Largest tank possible for $600-700 USD

[Shaz]

So a 48" metal halide with 1/2 the wattage of a 48" VHO would actually be better?

 

Are T5s whole new lighting fixtures, or is it jsut the type of bulb that i could but in a VHO fixture?

 

...I guess I basically would like to spend $300 or less on lighting... On a 50 or 55 gallon tank is it possible ot find metal halides used, or new that would be good enough for clams, and hard corals and all the high lighting stuff? what would be a good place to look for these? classifieds and hellolights.com and all those types of places?

[Cellenzweig]

So a 48" metal halide with 1/2 the wattage of a 48" VHO would actually be better?

Not half the wattage. 2X175w= 350w vs 440w VHO. The halides would definately be better.

 

All of those places would be good to look. If you can find used, even better. You can save a lot of $$ that way. I got my 250w pulse start ballast, a spider reflector and a 4 month old Aqualine-Bushke bulb for $90 used. If you keep your eyes open, you can find a great deal.

 

T5 is a different fixture than VHO. It can use the same ballast (usually a workhorse, but there are other brands used) T5s are a very thin tube, about as big as a dime. They are very common in Europe and slowly becomming popular here. I've seen a few really nice SPS and clam tanks from Germany that only use T5.

 

You can also try to find a combo fixture that has maybe one 175w or 250w halide an a couple VHOs.

[Shaz]

Ok Thanks

I have a lot of dearching to do... I really have to focus and not regret this. If im going to put the money in it, I have to do it right thank you very much for your help... I would probably of got the VHO's but as long as i see a good deal, Im gonig for the metal halide

 

Thanks!!

[Shaz]

Is this the whole fixture... or jsut the part that the buble screw into the fixture? and if its a fixture.. is it a good deal? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ssPageName=WDVW

 

Edited to add: With metal halide, you dotn need a fixture as long as your tank do you? dont you just raise it? like for a 48" long tank i wouldnt need a 48" long fixture, would I?

[Cellenzweig]

That's a complete package, including reflectors, ballasts, sockets and bulbs. Looks like a pretty good price to me. You have your choice of 10k and 20k bulbs. I suggest before buying, you should try to find a place you can see them in action. The 20k is very blue. Most people who use these don't use actinics (some do). The 10k is more yellow and imo doesn't look great without actinics.

[Cellenzweig]

Edited to add: With metal halide, you dotn need a fixture as long as your tank do you? dont you just raise it? like for a 48" long tank i wouldnt need a 48" long fixture, would I?

Nope. This isn't a fixture really. It's a retro kit. You mount the lights however you like- whether that be on a 2x4 mounted abouve the tank or in a custom canopy. I'd suggest building a DIY canopy

[Shaz]

ok ty fr all your help!!!... im heading out for the night ill think aobut bidding on it ... do you think there will be other products like that for that price or is this a really good deal?

[Cellenzweig]

It looks like that's an online store, but not sure. $229 is the "buy it now" price, so I think they probably have several units.

[earwicker7]

Shaz--MHs are the "Me too!" of reefing. 90% of reefers don't need them, but buy them anyway because "they're cool" and everyone tells them they need them--marketing, baby! Yes, they are the best, but unless you're planning on growing clams or acroporas, you simply don't need them. If you do plan on using them, know this--you absolutely must have a chiller, which will run you a minimum of $400 and up to $1000 new. When you fire up MHs without a cooler, the temperature can jump up 10 degrees in a matter of minutes, which will at least stress the occupants of your tank, and probably kill them. Also, unless you're a do-it-yourself-er, you're going to need to buy a custom cabinet (MHs need at least 12" of space above the water because of the heat) or get used to having a couple of ugly light fixtures dangling from your ceiling.

[Shaz]

bummer

So NO MATTER what, if i got metal halides I would need a chiller?

If so, I mide as well forget it, im on a moderate budget and It would be best to skip it.

 

So now its down to VHO and P/C (as long as i WOULD in fact need a chiller like you said.) If I would get VHO i would probably get the 4, 48" 110w setup. Is there any type of P/C that would be just as good as this, or is VHO almost always better than P/C as far as strong lighting? Is there anything besides VHO or P/C that would be good?

 

Thanks

[earwicker7]

A friend of mine owns a fish store and he says the only reason PCs are even around any more is because they are easier for the store owners--a tiny bit more money for the customer but a whole lot less space taken up for the owner. Go with the VHOs.

[Shaz]

You know what guys.....

I think I actually made a decision....

 

 

VHO'S it is!!! whoo lol

[Cellenzweig]

You definately don't NEED a chiller to run halides. Actually most people with halides don't own a chiller. Ask around here, there aren't too many with a chiller. If your house if already hot, or you have lots of other equipment heating the tank, you may have a heat problem, but generally if you run a couple 80mm fans in the hood, you're ok. Besides, you're in MI. It's not exactly the hottest state. Many of the users here have halides w/no chiller and live in arizona, florida, cali, etc..

[Shaz]

uh oh.... you know what that means...

Its back to the drawing board!!!!

VHO or metal halide? VHO or metal halide? VHO or metal halide? VHO or metal halide? haha.... I guess ill know a good deal when a see it! the ONLY reason why im afraid getting a 50 gal over a 30 is stocking it... it will be a lto mroe expensive So i need to decide for sure on that too.

[earwicker7]

Cellenzweig--you don't NEED to change the oil in your car every 3000 miles, but your car will run like crap if you don't. Same with the MHs and a chiller--the fans will keep the water from reaching 90 degrees, but they WILL NOT keep the temperature from fluctuating when they go on and off and stability of water parameters is probably the most important factor in the long-term health of the tank's inhabitants. All it takes is a 4 degree change in temperature to compromise the immunity of the tank's inhabitants. As to there being plenty of people who run MHs without a chiller, plenty of people listen to Brittany Spears, but that doesn't make her a good singer.

[Shaz]

But would you actually recomend only using a MH with a chiller if it will do that to the inhabitants?

 

For a 50 gallon tank what do you think aobut this system.. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...0&N=2004+113178

It would be the 36" one. Do bulbs come with it?

 

With that fixture that I jsut gave a link on, would a more wattage VHO such as four 110w bulbs be better, or would the MH still be better because the light 'penetrates'?

 

Last question....

would you suggest I do PC over VHO if I want a stronger lighting system?

[EtOH_is_good]

i also disagree with what earwicker7 says about mh. mh is not about "me too" or "being cool". mh serves a purpose when it comes to reefing. as far as intensity and par, mh may be your final choice because of what you want to keep ie sps hard corals. heat problems are dependent on ambient temp. if you start off hot, mh may make it hotter. here in md, my tank temp did not change that significantly because of the mh even during this summer. can always raise the light if you have a pendent or add another fan.

[Shaz]

I am jsut having the hardest time deciding VHO or MH for a 50, or 55 gallon tank.... of course in the future I would liek to be able to do all types of corals, (obviously i wouldnt do them first.) Would the four bulb 110k 48" VHO fixture let me do any clams or and hard corals at all? If so a 2 bulb VHO 110w wouldnt... would it?

[nalbar]

if you want 'all sorts of corals' the better choice would be MH. two MH.

 

 

nalbar

[earwicker7]

EtOH_is_good--you're not paying attention to what I said. I agree with you that if you are going to grow SPS or clams, MHs are the way to go. My point is that I've seen a ton of people with nothing but mushrooms and zoos running MHs and their LFS is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

Also, I have a hard time believing that you are running FIFTEEN WATTS PER GALLON and have no problem with temperature fluctuation. Maybe your LFS is laughing all the way to the bank, since I've never seen any source saying that you need more than four per gallon, even for SPS and clams. Are the lights mounted to your ceiling? If not, I've got a feeling that with all of the fans you are running, you probably could have bought a chiller, which is definitely going to keep your temperature constant. All the fans are just pushing the hot air away; they're doing nothing to alleviate any temperature changes that do occur--I don't care how good your fans are, when you turn on MHs, you go from no temperature input relative to room temperature to at least 10 degrees higher. Even if this only raises your temperature a degree or two, this is enough to kill a sensitive species. A chiller means ZERO temperature fluctuation--I don't see how you can argue with this.

[EtOH_is_good]

shaz, didn't mean to jack your thread but obviously ppl have very strong opinions about reefs and how to do them. if you are so confused about the lighting choices start at square one and learn more. here's a link to lighting in a sw aquarium. personally, i plan on upgrading my tank in the future, so this is the reason for my overpowered, expensive light system. my light is a pendent, so it hangs from the ceiling. the most frequent comment that i get is "where's the fish?". and not, "that light looks ugly hanging from the ceiling." i also have adjusted the height so that the mh does not boil my tank. you can run mh, but for your budget, you'll need to get some steals.

 

earwicker7, i hate answering lighting questions exactly because of the watts per gallon simplification. simplifying lights to watts per gallon does not take into consideration the specturm or intensity. i do believe that most people go mh for a particular reason, not just because the lfs said to. btw, i did not consult the lfs on lighting. the difference in price between a 150 and 250 is negligible by my bank account.

[JC VT]

Shaz,

 

Here's my recommendation. Go with the 2 VHO retro *for now*. Save your money for 6-12 months while your tank is maturing and then switch your VHO bulbs to actinic(you have to switch them anyways around 8 months) and then buy a dual retrofit halide system. You really just don't need MH now.

 

http://www.hellolights.com/22elarovhoba.html

 

My suggestion is save money by getting this (with all the options like plug, caps, etc), and then for the next 6 months to a year, save up like 2 dollars a day and get a dual 250w retro. Your two VHO's should be able to handle softies and LPS. If you don't believe me, check this guy's tank out (he has softies and a brain coral and it looks beautiful even though he doesn't have much): http://www.nova.edu/~giro/gallery.html

 

Your VHO's will cost something like $135 and will not go to waste if you use them for actinic supplementation later.

[Shaz]

ty soo much again JC TV i jsut went to the library and got liek 8 books lol that should help...

[earwicker7]

EtOH_is_good--Your point about watts/gallon being a simplified is certainly valid; it's just a good rule of thumb, a place from which to start. Spectrum is also important, of course, which is why I wanted to point out what could possibly be an issue with your lighting system. Are your actinics 10,000s? I think most are, in which case they match your MHs are therefor wouldn't serve any purpose other than additional watts. There are usually 3 spectrum points that are good to hit--6,500 10,000 and 20,000. Most people stick with the first two; if you are only hitting one, you might want to change one of your light sources.

[djaz0503]

Shaz,

 

If deciding between VHO's and MH's is really mind boggling and you're having a hard time then rest assured that 440 watts of VHO's over 55 gallon tank will be more than sufficient to keep just about anything you want. I have that exact setup on my 55 and I keep anything I want, SPS, LPS, softies, maxima clam....etc. Water quality is equally as important as lighting if not more important. You can have the best lighting money can buy, but if you have poor water quality then all you have are expensive lights. Placement of the corals will also have and effect on how well the corals live.

 

There are a lot of "theories" and "rules of thumb" in this hobby, and I could go on and on about them, but when it really comes down to it I put all those theories aside and do what works for me. There are lots of books and other resources to learn from, but the best source is experience. Experiment with a set up and find out what works and what doesn't and make the necessary changes. Everybody in this hobby makes mistakes and we all learn from them. Just don't be affraid to try something.

 

My advice to you is look around for a used set up, either here or on ReefCentral, something between 20-55 gallons and you'll probably find something in your price range. People are constantly selling used equipment and livestock, and usually for very low prices. As for livestock, instead of spending tons of money on larger corals $50+, buy frags, $10-$25, from other hobbyists tanks or from your LFS. This way you'll be able to watch how they react to certain conditions and determine what makes them grow and thrive in you tank. And at the same time you'll have saved yourself some money.

 

Hope this helps,

Dave