4-tank, vertical build

[crawdads57]

Ok, I think I would opt for a T connector and a cap. So this has a low profile strainer on the inside, correct? Must be. So if I were to use a 3/4" bulkhead I should be good up to 400gph according to the chart below as found at http://www.reefaquarium.com/2012/aquarium-plumbing-basics/

 

 

But am I blocking some of that throughput capacity with the low profile strainer? Is the difference appreciable? I'm planning to shoot for 300gph throughput as in roughly 30X any single display tanks' actual water volume. Seems like that should be sufficient and I can always turn it down if I have to with a valve.

 

Do you think the 3/4" low profile strainer would handle 300gph? It feels like it would just looking at the ones you linked, but IDK. I'm trying to stick to the 3/4" bulkhead so that I don't have to drill the 1-3/4" holes a 1" bulkhead requires, thereby allowing me to get them a little higher and further apart etc. If I have a total of 7.5" width t owork with (on the 12.7G high) and I have to keep these hole edges 1" from the tank edges (and top) and also at least 1" from each other (edge to edge), then 1-3/8" holes are a little easier to deal with than 1-3/4". Sticking to the 3/4" seems like its going to be making it easier for me to get the flexible PVC around the shelves and down to the next tank. I used the 1" hardware on my 15G cube and that 1" flex PVC is some rigid stuff. I'm just hoping 3/4" would be more manageable.

 

Now I feel like I'm getting somewhere - I appreciate your help!

 

 

Now that I think about it, I guess I have an automatic 90* bend in there using either an elbow or T connector, so that's knocking some capacity off the 400gph gravity rating already. Maybe 1" would be a better bet - ?

[crawdads57]

And just taking a break from the plumbing talk, look at how weird these umbrella mushrooms are.

 

 

Well, I think they're weird anyways, lol. Not like any other mushrooms I've ever had - they are far more "muscular" so to speak.

 

They are both pretty big, but the one has turned itself out in an almost perfect circle, and the other is concave like always. The "convex" one has turned pink, and the other is totally green. He's been like this while the lights are on for several days - they both close up at night intermittently.

 

Sorry for the crappy iphone pic, but I think you can see the shapes at least.

[seabass]

So if I were to use a 3/4" bulkhead I should be good up to 400gph according to the chart below as found at http://www.reefaquarium.com/2012/aquarium-plumbing-basics/

Assuming that's correct, I believe that it would have to be a full siphon gravity drain. You typically get much lower recommendations from Durso drains.

 

But am I blocking some of that throughput capacity with the low profile strainer? Is the difference appreciable?

I don't believe the strainer is restricting much flow. I think the pipe diameter is the main limiting factor.

 

I'm planning to shoot for 300gph throughput as in roughly 30X any single display tanks' actual water volume. Seems like that should be sufficient and I can always turn it down if I have to with a valve.

I wouldn't recommend trying to get all of your flow via the return pump. Besides, that's a lot of flow for your refugium and sump. You can add powerheads to the individual display tanks to get the flow you want for each. However, a Quiet One 3000 (375gph @ 7' head pressure) should be able to do what you want.

 

Do you think the 3/4" low profile strainer would handle 300gph? It feels like it would just looking at the ones you linked, but IDK.

I think the strainer would handle it. Although you probably couldn't have a nozzle at the end.

 

Now that I think about it, I guess I have an automatic 90* bend in there using either an elbow or T connector, so that's knocking some capacity off the 400gph gravity rating already. Maybe 1" would be a better bet - ?

I suppose.

[crawdads57]

Ok, I was intending to put powerheads in each display, so what do you feel an optimum rate would be for the return? I measured my 15G cube set-up at 180gph. I use 2 small korallias in there also. I wish the return was a little more, but then again, its a cube and has a totally different flow pattern than these long tanks will have. Maybe I should tone it down fom 300gph, but I think I'll get a many different answers to that question.

 

Totally different question: I just read someone say that using acrylic baffles in a glass sump is a bad plan. I had intended to use black acrylic for these "end walls". The guy stated that acrylic expands in water, which I'm not sure I buy, but thought I'd check.

[seabass]

Ok, I was intending to put powerheads in each display, so what do you feel an optimum rate would be for the return? ...I think I'll get a many different answers to that question

You're probably right (not everyone would agree). I was going to suggest 10 times turnover in your sump (or 150gph). Plus, a low flow refugium is said to uptake nutrients better than a higher flow fuge.

 

Totally different question: I just read someone say that using acrylic baffles in a glass sump is a bad plan. I had intended to use black acrylic for these "end walls". The guy stated that acrylic expands in water, which I'm not sure I buy, but thought I'd check.

Silicone doesn't adhere to acrylic the same as glass. So if the water level behind the wall is significantly different, than the water line in the display, pressure could potentially break the seal. I've seen where people have created a glass baffle and attached an acrylic skin onto it (to give it color and add notches).

 

The expansion rates are likely different too, but you would assume that the temperature is going to remain pretty stable. But I haven't heard that acrylic swells when wet.

[crawdads57]

I'm seeing all these posts that are making me think my acrylic walls are a bad idea and that they do absorb enough water to exert enough pressure on glass to break it - I had no idea. And I have an acrylic 15g cube, you would think that acrylic would be a terrible material to build an aquarium out of if it absorbed water - lol. Weird. I was trying to avoid little boxes all over the tank, but maybe they would look better than a cracked tank and 40 gallons of water on my floor...

 

Someone just told me to leave 1/16 on each side and that this would be enough to avoid cracking. I suppose i could make that look alright if I used black silicone. Thinking it through, that tall tank would be a serious PITA to silicone from the inside of the box I'm creating with the acrylic wall. I would have to silicone it on the display side. I suppose its best to use silicone on both sides, but I wasn;t really worried about a little leakage around the edges, I just want to keep the fish out of these spaces and make it look uncluttered.

[seabass]

I was trying to avoid little boxes all over the tank, but maybe they would look better than a cracked tank and 40 gallons of water on my floor...

I don't know about your caulking skills; but IMO, a nice overflow box or intake screen would look cleaner than an acrylic wall siliconed to the side. Remember, you don't have to mount them on the back, they can be on the side if you prefer.

[crawdads57]

I doubt my caulking skills are all that superb - lol. But now I've put a ton of effort into this schematic!!! Oh well, thanks for recommending this program - its awesome.

[RayWhisperer]

I ain't never heard of acrylic expanding due to water. That's not to say it isn't possible. I just never heard of it. I've made sump baffles out of acrylic before, and have never had a tank crack. Well, not from an acrylic baffle, anyway....

 

As for cutting it, I always shoot for about a 1/16" shy of the inside width. Any more and you need to gob the silicone in there. That thick silicone takes a long time to cure. Not the standard 24 hrs. As sea bass pointed out, silicone doesn't adhere as well to acrylic, as it does glass. However, as he also pointed out, if the water level between the baffles isn't too drastically different, it won't be a problem.

 

As for the drain lines, it's still my opinion to go 1". Yes, it's going to gurgle, all durso styles do. You won't get away from that, no matter how small you go. However, with at least 1 90, and any other restrictions you may create on the way down. Getting as much extra flow out of a drain as possible is important. At least that's my reasoning.

 

Sea bass pointed out lower flow is better for a refugium. I don't disagree. However, if you are still planning on 2, I don't see an issue with higher flow. The only issues I see are possibly starving out the second fuge, and perhaps, limiting the second fuge ability. The reason I think that may be an issue is what's called the Crassulacean Acid Metabolism. It's a function in photosynthesis. Or, at least I'm pretty sure that's a part of it. It's been many years since I took botany class in high school. Anyhow, getting back to my theory... I'm wondering if the second fuge, being limited on available co2, might not be able to properly photosythesise. I could be way off base here in the amount of co2 required. It may be miniscule. There may be more than enough available both remaining from fuge #1, as well as atmospherically available co2.... Just my thought process.

[crawdads57]

I was planning to do the reverse light schedule on the sump refugium trick. But, if I think the display refugium is suffering I can pull the chaeto - no biggie. I'm sure I can find something to do with that space if not chaeto. It would work for a bigger skimmer down the road, or some kind of reactor I guess. I'm not sure how worried I should be about the acrylic expanding, there are a lot of posts on RC about that being the case.

[crawdads57]

After some more thought and taking in to account the great suggestions here I think I'm going to go without those end walls. I think I'm just setting myself up to fail on those. By the time I buy the materials and screw around with installing them I might as well just make it easier on myself and bite the bullet on the overflow boxes you recommended in the first place, seabass. I can drill another hole for my emergency drains and just use an elbow for that. I also think I've figured out a way to hide the boxes just using the cabinetry itself. It's going to give me an additional 3" or so of viewing from left to right over the original plan, so I like that too.

 

I was trying to control the absolute height of the water using those walls, but again, I can just cut my "windows" in the cabinet door to hide the waterline. I'll just get it all put up and measured out before I build the front door. I wish I knew how the air bubbles are going to be, cascading down from the top tank to the middle and the middle to the bottom display. But I have a sufficient length on these tanks that I guess they won't be too harmful if I keep any coral a sufficient distance from the incoming bulkheads.

 

And I think I've decided to go with all 3 tanks being 12G longs. Basically I'm doing everything you recommended - lol.

 

Now, about that sump. Is there anything you can specifically recommend as being a great piece of equipment to use in place of the chaeto? Maybe I have the baffles configured wrong - maybe I should allow for a greater area where my return pump sits, since that is the area where I will have fluctuation from evaporation. Using 3 12G longs and the even greater surface area of the 30G sump is going to result in how much evaporation? I would be totally kidding myself if I thought I could predict that volume.

 

Maybe an ATO is a better use of the space. I could shift the return pump more to the middle and use the last compartment as an ATO reservoir. Man, this is going to get expensive quick.

[crawdads57]

Maybe I could have both the chaeto and the reservoir. Since I know how much you guys love my excel drawings I mocked it up - lol.

 

Drains, sock, purigen, protien skimmer, chaeto, carbon, return, reservoir.

 

[seabass]

The added surface area of the other tank won't make a huge difference in evaporation. However, I still think you might be underestimating the total amount.

 

If you have the room, an ATO reservoir can be convenient. However, I'm concerned that a 30 gallon sump, minus the volume of the reservoir, won't handle the back flow when the return pump is off.

 

You know my thoughts on the chaeto fuge. You will have a display fuge, so not only is it redundant and would require another light, but it will rob nutrients from your ornamental macros. I think a carbon reactor might be a better use of the space: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-gfo-carbon-reactor-single.html

[seabass]

On a side note, I'm not sure how easy it will be to tune three siphon drains. Durso drains would be easier (and look cleaner): although they might be a little noisier. Keeping the return flow down will help with the noise and bubbles.

[crawdads57]

Cool, I think I'll get the Nano con Dientes for the main overflows, and then use upturned elbows for the emergencies beside the boxes. I won't be tuning those or having any kind of valve etc. I want them to be noisy if they are draining.

 

Regarding the reservoir, I think I'll go without it. Not only does it limit my emergency level, but it also limits my water change volume, based on how much I can suck out before the return pump sucks air. I can just top off manually, I look at my sumps at least once a day anyways, checking my PS cup, etc.

 

I've never seen that style of reactor, I have a BRS RODI though. In my original plan I had a "funnel" made of glass pieces to drive all water through an area for a carbon bag I was going to set on top of some eggcrate. I have been using these in my 15G cube (in a HOB in the sump): Fluval. They rinse easily for me and at $3 per bag I think they're great for changing out monthly. I've never used any of the fancier reef carbon.

 

I realize this funnel idea isn't as good as the tumbling in a reactor, but my funnel idea has to be better than the HOB set up I have going on now.

[crawdads57]

And I see that while the Nano con Dientes are rated up to 300gph, the actual recommendation is 200gph, so that is what I'll shoot for, in the neighborhood of 15-20X each display tank's volume. With a valve of some kind to turn it down if I want. Do I need any certain kind of valve on a return line? Is there a type that is best? I've always just gone with what I get from a return pump, never needed to alter it.

[mwp]

 

3) Blue backs: I don't know either, but check out my conversation in full at http://www.rainbow-fish.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3122and then also see: http://www.miniwaters.fish/product/pseudomugil-cyanodorsalis-blueback-blue-eye-rainbowfish/ I said it was a gamble, but I would like to have *many* small fish in this small space. Check out the www.nano-reef.com logo. Its right up there. What are those little fish right above the "n" and the "o"? I wish someone would tell me, because that's the idea - lol. And no gobies or clown fish, that's not what I have envisioned. I can buy 20 P. cyanodorsalis shipped for under $120. Is there something else anyone could recommend - looking at the overall layout of the system? If I have to I'll settle for lemon chromis, but there has to be something else - right?

 

Ha...and sure enough, the other link I follow back tonight is you again Crawdads! So if you're looking for other small schooling type fishes to go in a tank wtth Bluebacks, I might suggest actually looking at the Redspot Cardinalfish that Kevin Kohen does through the Diver's Den at LiveAquaria. The reason I'm so specific about where to get them is because I know what lengths he goes through to ge them established and healthy before ever selling them there!

 

You might also look into Eviota Gobies (I know you said no gobies...but...Eviota are different). Masked Gobies are similar...social, up and swimming about and shoaling...and they're probably available to you quite cheaply locally since they are a native species. You could also consider a small pipefish species perhaps. Just throwing out some other ideas of things that might work well with something unique like the Bluebacks!

[crawdads57]

Cool, thank you for your recommendations. I have put this on the back burner for the time being as I concentrate on my corals a little more, but I had been recommended those two fish previously also. Seems like the Red Spots are expensive, but I do really like them. For the time being my green chromis are actually quite happy it seems and they are filling the gap I was looking for in my display. But thanks for the suggestions - they are on my ever growing list of "someday"

[RayWhisperer]

Ok, I was doing some reading on P. signifer, and stumbled across someone with true Ross River brackish. Well, they had them, at least. Somehow, I remembered your thread and dug it up. Don't know if you are still interested, but if you are....

 

http://www.21food.com/showroom/438600/product/rainbow-fish-ross-river-townesville.html

 

Don't know anything about this karma farms, or why it's on a 21 foods website....