Ammonia Help :(

[theiceman5207]

So to start I have been keeping aquariums for as long as I can remember. I am currently setting up a new tank and thought id try my hand at a biocube 32g. I started to cycle the aquarium via the Dr. Tims one and only and Dr. Tims Ammonium chloride, I waited and nothing happened. while testing using a brand new API test kit ammonia stayed at 1-1.5 ppm, nitrite and nitrate was both zero by the test kit. About 2 weeks ago i gave up and got another bottle of bacteria this time Fuval  brand and day after i started getting nitrites. its been approx. two weeks now from the addition of the second bottle of bacteria. ammonia is STILL ~1ppm, nitrite is ~1ppm, and nitrate is minimal. I have a diatom bloom currently and thinking maybe the test solution was bad bought another, and got the same result. I am at a loss and there is not any livestock in the tank. why are my ammonia levels still 1 ppm...  Please Help getting frustrated. thanks     

[patback]

Api is actually a pretty untrustworthy kit.  To much room for error.  I would not be surprised to find out you are actually at 0 and reccomend another test kit, or having someone/ a lfs test if they use something other than api.

[theiceman5207]

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

What test kits do you recommend. My lfs are really not the best and unless i order (which is what ill do) api is really my only local choice.

[specore]

33 minutes ago, theiceman5207 said:

So to start I have been keeping aquariums for as long as I can remember. I am currently setting up a new tank and thought id try my hand at a biocube 32g. I started to cycle the aquarium via the Dr. Tims one and only and Dr. Tims Ammonium chloride, I waited and nothing happened. while testing using a brand new API test kit ammonia stayed at 1-1.5 ppm, nitrite and nitrate was both zero by the test kit. About 2 weeks ago i gave up and got another bottle of bacteria this time Fuval  brand and day after i started getting nitrites. its been approx. two weeks now from the addition of the second bottle of bacteria. ammonia is STILL ~1ppm, nitrite is ~1ppm, and nitrate is minimal. I have a diatom bloom currently and thinking maybe the test solution was bad bought another, and got the same result. I am at a loss and there is not any livestock in the tank. why are my ammonia levels still 1 ppm...  Please Help getting frustrated. thanks     

If you started with dry rock I would expect it to take 4-6 weeks for a good cycle, even with Dr Tim's

[Clown79]

Api isn't an untrustworthy test kit. It's a go to.

 

 

http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling

 

That is the proper instructions for fishless cycling.

 

You don't just dose once and the tank will cycle, it can also take up  4 - 6 weeks.

 

Ammonia must process and convert to nitrite which then converts to nitrate which is then reduced by waterchanges.

 

 

 

[Tamberav]

My cycles took over 4 weeks. This hobby is slowwww and only bad things happen fast.

[MrObscura]

Api can be inaccurate, especially ammonia. Often api will read .25ppm when it's actually zero.

 

But at this point I'd say your tanks might simply not be cycled yet. 

[Slim64684]

I just cycled my tank using ace ammonia and nite out 2. I added the first dose of ammonia to 2ppm on 11/18 started adding nite out 2 about a week later (would have to check tank journal to be sure). I tested tonight 12/11 and my first 0 nitrite test result occurred. I think it took close to 2 weeks after ammonia disappeared until nitrites dropped to 0 ( again would have to check journal). 

 

If you are getting nitrites and nitrates your cycle is progressing just give it time.

[patback]

3 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Api isn't an untrustworthy test kit. It's a go to.

 

 

http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling

 

That is the proper instructions for fishless cycling.

 

You don't just dose once and the tank will cycle, it can also take up  4 - 6 weeks.

 

Ammonia must process and convert to nitrite which then converts to nitrate which is then reduced by waterchanges.

 

 

 

Test your water 5 times in a row with api.  You will never get the same shade.  Not to mention, our eyes are very bad at distinguishing the comparison card in basically any lighting. Api would be my absolute last choice especially for ammonia.  

[Clown79]

 

 

 

 

I just used the api kit again and have for every cycle and there was a considerable difference between the green and yellow.

 

It even states in the instructions that it's to be viewed in natural light with the tube against the white part of the chart.

 

The kit is not likely the issue here, more likely the cycle is not complete or there was a problem while dosing.

 

 I have used the kit successfully for 7 saltwater tanks and numerous freshwater.

 

I'm not the only one.

 

 

 

 

 

[ReefGoat]

I trust api ammonia as well. 

[Clown79]

15 minutes ago, patback said:

Test your water 5 times in a row with api.  You will never get the same shade.  Not to mention, our eyes are very bad at distinguishing the comparison card in basically any lighting. Api would be my absolute last choice especially for ammonia.  

I have tested it numerous times I a row.

 

I've also tested it against 3 established tanks vs tanks that went through a spike/cycle.

 

The established ranks were yellow results, the ones with ammonia present were not. They were green.

 

If the yellow has a tinge of green to it, it's not 0 ammonia.

 

Human error comes into play with incorrect results, which we often forget is a possibility. 

 

 

[patback]

7 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

 

 

 

 

I just used the api kit again and have for every cycle and there was a considerable difference between the green and yellow.

 

It even states in the instructions that it's to be viewed in natural light with the tube against the white part of the chart.

 

The kit is not likely the issue here, more likely the cycle is not complete or there was a problem while dosing.

 

 I have used the kit successfully for 7 saltwater tanks and numerous freshwater.

 

I'm not the only one.

 

 

 

 

 

Okay.  Despite what the test directions say, you are not comparing colors. It doesnt work by magic, it is shades of the same color. The entire basis of the test is a poor concept.  Not to mention the numerous posts we get per year of people asking others to tell them what their test results are because they cant tell.  

You could very well have used it for every tank you have had and can continue using it for your next 15 tanks.  It doesnt change the fact that it is one of the lowest main stream tests we as hobbyists use.  

[specore]

17 minutes ago, patback said:

Okay.  Despite what the test directions say, you are not comparing colors. It doesnt work by magic, it is shades of the same color. The entire basis of the test is a poor concept.  Not to mention the numerous posts we get per year of people asking others to tell them what their test results are because they cant tell.  

You could very well have used it for every tank you have had and can continue using it for your next 15 tanks.  It doesnt change the fact that it is one of the lowest main stream tests we as hobbyists use.  

II honestly think zero is pretty easy to read with API, and in the end it is the only result that matters.  Difference between .5 and 1 ppm....who cares 🙂

 

[theiceman5207]

ok ok so i get its a slow process i have cycled many tanks. However there is nothing in the tank how can the nitrites and nitrates go up and the ammonia still be the same. unless I am missing something if there is a set amount of ammonia in the system and its supposedly being converted to nitrites how do i have the same amount.  

[seabass]

API's ammonia test kit is pretty sensitive (I believe more so than some others).  People often believe that our tanks have no ammonia in them; that's not typically true.  The biofilter processes the ammonia quickly and keeps it low enough that most test kits can't detect it.

 

However, even the ocean has low levels of ammonia.  The problem is that most people interpret a non-zero reading as 0.25 ppm.  However, it is most likely somewhere between 0.25 and 0.00 ppm.  Plus newer tanks might have slightly higher levels than a mature reef tank.

 

But like people have already said, if API is reporting 1.0 ppm, the tank has probably not fully established its nitrogen cycle yet.  It might be another story if the test was reading 0.25 ppm for a couple of weeks.

[theiceman5207]

2 minutes ago, seabass said:

API's ammonia test kit is pretty sensitive (I believe more so than some others).  People often believe that our tanks have no ammonia in them; that's not typically true.  The biofilter processes the ammonia quickly and keeps it low enough that most test kits can't detect it.

 

However, even the ocean has low levels of ammonia.  The problem is that most people interpret a non-zero reading as 0.25 ppm.  However, it is most likely somewhere between 0.25 and 0.00 ppm.  Plus newer tanks might have slightly higher levels than a mature reef tank.

 

But like people have already said, if API is reporting 1.0 ppm, the tank has probably not fully established its nitrogen cycle yet.  It might be another story if the test was reading 0.25 ppm for a couple of weeks.

I would get that if it dropped to 1 ppm, but it just gets me is that it never has dropped ever... how can i have the others without the ammonia being reduced.

[Slim64684]

Did you test ammonia after adding it to verify level? 

 

In my cycle testing nitrites didn't appear to drop but i was getting more nitrates. 

 

Also in what kind of lighting are you looking at the tests? I have seen different results depending on lighting.

[theiceman5207]

6 minutes ago, Slim64684 said:

Did you test ammonia after adding it to verify level? 

 

In my cycle testing nitrites didn't appear to drop but i was getting more nitrates. 

 

Also in what kind of lighting are you looking at the tests? I have seen different results depending on lighting.

i did check the ammonia after adding and at 24hr after addition as well as every 24 hr for the duration. I could see like you said Nitrite would hover as its a middle product however I am not adding anymore ammonia. As for lighting i use my Iphone flashlight to read because lighting is not great this time of year natural light is dim and hazy. none the less i can view the colors quite clearly this way.

[Clown79]

Were the Dr Tim's products expired? 

 

What rock did you use?

Are you using any filtration media?

 

It is possible to see ammonia with nitrite present.

 

Not all cycles are perfect ammonia to 0

Then nitrite, then nitrate.

 

 

If you go through all the numerous threads on cycling questions you'll see the variety of issues that arise.

 

 

[banasophia]

I really like BioSpira and Nutri-Seawater to speed up the cycle. Worked well in both my tanks.