UGH ICH :-(

[ReefWeeds]

1. Stellablue- I am so excited you wrote - (insert I am not worthy) You are so awesome! Thank Thank You!!

2. Here is where I say beginner stuff- I can do Rubbermaid tub but what is HOB? and seachem prime? Ammonia Badge? As for floss I just use a filter insert (the one Biocube recommends)

3. I am IN for whatever you suggest but just need to dumb it down.... for... "a friend"

4. THANK YOU- Can I say thank you again??? I really appreciate your expertise and will follow it!

I just love my clowns :-( Watching them look toe up is killing me! I don't have a spare powerhead or heater. And have to travel for work. So bummed. Good news is-Corals are not upset at all by treatment....I just wish my babies were looking better

 

This cracked me up

 

1. The excitement is definitely misplaced - 95% of the time I don't know what I'm doing The 5% is probably luck. And I'm certain everyone posting in this thread knows way more than me and many of them help me/have helped me in the past.

2. It's not beginner stuff. I should've typed it out but I hate typing on my iPhone! HOB = Hang on Back filter - something like an Aquaclear 70 or something. Something that will bring water through filtration. In this case, mostly for oxygenation since you don't run media with a hospital/quarantine tank. I think someone else suggested a powerhead and that works too. An ammonia badge is made by Seachem and I think an awesome and cheap way to monitor ammonia levels. Here's a link, but your LFS should have one too I'm thinking: http://smile.amazon.com/Seachem-67100100-Ammonia-Alert/dp/B000255R5G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463056194&sr=8-1&keywords=ammonia+badge. I'm not familiar with the biocube filter cartridges, but if it's got floss and stuff, then I would think it has some good bacteria to get things started. What I do for potential emergencies is keep some floss in my sump (you can put in a rear chamber) so I always know I have some bacteria ready to go. Don't ever put something from your QT/HT back into your main tank after treatment. You probably know this, but figured it was worth saying.

 

Not to be a downer, but it might be too late for your clowns if they are showing signs of further decline. But I would get everything you need to make sure you have stuff on hand in the event you run into this again in the future and also for QT'ing fish if that's what you decide to do.

 

for your current situation if you decide not to treat (saw you were traveling for work), I would make sure you are feeding your fish heavily with some good quality food like Rods, Larry's Reef Frenzy or a good quality frozen. Or if you won't be around, is there someone else that can feed them? New Life Spectrum Thera-A pellets are also good. If your fish aren't eating, try soaking in some garlic to entice them to eat. They need to build up their immune system.

 

Anyway, hope this helps.

Honestly a ten gallon tank will suffice. They cheap, readily available, and are designed to hold water.

 

A HOB is a hang on back filter. You ONLY should put filter floss from your main tank in it, and then stuff a bunch in to get as much biological filtration as possible. Do not use chemicals that neutralize ammonia, as they can react negatively with copper. I really suggest using cupramine. I've used/using it on very sensitive fish and it is perfectly safe. I bring the dosage .5 up from .1 over a period of five days. Make she you get a copper test kit as well.

 

Great tip! I didn't realize you couldn't use something like Prime in a HT.

[Hammerstone]

I understand your attachment and love of your clowns. I feel the same way about mine. Their like puppies. I can't help you but I'm rooting for you. Good luck!!!

[ReefWeeds]

Saw this post and thought it would be helpful! Another option to think about that isn't as hard on your fish:

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/373590-clowns-fought-off-ich-in-tank-without-treatment-now-what/?p=5331409

[mystersyster]

Great tip! I didn't realize you couldn't use something like Prime in a HT.

Hey hey no worries Stella. I'm not chemist, I just have heard horror stories. It's not necessary regardless. Five gallons of DT water and a bunch of filter floss works wonderfully. I've done it twice and detected 0 ammonia from the badge. It should be noted I'll do about two five gallon water changes before I tryst the biological filtration.

[mystersyster]

Wanted to show you how simple my tank is. This is the tried and true method of many reefers here on nano reef.

 

 

 

HOB w/ lots of filter floss.

 

Light

 

Heater (10 bucks on amazon)

 

Small Powerhead (optional but I recommend it)

 

Some pieces of 1 inch ID pvc pipe

 

Sreen top (optional but recommended)

 

As far as the sand, I do not recommend unless you have a sand sleeping fish like my melanurus. If you do get sand make sure its PH nuetral or it will suck up your copper medication.

 

If you get cupramine, the formala you should use is

 

.381 × (dose required ex. .5) x (gallons of water)

 

For my ten I raise from .1 to .5 over five days. First day I do .381 × .1(dose) × 10 (gallons). Then I test.

[Tamberav]

i have come to the same conclusion, seems like a way better solution than cupramine since your biological filtration can save you the headache of water changes, guess only time will tell

 

I am not sure if live rock would absorb it but I guess regular filter media or sponges would work fine for sure.

[Cencalfishguy56]

 

I am not sure if live rock would absorb it but I guess regular filter media or sponges would work fine for sure.

not gonna reuse the rock so I don't care

[Tamberav]

not gonna reuse the rock so I don't care

 

It may lesson the dose is my thought? I have no idea if it would actually absorb it though like copper.

[Cencalfishguy56]

 

It may lesson the dose is my thought? I have no idea if it would actually absorb it though like copper.

ooooh I gotcha, hmmm idk, have you read anything about it?

[msparklym13]

Awwwwww- All of your posts are the BEST! Thank you so much for the tips, the encouragement and being an awesome group! I woke up this morning to your posts and it made my heart happy. I truly appreciate such fabulous support to discuss ideas without judgement and working together to figure out the best way to tend to our fishy face friends :-)

As StellaBlue mentioned I am taking a quick trip for work tomorrow morning through Tuesday. I went to LFS today and chatted at length with the manager. Good guy and he likes me enough to text me an awesome DIY on algae scrubber (AMAZING).

Since I will be gone and it might be too far gone (sob) for my clowns I am going to have my trusty assistant (Husband) continue to dose tank. I took the advice of some and picked up a really meaty frozen and am soaking it in aquarium garlic. Today my room smelled like Garlic Fish Bread. Not sure how I feel about the duo but the Garlic made me think Italian dinner should happen STAT.

I had a thought and was wondering what you think- I asked my LFS manager to let me know about anyone who brings in a used system. He gets them all the time (ahhh he had a 250g for 500 in his car today!!) and am thinking about setting up a full time tank in my office for introducing new corals/fish and QT. I will not be getting any corals or fish for a few months given the situation so I have some time. I feel very strong about never introducing a fish or coral to my tank until they have spent some time in QT so if I could get a system I think it would be great! What do you think??

Please know how much I appreciate all of you! I feel so lucky to have joined a group of amazing people who are as passionate as I am about our tanks. Your time and thoughts have been so wonderful and I think you are awesome!!! Best, Marianne

 

 

As you are finding out, there is no such thing as a reef safe med that really works, its not strong enough. I suggest Chloroquine phosphate or Cupramine (need a copper test kit with this one).

 

http://kmaintl.com/product-category/misc to purchase CP. This is probably the safest route but ofc waiting for it to arrive delays treatment.

The website gave a few options but for a 29 which would you recommend? I am going to buy it to have on hand just in case... Thank you so much!

I understand your attachment and love of your clowns. I feel the same way about mine. Their like puppies. I can't help you but I'm rooting for you. Good luck!!!

Thank you!!!! :-)

[Tamberav]

Awwwwww- All of your posts are the BEST! Thank you so much for the tips, the encouragement and being an awesome group! I woke up this morning to your posts and it made my heart happy. I truly appreciate such fabulous support to discuss ideas without judgement and working together to figure out the best way to tend to our fishy face friends :-)

As StellaBlue mentioned I am taking a quick trip for work tomorrow morning through Tuesday. I went to LFS today and chatted at length with the manager. Good guy and he likes me enough to text me an awesome DIY on algae scrubber (AMAZING).

Since I will be gone and it might be too far gone (sob) for my clowns I am going to have my trusty assistant (Husband) continue to dose tank. I took the advice of some and picked up a really meaty frozen and am soaking it in aquarium garlic. Today my room smelled like Garlic Fish Bread. Not sure how I feel about the duo but the Garlic made me think Italian dinner should happen STAT.

I had a thought and was wondering what you think- I asked my LFS manager to let me know about anyone who brings in a used system. He gets them all the time (ahhh he had a 250g for 500 in his car today!!) and am thinking about setting up a full time tank in my office for introducing new corals/fish and QT. I will not be getting any corals or fish for a few months given the situation so I have some time. I feel very strong about never introducing a fish or coral to my tank until they have spent some time in QT so if I could get a system I think it would be great! What do you think??

Please know how much I appreciate all of you! I feel so lucky to have joined a group of amazing people who are as passionate as I am about our tanks. Your time and thoughts have been so wonderful and I think you are awesome!!! Best, Marianne

The website gave a few options but for a 29 which would you recommend? I am going to buy it to have on hand just in case... Thank you so much!

Thank you!!!! :-)

 

Chloroquine is typically dosed at a rate of 10 to 20 milligrams per liter (mg/l), with 15 mg/l being considered a "standard dose" (Hemdal 2006). Note: in most instances, solutions measured in "milligrams per liter" are equivalent to "parts per million" or ppm.

The 10 mg/l dose should be used as a quarantine preventative (not for active diseases), or for treating delicate species (although little is known about the sensitivity of different fish species to this medication). A dose of 15 mg/l is considered the normal dose for treating most protozoan infections, while the 20 mg/l dose would be reserved for attempting to eradicate difficult-to-treat Uronema marinum infections.

One trick to improve accuracy of a measurement is to make a stock solution, and then use a small quantity of that to dose the tank. The reason this works well is that home aquarists generally can measure small volumes of a liquid easier than they can weigh small amounts of a powder. For example, if you need to treat a 10 gallon aquarium with chloroquine at 10 mg/l, you would need to add 376 mg of the drug to the tank, a very small amount to try and weigh out. If you can more easily weigh out a single gram (a nice round amount), you can dissolve that into 12 teaspoons of distilled water, and then add 4 ½ teaspoon of that solution to the 10 gallon tank. For increased accuracy, you can buy a volumetric medicine dosing spoon. These can be used much like a graduated cylinder for measuring accurate amounts of a stock solution. For this example, you would add one gram of chloroquine to 100 milliliters of distilled water, and then add 37.6 ml of that stock solution to the aquarium.

Do you have a food scale by chance?

Check this article, it has ideas and MATH

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/fish

Otherwise, if it will work with your setup, you could only put 20g of water in the 29g.

[msparklym13]

 

This cracked me up

 

1. The excitement is definitely misplaced - 95% of the time I don't know what I'm doing The 5% is probably luck. And I'm certain everyone posting in this thread knows way more than me and many of them help me/have helped me in the past.

2. It's not beginner stuff. I should've typed it out but I hate typing on my iPhone! HOB = Hang on Back filter - something like an Aquaclear 70 or something. Something that will bring water through filtration. In this case, mostly for oxygenation since you don't run media with a hospital/quarantine tank. I think someone else suggested a powerhead and that works too. An ammonia badge is made by Seachem and I think an awesome and cheap way to monitor ammonia levels. Here's a link, but your LFS should have one too I'm thinking: http://smile.amazon.com/Seachem-67100100-Ammonia-Alert/dp/B000255R5G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463056194&sr=8-1&keywords=ammonia+badge. I'm not familiar with the biocube filter cartridges, but if it's got floss and stuff, then I would think it has some good bacteria to get things started. What I do for potential emergencies is keep some floss in my sump (you can put in a rear chamber) so I always know I have some bacteria ready to go. Don't ever put something from your QT/HT back into your main tank after treatment. You probably know this, but figured it was worth saying.

 

Not to be a downer, but it might be too late for your clowns if they are showing signs of further decline. But I would get everything you need to make sure you have stuff on hand in the event you run into this again in the future and also for QT'ing fish if that's what you decide to do.

 

for your current situation if you decide not to treat (saw you were traveling for work), I would make sure you are feeding your fish heavily with some good quality food like Rods, Larry's Reef Frenzy or a good quality frozen. Or if you won't be around, is there someone else that can feed them? New Life Spectrum Thera-A pellets are also good. If your fish aren't eating, try soaking in some garlic to entice them to eat. They need to build up their immune system.

 

Anyway, hope this helps.

 

Great tip! I didn't realize you couldn't use something like Prime in a HT.

Ah! At least I can make you laugh- Your advice is awesome and I really appreciate your help and dumbing it down ;-) I took your advice on Garlic and bought the best possible food at LFS- I have been using the 50/50 for the past few months but bought the Brine- Clowns weren't into it but my shrimp hoarded and took to his food den. Granted he will do that with pellets to. He is just a hog! Do you or anyone else know if this is Quality? If not I will order better food online.

[phillyclownfish]

I'm currently running CP in my QT. Had a sick tang that passed but dosing CP to ensure my other three fish are healthy. Not letting any direct light near the QT is what I read is best when using CP.

[msparklym13]

Wanted to show you how simple my tank is. This is the tried and true method of many reefers here on nano reef.

 

 

 

HOB w/ lots of filter floss.

 

Light

 

Heater (10 bucks on amazon)

 

Small Powerhead (optional but I recommend it)

 

Some pieces of 1 inch ID pvc pipe

 

Sreen top (optional but recommended)

 

As far as the sand, I do not recommend unless you have a sand sleeping fish like my melanurus. If you do get sand make sure its PH nuetral or it will suck up your copper medication.

 

If you get cupramine, the formala you should use is

 

.381 × (dose required ex. .5) x (gallons of water)

 

For my ten I raise from .1 to .5 over five days. First day I do .381 × .1(dose) × 10 (gallons). Then I test.

How are your fish doing??

[mystersyster]

How are your fish doing??

They are the same as they've ever been. Other than the itching that comes with a mild ich infestation, they're eating great and doing fishy stuff. I got my cupramine dose up to .45-.5 today, so let it be known that 5/12/16 + 90 days will be when they're reintroduced to my DT. Also, this is the same procedure they endured back in December. Unfortunately, I believe I got some ich parasites from a coral frag at a LFS here in Washington. Therefore I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER IN A MILLION EFFING YEARS introduce ANY piece of livestock without QTing it for 3 months. It's just not worth it. By the time this second ordeal is done, I will have had my fish in my QT tank for half as long as it's been running. Which isn't all that fun. Anyway, good luck. Lots of lessons and wisdom to be learned from these terrible situations.

 

Edit: I've lost fish, many I've cared deeply about. It's never easy, and the connection between fish and men is kinda silly to some, but very real. So I hope that everything goes alright, and don't let it get you down if you lose some fish.

[ReefWeeds]

Ah! At least I can make you laugh- Your advice is awesome and I really appreciate your help and dumbing it down ;-) I took your advice on Garlic and bought the best possible food at LFS- I have been using the 50/50 for the past few months but bought the Brine- Clowns weren't into it but my shrimp hoarded and took to his food den. Granted he will do that with pellets to. He is just a hog! Do you or anyone else know if this is Quality? If not I will order better food online.

 

The 50/50 sounds good for nutrition. I've always read that brine shrimp isn't very nutritious for fish - it's more equivalent to a snack like potato chips but for fish. They like it but not much nutritional value. I'd go with mysis or a mix like marine cuisine or something like that. My stores around here do NOT have a good selection of frozen. One carries Rod's and I will pick some up when there, but other than that, not much selection. I generally order frozen online and most recently from Marine Depot. The experience was great - they pack with dry ice and everything was rock hard frozen still when I got it. Shipping is $20 so you want to make sure you order enough to make the shipping worth it.

[msparklym13]

 

The 50/50 sounds good for nutrition. I've always read that brine shrimp isn't very nutritious for fish - it's more equivalent to a snack like potato chips but for fish. They like it but not much nutritional value. I'd go with mysis or a mix like marine cuisine or something like that. My stores around here do NOT have a good selection of frozen. One carries Rod's and I will pick some up when there, but other than that, not much selection. I generally order frozen online and most recently from Marine Depot. The experience was great - they pack with dry ice and everything was rock hard frozen still when I got it. Shipping is $20 so you want to make sure you order enough to make the shipping worth it.

What food do you get?

[ReefWeeds]

What food do you get?

 

Well, I have a variety and feed a variety - so not sure this is going to help I feed V2o soft frozen (micro plankton, coral mix, reef caviar), V2o cyclops, Rod's fish eggs, Rod's original, frozen mysis and San Francisco Marine Cuisine. I also feed NSL small fish pellets and Thera-A pellets.

[msparklym13]

Happy Saturday!

So- 8 days in and no real improvement or deterioration and I left my fish friends with Husband and kiddos. I did a water change before leaving, dosed and will continue to do so for 30 days... Hopefully my sweet Clowns will pull through! Will update next week..Have a great weekend!

[mystersyster]

Happy Saturday!

So- 8 days in and no real improvement or deterioration and I left my fish friends with Husband and kiddos. I did a water change before leaving, dosed and will continue to do so for 30 days... Hopefully my sweet Clowns will pull through! Will update next week..Have a great weekend!

Glad to hear everything is going okay. I lost my starry blenny (the family favorite) to ich last night. He was eating well the day before,yet stopped eating and finally gave in last night. Very sad to see how quick this parasite can affect the gills of a fish in such a short period.

[Hammerstone]

Glad to hear everything is going okay. I lost my starry blenny (the family favorite) to ich last night. He was eating well the day before,yet stopped eating and finally gave in last night. Very sad to see how quick this parasite can affect the gills of a fish in such a short period.

sorry

[msparklym13]

HI!!!

I am back in town after a whirlwind work trip leaving no time to do anything but deal with on site problems. I got home late last night and this morning I tended to my tank, went to the DMV (UGH), kids to bed and finally get to check in with NR!

All fish are alive and sort of ok. Clowns still look like shit, firefish and Goby still fine. My husband was awesome and followed my instructions. All but one coral seems good but I am noticing so much more algae and overall debris. I think the meaty food, garlic and herbtana dosing is too much for my tank.

At this point I want my fish forum peeps advice:

1. I have dosed tank for almost 14 days with no difference in Clowns appearance- see photos- They are still eating and acting normal

2. One of my corals has closed up and has not blossomed in 6 days-this is one of my first corals and it typically "sleeps" until I turn the lights on and then blossoms within moments. Photo of what it looks like now and what it typically looks like.

What I am seeking are ideas with the above. I did not dose my tank with Herbtana tonight and fed my clowns the dry pellets they like. At this point my thought are to quit using the Herbtana and see if it opens up my coral. What do you think?

I hope everyone had a great weekend and week so far! Best, Marianne

P.S. First photo is light- Clown does not have a bright white nose ;-)

[seabass]

... At this point I want my fish forum peeps advice:

1. I have dosed tank for almost 14 days with no difference in Clowns appearance- see photos- They are still eating and acting normal

2. One of my corals has closed up and has not blossomed in 6 days-this is one of my first corals and it typically "sleeps" until I turn the lights on and then blossoms within moments. Photo of what it looks like now and what it typically looks like.

What I am seeking are ideas with the above.

My advice remains the same.

I recommend treating your fish in a hospital tank. This could be a 10 gallon tank from Walmart, or even a Rubbermaid Brute container. Like Clown79 stated, you'll need to leave your reef tank fallow for 6 to 8 weeks.

 

In my experience, not treating in another tank led to losing all of my fish (there is no reef safe remedy that is completely effective). It was a sad experience.

The longer you wait, the less likely they will be able to handle the stress of getting transferred to the hospital tank.

 

We tend to gravitate towards what we want to hear, and these forums often provide opposing opinions (providing a solution you might like). However, what's best isn't always what we want to hear. You've been given enough options and information to make an informed decision. I'd read through the thread again, from start to finish, and make a call.

[msparklym13]

My advice remains the same.

The longer you wait, the less likely they will be able to handle the stress of getting transferred to the hospital tank.

 

We tend to gravitate towards what we want to hear, and these forums often provide opposing opinions (providing a solution you might like). However, what's best isn't always what we want to hear. You've been given enough options and information to make an informed decision. I'd read through the thread again, from start to finish, and make a call.

Your advice is solid. I honestly think it is too late for my Clowns. It has been 3 weeks and 2 weeks with Herbtana. I had an emergency work trip for the past 5 days. Personally I think moving them to a QT will probably kill them. Stella mentioned the same. I am learning from this experience but now wondering more about my coral. We are setting up a full time QT in my office next week so I never encounter this again. I might move the clowns but worry they won't be able to cope. Meanwhile I am wondering why my coral isn't opening and was wondering if you have any ideas-?

[seabass]

I'd at least give the clownfish a chance and get them away from the life sucking parasites. If you are worried about the move killing them, doing nothing might yield the same result.

 

Then I'd do a big water change and add activated carbon to try and give your corals a better environment to recover in.