Kicking a 32 Gal. BioCube to the next level (External Sump/Filtration)

[PugetSoundReefer]

Alright, so I let my daughter convince me to take me beyond the Bio Load filtration capabilities of my 32 Gal. BioCube (35 gallons of live rock + Purigen + Chemipure is barely keeping up).

 

I don't have a ton of space to give up - and the 32 Gal. BioCube is pretty well "set" at this point, so I figure:

 

1. Increasing filtration via an external (Trigger Systems - 20 Gal.) sump is the best option. (BOTH ARE ON A LEVEL/IDENTICAL SURFACE). This will have:

 

a. Two (2) plates of Biofilter Media for two (2) separate Bacteria cultivations (Using Aquaforest stuff for "S" and "F'" strains).

b. A refugium with "greens," with full spectrum LED lighting.

c. Somatic 60S Protein Skimmer (I have a Protein Skimmer in the BioCube now - but I figure this adds redundancy which will help while cleaning either unit.)

 

***It seems this is the best (and least disruptive) option for making what is already in place within the 32 Gal. BioCube work. I am aiming for a long-term solution - with a goal of this setup becoming an ultra-low maintenance (ULM) *system*.

d. Various Chemipure, Purigen and Phosguard deployments throughout the Trigger Systems external sump.

 

2. Valving on inbound/outbound lines will allow for flow compensation between (identical make/model/GPH pumps) if required (or shutoff when required).

 

3. KEY ISSUE FOR FORUM: I believe that if a pump fails in either tank, that the alternate/other tank's pump (the pump which is still operational) will drain its respective sump, but that the water it pumps (during the other pump's failure) will not be enough to overflow the tank with the failed pump.

(NOTE: It is understood that once the (still operational) pump drains its sump, that it will likely burn out/fail if left unattended for an extended period of time. The main idea here is that a catastrophic "flooding event" is avoided if this is all true.)

 

I am not an engineer, but I consider myself fairly intelligent - and have not killed this tank during my first year.

 

Will someone let me know if I am an idiot (and a "Murphy's Law Award Candidate" - for an indoor flood) if I do what I have outlined above?

 

[Subsea]

Bad idea.  I am an engineer.  I have been reefing for 45 years and I have flooded a room more than once.  

 

It it can be done with judicious planning.  Your hand sketched drawing is far from detailed enough to give you a clear cut answer.

[ReefingRelapse]

If your talking about pumping into the sump it won't work, you will never have equal flow to and from

[ReefingRelapse]

I was planning on adding a sump to mine but without drilling the tank, the only way to add an overflow box would be to make a pvc diy overflow or cut out one of the baffles so that I could fit an eshopps box.

Overall I've decided I don't think it's worth the hassle and im using enough electricity already.

[Guest]

Great ideas

[PugetSoundReefer]

On 2/11/2018 at 7:43 PM, Subsea said:

Bad idea.  I am an engineer.  I have been reefing for 45 years and I have flooded a room more than once.  

 

It it can be done with judicious planning.  Your hand sketched drawing is far from detailed enough to give you a clear cut answer.

2

I greatly appreciate the feedback - and I respect that I am not an engineer.

 

I guess the last point I hope to restate (and inquire about for the final time) is that with:

 

1. Both tanks on the same, level surface.

2. Same make/model/GPH pumps in each tank (with some "tuning" of flows in each direction modulated by valving if required).

3. Sump areas which are a fraction of the total volumes of either container (emergencies).

 

It seems that if I can balance/modulate the flows to/from the tanks (with valving, if required), that I can (hypothetically) ensure there will not be flooding either tank (in any scenario that I can run through my (non-engineer) brain) under any "pump failure scenario?"

 

Do you have a recommendation for how to design this (without spending an extreme amount of $'s)?

[Subsea]

Forgot about duplicate pumps and manual valve adjustment to maintain levels.  Yes it would be true, if pump intake were at the top of tank and volumes per inch were calculated, then when one pump failed, then the other pump would cavitate and run dry.  It would not take a pump failure for this to happen. Because you will never match exactly the two flow rates, the levels will change 24/7.  It is only a matter of time.

 

The tanks can sit on the same surface, but water levels would be differrent.  Your 20L sump pump flows to display and drains back thru overflow weir.  If  you can’t prep your display tank with an overflow, then forget it.  Eventually you will flood your table.

[ReefingRelapse]

Even if you were to get flows to match, the second that one of those pumps gets a little to much debris build up inside and gets .1gph slower, you have a flood.

Crazy Idea but you could pump water to a sump above the tank and drain that by gravity! Lol

Or you could put in a overflow box in the 2nd or 3rd chamber along with the return. Problem is, if you put your return line in the display and the sump pump fails. Your return could back siphon while the factory pump keeps the water at same level in tank = Flooding the sump/ and or burning the tank pump

 

if you do use a 20g sump, you may be able to avoid a flood depending on how much extra volume you have inside. Doubtful though

[HarryPotter]

Raise the the sump one inch taller than the tank and you have your solution IMO.  A bit of acrylic work on the slightly taller sump and you can have it drain into a bio cube chamber. Easy  let me know if you would need me to draw this for you. 

 

By one inch higher than the tank, I mean the edge of the tank. Not one inch higher than the light. 

[ReefingRelapse]

Or option #3. You could delete the pump in chamber 3, cap off return line or tie it into the sump return, use the 3rd chamber for overflow box as well.

[I.Love.Blennies]

The only way to do this would be to process the water in batches. So like you have the sump empty out and that triggers the tank to pump until water fills the sump and then the sump empties. that's the control loop. basically, the pumps don't run at the same time. they have cycles that are triggered. 

 

I would expect the water to sit in the sump and be cleaned for a little while before going back up. so your tank would fluctuate the volume of the sump every batch.