So, how the hell does this work?

[Von digity]

http://hellolights.com/17elbalmetha.html

 

 

 

how do you make a MH ballast fire bulbs of different wattages? Does a 150 watt DE bulb use the same wavelength and wattage (or whatever technical mumbojumbo) as a 175 watt SE? Will any 175 watt or 150 watt electronic ballast fire either bulbs? Could I simply buy a 175 watt magnetic pulse start ballast and run a 150 watt bulb off of it.?

 

Sorry, I know, lots of questions. I'm not surprised that it works though, I think I've read that 400 watt HQI ballasts are simply 430 watt hps ballasts or something.

 

So, any info would be much appreciated.

[Derek_setter]

well von.. you see there are these creatures... called gnomes. and they control the company that makes the ballast. Now, these gnomes are in pretty good with the fairies, the kind wiht wings and magic. well when you install the ballast, the fary that lives inside sends a coded message to the gnomes who ogive the fairy permission to use it's magic and switch it to the correct wattage.

 

so, you see now.. it's MAGIC!

[fade2black]

The wattages have to match. A 175W ballast will fire 175W bulbs. DE and SE need the appropriate ballast.

 

The ballast you are showing looks like it will run either 150W DE bulbs or 175W mogul and medium base bulbs.

[Von digity]

So, its all about gnomes. Those magical hairy toe'd punks always be messing with my electronics.

 

Fade2black, I understand that the wattages have to match, what I am asking is how can a single ballast fire 2 bulbs of different wattages (unless they really are the same wattage?) I'm coming to the assumption that 175 SE bulbs require the same wavelenghts as 150 watt DE bulbs... Now, HQI and pulse start bulbs are different from american probe start bulbs in the fact that they need an ignitor. By using electronic ballasts, all these incompatibilies seem to go away magically. So, since a pulse start is so similar to a hqi in design, could I fire a 150 watt DE bulb on a 175 watt pulse start ballast? Assuming that a 150 watt DE bulb requires the same energy as a 175 watt SE.

 

I'm also thinking why wouldn't an icecap 175 watt ballast fire a 150 watt DE? Especially since icecap and ARO are basically the same?

[just dave]

Originally posted by Von digity

So, its all about gnomes. Those magical hairy toe'd punks always be messing with my electronics.  

 

 

That sounds like Hobbits and they are restricted to pumps and power heads.

[oldtimer]

Oh, but you forgot. The cryptic hobbits have been known to fool around with ballasts. Bright little creatures you know.

[Von digity]

Hmmm. Gnomes, hobbits, cryptic hobbits.... I bet some ogres will take care of em. And, stuff...

 

Ok, so I read one of Sanjay Joshi's articles comparing 150 watt DEs and at the end of the article he compares a 150 watt DE to a 175 watt SE. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov...02/feature2.htm

and

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may...2004/review.htm

 

It looks like the range of wattages from bulb/ballast combos that the 150s run on are close to what 175 SE run on.

 

The 150 wattage curve is: 163-228 watts

 

For comparison: a AB 175W Single Ended Lamp, run on a magnetic ballast draws 213 watts.

 

This looks like it's be fine running a 150 de on a ballast rated @ 175 watts as long as I choose a bulb that draws more wattage.

 

Anyone else with thoughts on this? It would be a cheap way of using 175 watt magnetic pulse start ballasts to run 150 watt DE bulbs. Yeah, I'm really cheap...

[Derek_setter]

hmm the logic to it is there, but i dont know if it would work like that in reality. I would say try it out. it's not like it's going ot kill ya

[jmt]

I fired a 175w SE on a 150w ballast. SE ballasts will fire DE bulbs.

 

HQI ballasts "overdrive" the bulbs to get more performance out of them. So, the bulb is set at 175w for SE and a 150w HQI (which is overdriving the bulb to 175w - which is normal for HQI).

 

The pulse and running statistics of DE ballasts and SE ballasts are identical (with the exception of differeing wattages).

 

-Justin

[Von digity]

Justin,

 

Was that 150 watt ballast an m102? What do you think the effects of this

 

"ANSI M160/M102 ballasts will provide an ignition voltage around 3000-4000 volts and shall never exceed 4000V according to the ANSI document: ANSI C78.1384-1997

 

ANSI M81 ballasts will provide an ignition voltage around 4000-6000 volts according to the ANSI document: ANSI C78.1385-1998 "

Will have anything to do with shortening the bulb life? I'd imagine that all it would do is flicker alittle more during start up...

 

I wonder how a 150 watt De run on an m81 compares to a 150 watt De run on a m137 (pulse start). I don't think the m57 will fire DE bulbs though.... Since the bulbs don't have an ignitor...

 

Anyone seen a cheap place to get m137s online? I think I saw some mags for 40 bucks... I also came accross a mag m81 but that was 70 bucks... I think I can justify this also because used 175 watt electronic ballasts are pretty common (and alot cheaper), compared to used 150 watt electronic ballasts.

[Rustynail]

I would use caution with this ballast. From what I know, you need a switch to set it to either or. I have not seen a ballast that can run either, without some type of switch. Then again, it is an electronic ballast and most newer models may be able to "sense" what bulb is being use. Probably why its rated for 150/175.

 

Anyways, please also do yourself a favor and make sure that ballast is UL approved. HL has had a past history of selling a few items that were not UL approved.

 

HTH

[Von digity]

Thanks for the heads up Rustynail. Though, it appears that there is also a magnetic ballast that runs 150/175 watt combos. So I'm really into thinking that the wavelengths are the same, and that there really aren't any internal switches involved. Hmmm, but a non UL approved electronic device could cause alot of problems. I can only imagine if theres a fire in my house, even with a gfci hooked up, the first thing they are going to look at is the metal halide, and I doubt running a bulb rated @ a different wattage than my ballast is going to help when I have to explain it to my insurance company: "you see there are these creatures... called gnomes. and they control the company that makes the ballast. Now, these gnomes are in pretty good with the fairies, the kind with wings and magic. well when you install the ballast, the fairy that lives inside sends a coded message to the gnomes who give the fairy permission to use it's magic and switch it to the correct wattage. So, you see guys its not the ballasts fault..." Yeah, that will definetly bite.

[oldtimer]

It's the hobbits, I say. They are very bright, you know.

[Von digity]

Wait... I thought they were "cryptic" hobbits. Are there "blood" hobbits too?

[Von digity]

So... anyone have a used 175 electronic or pulse start ballast they want to sell me ($$cheap$$)?

[jmt]

Von: I have used DE and SE ballasts to fire DE bulbs. I must say, I made a 70w and a 150w pendant using "SE" ballasts since they're cheaper, pre-assembled, and easier to come by. I never once had a problem with flicker. Their stats are pretty damn close.

 

As much as I can tell, the SE ballast would slightly prolong the life of the DE bulb, but as a result, the output would be a little less.

 

Of course that's just an educated guess, since I don't have the tools to do the required testing.

[blackachino]

does anyone know what these stand for? Se and DE, assuming that there is come kind of wavelength difference, or difference in filament, I would probably guess that the ballasts can "Sense" the difference in the bulbs, its actually not quite that magical - if i remember correctly (unless i was too deeply asleep in class) I'm pretty sure its possible for you to design a circuit which finds the *peak* voltage/resistance to provide a load (bulb in this case) with the optimum settings for use - i.e. the ballasts would be able to *switch* itself into either 150W or 175W setting... HTH