Bahugo Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hey everybody, My fiance and me have kept heavily aquascaped and planted high tech tanks and bred beeshrimp and some cool fish on the freshwater side when they first started to get big. A few years ago I got out of it because of life reasons and burnout. I am getting the bug to get back into aquariums again now that I have settled down some and would like to do a reef tank this time. When I first got into freshwater tanks I was dumb and jumped right in and would like to avoid alot of the mistakes I made last time. I am still learning and researchin corals and everything, but I would like to get my shopping list down pretty good. I have settled on the IM 20g Fusion. This is currently my shopping list, is there anything that I am missing? Tank IM 20g Fusion $199.00Light AM Hydra 26 $299.00Heater Cobalt Neo-Therm 75w $65.00Live rock/sand $100.00Media basket Intank basket $41.00Wave Maker WP-10 $46.00Test Kit API $25.00Thermometer $15.00Refractometer $50.00Salt $30.00Filter Media/misc $100.00Stand Ikea ??? I will be buying RO/DI water from the LFS.Few questions. I see people mention the Media Baskets, how many do I need, 1 or 2? Would the Hydra 26 be sufficent to grow most everything? Link to comment
PathOfDeception Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Sand? Unless you're going without. Auto top off I would highly recommend as I have a 20 gall and wouldn't do without. The list looks great! Link to comment
Cencalfishguy56 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Sand? Unless you're going without. Auto top off I would highly recommend as I have a 20 gall and wouldn't do without. The list looks great! I agree, my pico macro tank is a PITA to top it off everyday and my last tank was also so I'll be purchasing one for the next tank lol Link to comment
Bahugo Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Sand? Unless you're going without. Auto top off I would highly recommend as I have a 20 gall and wouldn't do without. The list looks great! I just dumped the LR and Sand into one item, it was orginally an excel sheet but when I pasted the table into the forum it didn't keep the formatting. I do plan on doing 2~ inches of live sand. I have looked into ATO and am still on the fence because it is a rather high price upfront. I will probably purchase one down the road though. Link to comment
Cencalfishguy56 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I just dumped the LR and Sand into one item, it was orginally an excel sheet but when I pasted the table into the forum it didn't keep the formatting. I do plan on doing 2~ inches of live sand. I have looked into ATO and am still on the fence because it is a rather high price upfront. I will probably purchase one down the road though. Link to comment
lkoechle Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'd reccomend the hydor smart level controller and a TOM aqualifter: http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-Smart-Level-Control-Automatic/dp/B00EVD944A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436387321&sr=8-1&keywords=hydor+smart+leveland http://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Lifter-3-5gph-inches-height/dp/B001BOD9JI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436387348&sr=8-1&keywords=TOM+aqualifter for ATO. The Smart Level is nice and slim and you don't have to worry about installing multiple sensors. The hydra will be plenty of light and I don't own an IM, but I think one media basket will be fine, you can get another if you feel like you need it later on. Link to comment
Cencalfishguy56 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Get a hydor smart level it will be cheap and efficient, also $100 bucks for liverock and sand is pretty steep, are you doing liverock??? I suggest you start with dry Rock and dry sand so you don't deal with bullshit pests on your first try lol I'd reccomend the hydor smart level controller and a TOM aqualifter: http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-Smart-Level-Control-Automatic/dp/B00EVD944A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436387321&sr=8-1&keywords=hydor+smart+leveland http://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Lifter-3-5gph-inches-height/dp/B001BOD9JI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436387348&sr=8-1&keywords=TOM+aqualifterfor ATO. The Smart Level is nice and slim and you don't have to worry about installing multiple sensors. The hydra will be plenty of light and I don't own an IM, but I think one media basket will be fine, you can get another if you feel like you need it later on. Dude we posted the samething at the same time lol Link to comment
lkoechle Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Get a hydor smart level it will be cheap and efficient, also $100 bucks for liverock and sand is pretty steep, are you doing liverock??? I suggest you start with dry Rock and dry sand so you don't deal with bullshit pests on your first try lol And if you go dry, reef-cleaners cannot be beat! Link to comment
Cencalfishguy56 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 And if you go dry, reef-cleaners cannot be beat! It sure as hell can't!! I have 15 lbs waiting to be put in my new tank and it looks amazing! Link to comment
VW_TDI_02 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 The one thing that jumps out to me is the stand. Remember, this tank is going to weigh 220+ pounds and a lot of Ikea furniture is just particle board with a veneer glued to it. Not only does it have to hold the weight, you're also probably going to spill water every now and then and I think we all know that particle board and water do not mix. The test kit also worries me. The API test kit is not very accurate at all but you can still cycle a tank with it. Once you start looking at corals though, you're going to need an Alk, Ca, and Mg test kit (API versions of Alk and Ca are awful). I would look at getting the Red Sea Foundations test kit. Very easy to use once you read the instructions. If you want to save some money, you can get a far cheaper refractometer. Here is the link to the one that I bought and it's been great and comes with its own case. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EUWJCZI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00 Which salt are you using? I like to use the regular Instant Ocean brand but it does need some extra stuff. I typically add some epsom salts to raise the Mg and calcium chloride. The Alk usually comes in pretty solid so I don't mess with it. The wavemaker looks good. I went with the RW-4 which is a little more expensive but gives you better control. As others have said, an auto top off would really help. This way you can keep the salinity at the right level and it saves you the hassle of topping it off by hand every day. Link to comment
Bahugo Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'd reccomend the hydor smart level controller and a TOM aqualifter: http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-Smart-Level-Control-Automatic/dp/B00EVD944A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436387321&sr=8-1&keywords=hydor+smart+leveland http://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Lifter-3-5gph-inches-height/dp/B001BOD9JI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436387348&sr=8-1&keywords=TOM+aqualifter for ATO. The Smart Level is nice and slim and you don't have to worry about installing multiple sensors. The hydra will be plenty of light and I don't own an IM, but I think one media basket will be fine, you can get another if you feel like you need it later on. I will keep an eye on this ATO, the ones I looked at earlier were much more expensive. I like that it is simple, heh. Get a hydor smart level it will be cheap and efficient, also $100 bucks for liverock and sand is pretty steep, are you doing liverock??? I suggest you start with dry Rock and dry sand so you don't deal with bullshit pests on your first try lol Dude we posted the samething at the same time lol I figured 100$ roughly for live rock then probably another 50~ for sand. Sorry! I will look into dry rock, is it much harder to cycle? I won't rush it, but I don't want to take 5 months, heh. If I use dry rock I need to use amonia to spike it, right? (Trying to remember from an article I read earlier) And if you go dry, reef-cleaners cannot be beat! Thanks I will check them out! The one thing that jumps out to me is the stand. Remember, this tank is going to weigh 220+ pounds and a lot of Ikea furniture is just particle board with a veneer glued to it. Not only does it have to hold the weight, you're also probably going to spill water every now and then and I think we all know that particle board and water do not mix. The test kit also worries me. The API test kit is not very accurate at all but you can still cycle a tank with it. Once you start looking at corals though, you're going to need an Alk, Ca, and Mg test kit (API versions of Alk and Ca are awful). I would look at getting the Red Sea Foundations test kit. Very easy to use once you read the instructions. If you want to save some money, you can get a far cheaper refractometer. Here is the link to the one that I bought and it's been great and comes with its own case. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EUWJCZI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00 Which salt are you using? I like to use the regular Instant Ocean brand but it does need some extra stuff. I typically add some epsom salts to raise the Mg and calcium chloride. The Alk usually comes in pretty solid so I don't mess with it. Stand - I will shop around, I haven't started looking for stands yet I just want something more functional then my previous fish tank stands. There are some sturdy stands from Ikea though. If I did do Ikea I would reinforce the corners with brackets though. Test Kit - I haven't bought one yet, but they were all roughly the same price so I will shop around and open for suggestions! I'll look into the Red Sea kit. Awesome link! Honestly these aren't the final prices yet, I am just making an excel sheet so I know what to expect and that was the average of the refractometers I saw! Thanks!! I just picked Red Sea for my list for salt since it seems widely used on the forums. Thanks everybody so far!!! Link to comment
Marc.The.Shark Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 +1 on the Hydor ATO, mine's been bulletproof! Adding water to the tank daily and not forgetting is a chore, mine dumps from the resivoir about 4 times a day & keeps my salinity super stable, a must for smaller systems such as ours. Check craigslist for stands or something u can repurpose. I just bought a solid oak sideboard for my next tank for $15. Then stained it dark, which cost me about $20 plus a little elbow grease Link to comment
Bahugo Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Also I will be picking up a controller for the light, the "Director". Link to comment
VW_TDI_02 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Also I will be picking up a controller for the light, the "Director". I thought you didn't need the director and all you needed was the remote. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I thought you didn't need the director and all you needed was the remote. Director is much nicer. Controls with computer or phone Link to comment
VW_TDI_02 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Director is much nicer. Controls with computer or phone Yes but I was thinking more about price. I've seen a few people sell their directors because they used it for set up and that's it. Link to comment
lkoechle Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Yes, you can add regular scent free janitorial ammonia to kick start the cycle with dry rock. It takes about a month, you'd be looking at the same time frame if you did a mix of live and dry too. All live is just way too expensive unless you're doing a pico. Around here its about $6 to $8 a pound and what you find in stores tends to be very dense and not very pourous. The key isn't volume, its how porous it is. The more pours, the more bacteria can colonize. Reef cleaners is amazing for this. I second the Red Sea test kits. I love mine. I use Seachem for the basics (nitrites, ammonia nitrates) for everything else, I use red sea. If AquaMedic salt is available in your area (they're just now retailing in the US, so it can be ahrd to find if you're not in the right area), thats what I use and have no complaints. It dissolves fast and doesn't leave a residue. Down the road, I'd look into getting an RO/DI unit. makes things much easier than buying from the LFS. I have a spectrapure unit and nothing bad to say about it. Link to comment
seafd Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I would strongly suggest adding 2 part dosing pumps and a good 2 part Calcium and Alkalinity additive. No one stressed the importance of maintaining these two parameters to me when I first got in the hobby and I skimped in this area because it was “expensive”. 2 part doing pumps are actually cheap (at least compared to other things in this hobby) and will save you from tons of potential problems. Calcium and Alkalinity are easily some of the most important tank parameters to maintain, even more so than lighting or flow IME. That being said, large or frequent water changes with a good salt mix in a 20 gallon tank will maintain them too. It’s just a lot more work than doing smaller less frequent water changes to maintain water quality (i.e., remove poisons) and using 2 part dosing pumps to maintain Calcium and Alkalinity. Obviously you can manually dose 2 part if you want, but the dosing pumps are a nice addition. Link to comment
VW_TDI_02 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I would strongly suggest adding 2 part dosing pumps and a good 2 part Calcium and Alkalinity additive. No one stressed the importance of maintaining these two parameters to me when I first got in the hobby and I skimped in this area because it was “expensive”. 2 part doing pumps are actually cheap (at least compared to other things in this hobby) and will save you from tons of potential problems. Calcium and Alkalinity are easily some of the most important tank parameters to maintain, even more so than lighting or flow IME. That being said, large or frequent water changes with a good salt mix in a 20 gallon tank will maintain them too. It’s just a lot more work than doing smaller less frequent water changes to maintain water quality (i.e., remove poisons) and using 2 part dosing pumps to maintain Calcium and Alkalinity. Obviously you can manually dose 2 part if you want, but the dosing pumps are a nice addition. Unless you are heavily stocked with corals, there really isn't a need for 2 part dosing in such a small tank. Water changes will do just fine. [Edit] And dosing pumps are rather expensive. I've seen BRS ones used for $50 each but that's the cheapest I've seen. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Unless you are heavily stocked with corals, there really isn't a need for 2 part dosing in such a small tank. Water changes will do just fine. [Edit] And dosing pumps are rather expensive. I've seen BRS ones used for $50 each but that's the cheapest I've seen. Jebao doser is $70 for 4 heads and the controller- thats what I have and its pretty good. Link to comment
VW_TDI_02 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Jebao doser is $70 for 4 heads and the controller- thats what I have and its pretty good. Have you had any issues with losing the siphon with that? I thought about buying the DP-2 which is the same but with just two pumps but it was right around when someone had an issue with jebao dosers. [Edit] But honestly, I don't see them as being anywhere near a necessity. Especially for a tank that's just starting out and doesn't even have any corals yet. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Have you had any issues with losing the siphon with that? I thought about buying the DP-2 which is the same but with just two pumps but it was right around when someone had an issue with jebao dosers. [Edit] But honestly, I don't see them as being anywhere near a necessity. Especially for a tank that's just starting out and doesn't even have any corals yet. Yeah actually I thought I was crazy but I keep finding air bubbles in the tubing going to the tank. I need to put on a anti-siphon valve ASAP Link to comment
Bahugo Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yes but I was thinking more about price. I've seen a few people sell their directors because they used it for set up and that's it. The price difference is only 20~ and I would much rather be able to use my phone in the long run, but I do understand your concern. Yes, you can add regular scent free janitorial ammonia to kick start the cycle with dry rock. It takes about a month, you'd be looking at the same time frame if you did a mix of live and dry too. All live is just way too expensive unless you're doing a pico. Around here its about $6 to $8 a pound and what you find in stores tends to be very dense and not very pourous. The key isn't volume, its how porous it is. The more pours, the more bacteria can colonize. Reef cleaners is amazing for this. I second the Red Sea test kits. I love mine. I use Seachem for the basics (nitrites, ammonia nitrates) for everything else, I use red sea. If AquaMedic salt is available in your area (they're just now retailing in the US, so it can be ahrd to find if you're not in the right area), thats what I use and have no complaints. It dissolves fast and doesn't leave a residue. Down the road, I'd look into getting an RO/DI unit. makes things much easier than buying from the LFS. I have a spectrapure unit and nothing bad to say about it. Awesome, I will have to look at cycling dry rock. Thanks! I'm open to trying a new test kit and will probably try out the Red Sea kit. I used API for my freshwater stuff and can understand people's issues with it. As for the RO/DI Unit I will most likely wait, we plan on buying a new house in about 2 years. On the dosing topic, I used to daily dose ferts on my high tech tanks so I'm not to concerned about dosing down the road if it is required. Link to comment
Mirya Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 You've gotten lots of good advice so far! As another consideration for ATO look at the AutoAqua Smart ATO. It has an eye sensor rather than a float switch. It also has a really small footprint; I use one in my Nuvo8. It is also quiet and I've never had it overfill. I do need to periodically clean the eye though or it will underfill, but at least it alarms if that is happening. Someone recently posted a thread about their eye unit corroding, but I've been using one for 1.5 yr without issue. For dry rock Reef Cleaners is the best hands down. Light, porous, and lots of nice holes in it for jamming in frag plugs. There is a 15lb for $38 which includes shipping. That is more than enough rock than you need, but will give you plenty of "playing with the puzzle pieces" to design your perfect scape. For live rock, I'm partial to Florida aquacultured rock. KP Aquatics has a nano package that is 10lb for $55 which includes shipping. Gulf Live Rock has packages of all sizes, such as a 10lb for $60 and 17lb for $80 which includes shipping. Link to comment
Bahugo Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 You've gotten lots of good advice so far! As another consideration for ATO look at the AutoAqua Smart ATO. It has an eye sensor rather than a float switch. It also has a really small footprint; I use one in my Nuvo8. It is also quiet and I've never had it overfill. I do need to periodically clean the eye though or it will underfill, but at least it alarms if that is happening. Someone recently posted a thread about their eye unit corroding, but I've been using one for 1.5 yr without issue. For dry rock Reef Cleaners is the best hands down. Light, porous, and lots of nice holes in it for jamming in frag plugs. There is a 15lb for $38 which includes shipping. That is more than enough rock than you need, but will give you plenty of "playing with the puzzle pieces" to design your perfect scape. For live rock, I'm partial to Florida aquacultured rock. KP Aquatics has a nano package that is 10lb for $55 which includes shipping. Gulf Live Rock has packages of all sizes, such as a 10lb for $60 and 17lb for $80 which includes shipping. I think the Auto Aqua Smart is one of the ones I looked at and is roughly double the one listed earlier. I was planning on getting the Hydor and putting the sensor in the back, that would work right? (it doesn't have to be in the front? Sorry noob question heh..) As for dry rock, I looked at Reef Cleaners and was planning on getting their 30lb package, I thought that the rule was ~1~1.5lb a gallon? Either way from past experience with FW scaping I would rather have more than less to scape with, I hated running out of rocks/wood and often really hindered some of my scapes. Another rock question, what is the best way to form structures? I have seen people drill and use poles, and I have seen people putty them together, and some people just stack.. Link to comment
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