Clown aggression!! NEED help asap!!!!

[coralreef20g]

What's up guys,

 

about four and a half weeks ago I purchased and added two black ice ocellaris clowns to my 20 gallon rsm nano. One clown is obviously larger than the other by about a quarter of an inch but they are both still under 1.5".

 

Since then they've been getting along well and have been friendly with one another up until this past week.

 

I noticed my larger clown of the two who I assume to be the female has been chasing my male around. Chasing him to the point that when he stops she will bite him until he starts darting again. At first I thought this may pass and the two clowns will settle their differences. This was not the case, as the week progressed I began to see my male less and less until I couldn't spot him at all. It took me about 15 mins to find him wedged in a piece of rock swimming upside down and breathing very fast. When he saw me he came out of hiding, this was a relief as I knew he was ok, yet as soon as he came out the female came and beat him up. About a week has passed and between seeing nipped fins on my male, a bite mark on his lip from a "lip lock", and my females harassment in general I've decided to segregate my female. 

 

I went to the lfs and bought a breeder box for my female. I've had her in it for about four hours now and my male is already out of hiding and slowly exploring the tank (trust me he's had a long week). I was just wondering how long I should have my female in isolation? My male definitely has some healing to do and it just so happens I'm going on vacation for 5 days. Will this be enough time for both of them or should I not keep my female in the breeder that long? Ps: someone is taking care of my tank when I'm gone so I could instruct them to let her back in the dt while I'm away.

 

any and all answers help immensely!!!

[1891Bro]

Yup. They can be aggressive. Damsels are like that. I say keep her in there till she learns how to act right. 

[seabass]

The larger one is looking for the smaller to be submissive.  If it doesn't submit, the larger one will kill the smaller one.  The greater the size difference, the more likely they will pair without excessive aggression.

 

I would consider taking one back (if possible) before your trip.

 

A trick that sometimes works, is to remove the aggressive fish, then rearrange the rocks.  With the less aggressive fish already in the tank, release the aggressive fish back into the tank.  This way, it doesn't think that it's defending its territory.

 

Edit: Some aggression is normal.  However, this sounds excessive.  There should be no damage to either fish.

[Clown79]

I've seen mild aggression. The chasing of the smaller clown, the bullying from the female but as Seabass mentioned no aggression to the point where there is physical damage.

 

Normally the smaller one submits, does its little dance, looks like its twitching/seizure like and the aggression subsides. The femle will still be bossy bully but not to the point of injury.

 

It may be better to return one and replace it but ensure that there is a difference in size between the 2.

[coralreef20g]

33 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

I've seen mild aggression. The chasing of the smaller clown, the bullying from the female but as Seabass mentioned no aggression to the point where there is physical damage.

 

Normally the smaller one submits, does its little dance, looks like its twitching/seizure like and the aggression subsides. The femle will still be bossy bully but not to the point of injury.

 

It may be better to return one and replace it but ensure that there is a difference in size between the 2.

Yea, at this point I'm considering replacing one of the clowns.

 

Will my female be ok to stay in the breeder box while I'm gone though? She will be fed within it if so.

 

I obviously won't be in town to replace a clown and at the same time do not feel comfortable letting my female be around my male. This is happening at a bad time  and I wish they could've gotten along.

 

I've seen my female twitch and do the dance next to my male but my male has yet to do it back. Why won't he just subside and do the dance?

 

it sounds like the only true option left is to replace my male 

[seabass]

Usually, only the submissive one will "do the dance."  So the smaller one is showing submission.  That's a good sign.  This leads me to believe that they will work it out.

 

If it were me, and I couldn't return one before leaving, I would rearrange the rocks as I had suggested above (first removing the aggressive clownfish).  Those breeder boxes aren't very spacious.  I'd feel bad leaving it in there for so long.

 

At this point, both of the fish are still probably juveniles.  But they should still work it out as to which one will become the female when it matures (and which one will be male).  Note that the male (if kept without a female) will eventually become female.  However, a female can not revert back to being a male.  Also, two females will fight to the death in a confined space (like a nano tank).

[SelectedByNature]

1 hour ago, seabass said:

Usually, only the submissive one will "do the dance."  So the smaller one is showing submission.  That's a good sign.  This leads me to believe that they will work it out.

 

If it were me, and I couldn't return one before leaving, I would rearrange the rocks as I had suggested above (first removing the aggressive clownfish).  Those breeder boxes aren't very spacious.  I'd feel bad leaving it in there for so long.

 

At this point, both of the fish are still probably juveniles.  But they should still work it out as to which one will become the female when it matures (and which one will be male).  Note that the male (if kept without a female) will eventually become female.  However, a female can not revert back to being a male.  Also, two females will fight to the death in a confined space (like a nano tank).

I think you may have misread? He said the female does the submissive action and the male has never shown submission.

 

I would follow the above instructions and try the rescape if you have time to do it, and view the results prior to leaving.

 

Just out of curiosity, is the size difference in the fish still the same as it was when they were purchased? I wonder why the sudden change.

[seabass]

Oh... you're right (probably half awake).  That's a big concern.  That poor fish (what you're calling the female) doesn't know what to do.  "He" is trying everything.  If I were to predict what would happen, I'd guess the weaker fish will perish.

 

Do you have a 5 gallon bucket?  I might try separating the two and put one in the bucket with a powerhead and one or two pieces of live rock (and a spare heater if you have one), at least until you can return one of the fish.  If the weaker fish isn't too visibly damaged, I'd return it.  It seems to me that it is the one that isn't behaving normally, or maybe they are just too close in size.

[SelectedByNature]

2 minutes ago, seabass said:

Oh... you're right (probably half awake). 

Figured.

 

Unfortunate situation though. It's odd the smaller fish is getting beat-up but also refusing to submit? And people think fish aren't complex animals.