgeable can shine in, but 10lbs of live rock potentially can grow enough media for 1inch of fish, hence why the 1lb per gallon rule also follows with 1 inch per gallon, until you get to a certain size like tangs, where they completely smash that rule from how dirty they can get.  

 

More is defintiely not always better, unless were talking about more money in your pocket.  

 

But anyhow if your going to try it, id love to see the results.

I would also love if you would attach a cheato reactor after it, and see if it does anything to scrub nitrates. 

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ConnorD42
5 minutes ago, Naekuh said:

your biological media only gets populated as there is a demand for it. 

You can have like 1000lbs of biological media, if you only have 1 fish, less then 1% of it will actually be utilized and the rest can be potential detritus trap. 

 

I think i read somehwere, not 100% sure, maybe someone more knowledgeable can shine in, but 10lbs of live rock potentially can grow enough media for 1inch of fish, hence why the 1lb per gallon rule also follows with 1 inch per gallon, until you get to a certain size like tangs, where they completely smash that rule from how dirty they can get.  

 

More is defintiely not always better, unless were talking about more money in your pocket.  

 

But anyhow if your going to try it, id love to see the results.

I would also love if you would attach a cheato reactor after it, and see if it does anything to scrub nitrates. 

Yeah I think a few people are curious to see what happens hah. I did agree to update regularly, whether you guys want a separate forum discussion on it is up to y'all.

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