hang on refugium

[chappy6107]

I am setting up my first tank. It is a cube style tank and it is an aio style. however the chamber portions are in the hood and I am not using the hood.

 

I have a hang on refugium that is not a gravity return style it sits flush with the top of the tank see pic

 

 

 

Can some one point me to a diagram or help me understand the safest set up for the pump and plumbing so that I do not flood my floors? Tank is not drilled and would have to use u tubes

[chappy6107]

bump

[ajmckay]

Do you know the manufacturer?

 

I'm personally not aware of a design like this. Seems like it wouldn't work at first glance. I can't figure out how you would effectively match the inflow and outflow. 2 pumps wouldn't work as even if they started out with the exact same flow they would quickly diverge. Using 2 u tubes doesn't seem like it would work either for the same reason. Near as I can tell this design necessitates the matching of inflows to outflows and I can't think of any way to consistently match those 2 flows.

 

Has it been modified at all? Maybe someone hacked off the top gravity outflow part?

 

Maybe this was intended to sit inside the tank below the rim?

 

Sorry this is a tough one, hopefully you come across it's intended use (or think of one of your own) through your research.

[Benny314]

I'm with ajmckay on this one.

If it has a pump in the return chamber of the refugium the only possible way to make it work is to have an overflow box type gravity syphon feeding the unit. So as water is returned to the display tank the gravity syphon would take it back to the refugium.

The only way to do this would be to have a surface level pickup or overflow box in the display to set the level before it syphon's to the refugium. Give me a minute and I'll try and draw what I mean with good old paint lol....

[Benny314]

 

I really have far to much time on my hands sometimes at work.

 

Basically you need someway of setting a constant water height in the display (either a loop in the pick up pipe or an overflow weir), the way that refugium is designed it will give you a lower water level in the refugium compared to the display allowing a gravity syphon to work.

The issue will be priming the u tube and keeping it from getting air in it and breaking the syphon. This is done all the time with overflow boxes but it's never fool proof. As soon as the syphon gets broken if there's more water in the return chamber from the refugium than the tank can hold you'll get a flood.

[dandelion]

Is the utube fixed to that side of the fuge? I'm wondering if it's supposed to hang inside the tank like ajmckay said. If it's lose, I suppose you can hang it onto the other side and attach a pump to it, then drill a hole on the other side of the fuge below your waterline to act as an intake.

[chappy6107]

no brand name on it. however i notice that I cut off part of the picture that shows a very small overflow box that hangs inside the aquarium. I will snap another pic and update in a few minutes. It looks like the right side pic that benny posted above.

[chappy6107]

Here is the pic of the unit showing the small overflow box inside the tank. It did not come with the u tube, the guy I bought the tank from said he used this and I would need to pick up a u tube and a small pump.

 

[Benny314]

Yeah you need a syphon tube in the overflow and into the first chamber, then probably no more than a 400-600lph pump hooked up to that return pipe.

[dandelion]

I wonder why they have to overthink this HOB fuge design. They could have gotten away with something like the finnex HOB fuge or marina HOB breeder. Only catch is the pump will have to be in the display tank.

 

Or they could have followed the design of AquaClear HOB filter.

 

 

Here is the pic of the unit showing the small overflow box inside the tank. It did not come with the u tube, the guy I bought the tank from said he used this and I would need to pick up a u tube and a small pump.

 

 

[chappy6107]

Yeah you need a syphon tube in the overflow and into the first chamber, then probably no more than a 400-600lph pump hooked up to that return pipe.

Thanks Benny. I figured that was the only way this set up would work. As far as the pump, could I use a skimmer style pump that has the air inlet tube...run that air tube over to the u tube in chamber 1. then if any air makes it into the u tube, this pump pulls the air out? Just a thought to help prevent a siphon break at some point. I have a skimmer pump and have the u tube on order from amazon right now. Figured I would test running it in the garage on an empty tank before setting it up in the house.

 

 

I wonder why they have to overthink this HOB fuge design. They could have gotten away with something like the finnex HOB fuge or marina HOB breeder. Only catch is the pump will have to be in the display tank.

 

Or they could have followed the design of AquaClear HOB filter.

 

 

Hi Dandelion,

I do like those other fuge designs as far as the gravity output, but since this one I have came free with the tank I figured I would give it a try. Just gives me a little worry about flooding my floors if I lose siphon.

[dandelion]

How big is the fuge? Also how much space do you have between the water level and the rim in your tank? If your tank can hold all the water dumped from your fuge then it won't flood. If the fuge holds a lot of water, you can either put rubble in there to take up space, or position the return pump higher so the pump will run dry and stop pumping water into the tank when the water level in the fuge goes too low.

 

Thanks Benny. I figured that was the only way this set up would work. As far as the pump, could I use a skimmer style pump that has the air inlet tube...run that air tube over to the u tube in chamber 1. then if any air makes it into the u tube, this pump pulls the air out? Just a thought to help prevent a siphon break at some point. I have a skimmer pump and have the u tube on order from amazon right now. Figured I would test running it in the garage on an empty tank before setting it up in the house.

 

 

 

Hi Dandelion,

I do like those other fuge designs as far as the gravity output, but since this one I have came free with the tank I figured I would give it a try. Just gives me a little worry about flooding my floors if I lose siphon.

[Benny314]

Yes a power head type pump with a venturi nozzle will work well as a fix for that to help keep the syphon. The only problem is if the power goes and the syphon brakes, when the power comes back on the pump might not pull all the air and restart the syphon quick enough.

Don't get a needle wheel one mind.

How big is the fuge? Also how much space do you have between the water level and the rim in your tank? If your tank can hold all the water dumped from your fuge then it won't flood. If the fuge holds a lot of water, you can either put rubble in there to take up space, or position the return pump higher so the pump will run dry and stop pumping water into the tank before the water level in the fuge goes too low.

 

There's a baffle system in this unit creating a return chamber so you can't accidently empty all the refugium into your DT and flood it.

[chappy6107]

How big is the fuge? Also how much space do you have between the water level and the rim in your tank? If your tank can hold all the water dumped from your fuge then it won't flood. If the fuge holds a lot of water, you can either put rubble in there to take up space, or position the return pump higher so the pump will run dry and stop pumping water into the tank before the water level in the fuge goes too low.

 

The fuge is rather large compared to the tank. I havent measured it yet, but it will probably hold ~2 gallons volume wise. Benny is right as it does have a baffle system in it so the whole fuge wouldnt empty, but I am not sure that the tank could hold the full amount from the return section. I like the idea of installing the return pump at a high position to prevent all of the return volume going to the DT.

[NinjaReefer]

Im not 100% sure, but I think you might be looking at this backwards. I think the pump goes inside the aquarium and pumps into the fuge. Then the fuge overflows through that U tube back into the tank. I think that black thing is supposed to hold the pump.

[chappy6107]

Im not 100% sure, but I think you might be looking at this backwards. I think the pump goes inside the aquarium and pumps into the fuge. Then the fuge overflows through that U tube back into the tank. I think that black thing is supposed to hold the pump.

then there would not be anything to prevent the water from just overflowing the fuge as the water would be pumped from the tank to the fuge, run through the baffles, then just overflow the return chamber. without a pump on the return chamber side, it would not go through the tube back to the aquarium.

[NinjaReefer]

A return syphon would go in the return chamber. Its the same idea you are talking about with a syphon tube only reversed.

 

I could be totally wrong. I cant really tell the baffel layout from the pictures, But the one I used to own worked as I described. I think the idea is that all the critters u breed in the fuge can flow back into the aquarium without being blended in the pump.

 

I think the U tube you have is the overflow return to the tank.

 

You might be able to find instructions for a Hang on Tank overflow. It uses the same idea.

[chappy6107]

I get the idea for not chopping up the critters in the fuge, but most hob fuges return water back to the tank by gravity. My hob fuge is not elevated above the tank so it has 2 u tubes that go over the rim into the tank

 

so the black u tube you see in the pic above is the return pipe and would need the pump attached to it vs the intake utube to get water back to the tank. If I am pushing water from the intake side then when it makes it through the fuge to the return side, the water rising wont just go into the black return u tube but also overflow the rim of the fuge spilling onto the floor. so this type of hob fuge needs the water pulled into the return pipe instead of pushed through the intake pipe. not sure if I am making sense but just trying to get some tips from others on the safest way to operate this type of fuge.

[NinjaReefer]

Im not sure I understand. lol

 

I think you are saying that you will pump water out of the fuge/lowering the water level in the fuge to creat a syphon from the main tank. If that is possible, it would be possible to do it the opposite way too.

 

It looks like the fuge sits about an inch higher than the main tank. It would make more sense to pump the water into the fuge and have it syphon back in the tank that is slightly lower. It looks like the fuge could handle a water level about 2 inches higher than the water level in the tank.

 

Any chance of getting a picture of the back chambers?

[dandelion]

I think his main concern here is that if siphon breaks the pump will keep pushing water into the fuge, overflowing it and then flood the floor. By putting the pump in the return we're talking about a much smaller water volume that'll be moved. That said it depends on how high the overflow box is positioned relative to display tank water level.

 

Im not sure I understand. lol

 

I think you are saying that you will pump water out of the fuge/lowering the water level in the fuge to creat a syphon from the main tank. If that is possible, it would be possible to do it the opposite way too.

 

It looks like the fuge sits about an inch higher than the main tank. It would make more sense to pump the water into the fuge and have it syphon back in the tank that is slightly lower. It looks like the fuge could handle a water level about 2 inches higher than the water level in the tank.

 

Any chance of getting a picture of the back chambers?

[chappy6107]

intake chamber

 

 

 

return chamber

 

 

 

Water in the aquarium will be at the red line

 

[chappy6107]

I think his main concern here is that if siphon breaks the pump will keep pushing water into the fuge, overflowing it and then flood the floor. By putting the pump in the return we're talking about a much smaller water volume that'll be moved. That said it depends on how high the overflow box is positioned relative to display tank water level.

 

^^^precisely! The tank water level is roughly 1 inch below the top of the over box

[dandelion]

Then it's easy to figure out! Get a tape measure and measure the inside length and width of your tank, and the volume of the return chamber. (Or volume of return chamber from top to the bottom of your return pump position) If you're feeling lazy during your leak test just break the siphon and see what happens.

 

And it looks like your water level will be above the overflow box. It will for sure over flood your fuge.l if you use a siphon return. I would play on the safe side and use the pump for return and chop up the pods

 

^^^precisely! The tank water level is roughly 1 inch below the top of the over box

[Benny314]

Or if you'll be doing a leak test anyway just break the siphon and see what happens.

 

 

Make sure you've got a towel or 3 down first lol.

[dandelion]

Pretty sure he'll be doing it on a driveway or patio or backyard or something? Oh bathtub would be a perfect place for that too.

 

Btw is the mini overflow box only open on the top and have a transparent bottom, or is it basically just a C siliconed to the tank?

 

 

Make sure you've got a towel or 3 down first lol.