jedimasterben Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Right, ATI fixtures are set up so that two lamps are on one channel and the remaining lamps are on the other, doesn't matter if the fixture has four lamps or ten. Link to comment
gus6464 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Good point! But ATI only has 2 channels, right? (at least the dimmable version) whereas PS has 4 channels Yep 2. But why do you need more? So you can get an old school powermodule unit? Not the new ones with LED but the T5 only ones? Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 What I meant with having two channels, is that if 4 tubes come on at once, thats quite bright for a sunrise, the same thing with sunset 4 tubes (at 100% power) is very bright. PS come on in pairs so 160W at a time, not 320W (on 8 x80W). Assuming that's how the ATI is programmed, UNLESS the two tubes that come on/off are used for sunrise / sunset, therefor the reminding 6 or 8 tubes don't matter that they ALL come on together? I can get: T5 Sunpower T5 sun power dimmable T5 Powermodule T5 Powermodule dimmable. All 8x80W. The oldest units are a lot more money too. Like £200-£300 more Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Giesmann could be around £600 without tubes, but take up to 3 weeks to build... It seems they also don't have fans and are usually at around 35C. David Saxby uses these too. (or he did) No fans means no humid air is drawn into the fixture and potentially corroding it. I wonder if that why all the used ATI unit reflectors are covered in what looks like rust. Link to comment
Horerczy Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Aluminum doesn't rust. Not sure what that buildup is. Link to comment
DaveFason Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Giesmann could be around £600 without tubes, but take up to 3 weeks to build... It seems they also don't have fans and are usually at around 35C. David Saxby uses these too. (or he did) No fans means no humid air is drawn into the fixture and potentially corroding it. I wonder if that why all the used ATI unit reflectors are covered in what looks like rust. I have done a TON of things to different Sunpowers are rarely see rust on reflectors. Majority of the time it is salt creep/ junk that is just over time stuck to it. I have seen some Sunpowers come out of canopies that look like death but everything does after being in a canopy. Personally I think you are over thinking the unit ( please dont be offended! ). If you are wanting a Hybrid go ATI ( wish you were over in US and I could make you a NanoBox RETRO with a Sunpower ). If you are wanting regular T5, go ATI Sunpower and loose the dimming. You will be just as happy. Link to comment
gus6464 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 It's not really rust but tarnish. ATI reflectors have a silver coating on them which will cause them to tarnish over time when near humid areas just like jewelry would. A good way to keep the reflectors in great shape is to give them a good cleaning once a year with silver polish. If they are really badly tarnished you can rejuvenate them somewhat by doing the following: 1. Get a square container of some sort that can hold the entire reflector. 2. Wrap the front of the reflector in aluminum foil. 3. With the reflector in the container submerge them in hot water 4. Add baking soda to the hot water 5. Leave reflector in solution for 5 minutes 6. Take out reflector, remove foil and rinse. 7. Buff the reflector with silver polish 8. You might have to repeat steps 1-6 if it's badly tarnished. Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 It's not really rust but tarnish. ATI reflectors have a silver coating on them which will cause them to tarnish over time when near humid areas just like jewelry would. A good way to keep the reflectors in great shape is to give them a good cleaning once a year with silver polish. If they are really badly tarnished you can rejuvenate them somewhat by doing the following: 1. Get a square container of some sort that can hold the entire reflector. 2. Wrap the front of the reflector in aluminum foil. 3. With the reflector in the container submerge them in hot water 4. Add baking soda to the hot water 5. Leave reflector in solution for 5 minutes 6. Take out reflector, remove foil and rinse. 7. Buff the reflector with silver polish 8. You might have to repeat steps 1-6 if it's badly tarnished. That's the right description - a tarnish. Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 I have done a TON of things to different Sunpowers are rarely see rust on reflectors. Majority of the time it is salt creep/ junk that is just over time stuck to it. I have seen some Sunpowers come out of canopies that look like death but everything does after being in a canopy. Personally I think you are over thinking the unit ( please dont be offended! ). If you are wanting a Hybrid go ATI ( wish you were over in US and I could make you a NanoBox RETRO with a Sunpower ). If you are wanting regular T5, go ATI Sunpower and loose the dimming. You will be just as happy. As above it is more of a tarnish than rust... I overthink EVERYTHING! And worry too much. PS told me that, but then they also said my light would be fixed... It's not so I've suggested remote access so they can program/see for themselves what is going on. I've no interest in LED's at all, although I did look at you Hybrid . It's (all your lights) are the best designed and probably at the very top of craftsmanship. If I was over there, the Hybrid would be mine for sure. My concern without dimming is dawn/dusk, still not entirely sure how ATI tubes are turned on i.e in pairs to two, or two then the remaining tubes come on at once? I high light fixture could be a problem as I'm sitting at my desk 3metres away and could get glare. The Giesemann Matrixx II looks really nice. It's only the 8 tube that has "silent fans" and the other have passive cooling as they believe/researched 35C is optimum temperature for T5. My gosh their reflectors are QUALITY. No risk of bends or cutting wrist on those things. I've emailed Giesemann UK to ask for prices (without tubes) and lead times on the 8x80W non dimmable. Honestly with so much cost going into this build, a couple £100's isn't going to make much difference, but the lead time are the issue. Thanks everyone! Link to comment
sangheili Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Hate to say I told you so I've had many long conversations with Pacific Sun support through email and they are some of the most stubborn people I have ever encountered. Takes days to resolve simple things. Their dosers have many of the same issues and I now refuse to do firmware updates or change anything out of fear of everything becoming corrupted and bricked again. I have never owned the Sunpower line, only the Powermodules (2 T5 only and 1 Hybrid). The powermodule's build quality is insane. They are made with extruded aluminum channel that locks together (similar to 80/20 channel you see some people build tank stands out of). The larger Gissemanns have fans but smaller do not. I have always wanted to try one of those fixtures out and compare PAR to an ATI, but haven't had the chance yet. Hopefully they become much more popular in the US so I can eventually pickup a used one. The ATI fixtures (without controllers) will have two power cables. One power cable is for a single pair of bulbs. The second power cable is for every other bulb. Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Indeed! It took over 20 emails for PS to realise that the tubes don't work to the timers I have set. A lot more emails were sent last night and I have suggested someone has remote access to my laptop and camera so they can see for themselves that nothing makes the light work correctly. They denied the fact that I sent in 4 separate videos to prove this myself. The Giesemann with 8 tubes has two "silent" fans - they look quite large like computer fans. I've emailed them to ask for a price without tubes and lead times as they are made to order. (site suggest 1-3 weeks which is too long ) So with the ATI (non dimmable) would two tubes come on at once, then the remaining tubes come on later? So this would simulate a sunrise sunset in a way? Giesemann Matrixx II looks very superior to both PS (obviously) and ATI. Slight downside is that the side frame needs removing when replacing the tubes, but it's still very sleek. If they can sell me it without the tubes within 2 weeks, I'm sold! Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Giesemann have emailed stating they won't ship the unit without tubes and it won't be here until 2nd or 3rd week in January ! By which time all my corals would have died. Argh, I really want a Giesemann but it's going to take far too long, so ATI is it! Can anyone confirm the fans are near silent? I've read around 20db but many people replace them still? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Run at higher power levels, they are incredibly loud. I could not believe how loud they were in my Sunpower. I swapped them out, but I also took out two 39w tubes and replaced them with around 200 watts of LEDs, so I needed the extra fannage to keep everything inside cool. Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Oh really 25dB isn't too loud, assuming that what they actually are. Were the replacement fans the same size, just quiter and more efficient? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Oh really 25dB isn't too loud, assuming that what they actually are. Were the replacement fans the same size, just quiter and more efficient? Calling the fans 25dB is like saying that Hitler wasn't really that bad of a guy The fans were in the 45-50dB range at full power. The fans that I replaced them with are much quieter, but also 10mm larger, so i had to glue them in place. Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 That is loud! PS are at 50dB (their "exclusive manufacturer state 18db")... Do you know the details of the fans that come with it? Just so I can see the cubic volume of air that are needed and look at quiter options. Looking at the closure, larger fans would fit, but like you did, glue is needed! Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Great. The UK suppliers of ATI said they won't get any in for 2 more weeks because many people are ditching LED to move to T5 (like me!) I've asked Giesemann if it's at all possible to have one made within 2 weeks... Hmmm, might need to buy a small inexpensive T5 for now and use that for my algae bed. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Unfortunately I cannot find where I wrote down the stock fan data. They really don't put out a lot of it and they spin extremely fast, BUT Bulk Reef Supply recently did a video on the Sunpower testing the PAR levels at various fan voltages, and I think they came up with ~6v being the best for the lamps to get closest to their optimal operating temperature. I would look for a slim fan in the 35-40CFM range. Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Giesemann can get build the white model within 2 weeks... £800 compared to £500 with ATI for 8 x 80W. Also learnt that the Giesemann has 3 cables coming out of it and required 3 external wall timers! Perhaps that £300 would be better spent on an Aluminium frame? (instead of wood) Link to comment
gus6464 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Giesemann can get build the white model within 2 weeks... £800 compared to £500 with ATI for 8 x 80W. Also learnt that the Giesemann has 3 cables coming out of it and required 3 external wall timers! Perhaps that £300 would be better spent on an Aluminium frame? (instead of wood) I thought the Matrix II was bluetooth controlled? Why does it have 3 wall plugs? Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 The Dimtec version is, but the standard isn't really controlled, just turned on and off. The tubes are split into 3 groups of 4-2-2. Dimtec is an extra £140 but I would never use it with the 4-2-2 on/off options. ATI should be in stock on the 16th, so 5 days before Giesemann... The off-putting thing about ATI is that only 2 tubes come on, then 6 which seems intense to me. Of course it's dimmable so that can help, but I'm done with messing around with settings which is why I hate LED's now. In other news; aquarium glass has been cut! I haven't finalised the cabinet so the sump won't be cut until I know. My plan is aluminium frame clad in 5mm thick black acrylic with either velcro or magnetic connections so I can just pull the panels off for access. It's a bit of a hassle but I don't have the space to open one of the cabinet doors and they always seem to be in the way! I'm going for a similar style to the Reefer series whereby the cabinet is completely flush with the aquarium. Sliding doors were/are and option but that would mean having a an exposed aluminium frame which I don't like. Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Sump light My sump will be at least 100L minimum and I want it to keep algae from growing in the display. I don't want the hassle of a scrubber so I was going to have two sections for two macro algae? I've seen a 3 tube T5 54W on the bay, but if I'm using 640W on the display, won't the algae just grow in the display anyway? I know light is just one requirement for algae... Link to comment
Horerczy Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Leave the sump light on longer. Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 Until I have a fixture, perhaps this would cover my corals for now and I can use it for the refugium? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/T5-14Wx3-Aquarium-Fisht-Tank-Overhead-White-Light-Aluminum-Lamp-3-Working-Mode-/131335899336?hash=item1e943ac8c8:g:SRcAAOSwY45UUf2j Link to comment
Nstocks Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 Well, my ATI light just arrived early! Morons sent the wrong f****** unit. This is the non-dimmable version. It's a lot lighter than the PS and has much better joins and fittings, but why don't they centre the fans in the unit? Reflectors are a LOT better too, thicker with overlapping joints, like the Giesemann. Link to comment
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