werkkrew Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Thanks everyone so much for the replies, it has really helped ease my mind except on two fronts - the whole "incorrect ballast" thing, and the lack of bluefish control for the T5's. I don't really know what you (jedimasterben) mean by "unless you wire in a 3.3v 3mA relay", but I am pretty comfortable with electronics and soldering so that would be really great to know how to do in more detail. If you could do a write-up after you do it I would love that. As for the ballast thing, aside from shortening bulb life, is there any other reason to be concerned? I'd be half tempted to change the ballasts myself if it meant better output and better bulb life. Dave - whenever you figure out the new T5 ballast you will be using that fits in your enclosure will there be any options for those of us on the older ballast to "upgrade"? Link to comment
RJWalters Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 As for the ballast thing, aside from shortening bulb life, is there any other reason to be concerned? I'd be half tempted to change the ballasts myself if it meant better output and better bulb life. Dave - whenever you figure out the new T5 ballast you will be using that fits in your enclosure will there be any options for those of us on the older ballast to "upgrade"? I would also like to know this. Do you have anything currently in the works to get the "correct" ballast? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't really know what you (jedimasterben) mean by "unless you wire in a 3.3v 3mA relay", but I am pretty comfortable with electronics and soldering so that would be really great to know how to do in more detail. If you could do a write-up after you do it I would love that. As for the ballast thing, aside from shortening bulb life, is there any other reason to be concerned? I'd be half tempted to change the ballasts myself if it meant better output and better bulb life. Well, these particular ballasts do not have end of life protection, which means that if the lamp was at the end of its useful life (not to be confused with its useful phosphor life, which is around 3-4,000 hours on a good ballast), if the lamp fails to start, the ballast will still try and send it power instead of sensing the failure and shutting down, which can cause the lamp to crack or explode. We change lamps far sooner than their true 'end of life' (which is upwards of 20,000 hours) because of significant phosphor shift, so the chances of that happening are incredibly slim, so that part is really nothing to worry about. As for the relay, all that you need to do is hook up a Powerswitch Tail relay kit from Sparkfun inline with the power into the T5 and hook up the control input line from the Bluefish Mini and voila. It takes some... custom control options for the Mini to be set just right, so that will all come in a separate post in the general lighting forum. Link to comment
Paleoreef103 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Well, these particular ballasts do not have end of life protection, which means that if the lamp was at the end of its useful life (not to be confused with its useful phosphor life, which is around 3-4,000 hours on a good ballast), if the lamp fails to start, the ballast will still try and send it power instead of sensing the failure and shutting down, which can cause the lamp to crack or explode. We change lamps far sooner than their true 'end of life' because of significant phosphor shift, so the chances of that happening are incredibly slim, so that part is really nothing to worry about. As for the relay, all that you need to do is hook up a Powerswitch Tail relay kit from Sparkfun inline with the power into the T5 and hook up the control input line from the Bluefish Mini and voila. It takes some... custom control options for the Mini to be set just right, so that will all come in a separate post in the general lighting forum. I'd like to add that ATI is the only ones I know who are confirmed for programmed start ballasts. It is possible that AquaticLife uses them as well, but I can't really find much evidence of that. Link to comment
gus6464 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I'd like to add that ATI is the only ones I know who are confirmed for programmed start ballasts. It is possible that AquaticLife uses them as well, but I can't really find much evidence of that. Aquaticlife is fulham workhorse. The only T5 fixtures I know of that use programmed start are ATI, Giesemann, and Pacific Sun. The current deal on Pac Sun Diuna fixtures is really good. 8x39W software controlled for $550. Also Fulham Workhorse are less efficient overall because of their .87 ballast factor. So same bulb powered by one will be 11% less bright than an ATI unit. Link to comment
Paleoreef103 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Aquaticlife is fulham workhorse. The only T5 fixtures I know of that use programmed start are ATI, Giesemann, and Pacific Sun. Good to know. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Aquaticlife is fulham workhorse. The only T5 fixtures I know of that use programmed start are ATI, Giesemann, and Pacific Sun. Giesemann and Pacific Sun both use Philips Advance ballasts, ATI is the only one I know of using HEP, but they're really about the same good quality between the two Link to comment
gus6464 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Giesemann and Pacific Sun both use Philips Advance ballasts, ATI is the only one I know of using HEP, but they're really about the same good quality between the two Phillips Advance are 2% more efficient than HEP Link to comment
gus6464 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 As far as reflectors go the only true cream of the crop in badassdom are ones with silver coating. They are 99% reflective and found in the old ATI powermodule and new one. The sunpower uses 94% reflective which is still pretty damn good. A good T5 unit is differentiated by the ballast and reflector. This is what makes ATI very good as they use top notch reflectors and ballasts. Link to comment
werkkrew Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Pacific Sun was definitely on my radar but their Hybrid units (Pandora Hyperion?) are extremely expensive and you have to order them from Europe to the best of my knowledge. Being the type of guy who likes to support small businesses and USA based businesses when I can so I chose the NBR unit over many others (Radion, AI, Kessil, Pac Sun, Reefbreeders, and even the lauded GHL Mitras) based on the whole small/local "little guy" factor combined with how much everyone who has one seems to love them. Having been out of the "game" for about 5 years, I had to start from scratch when it came to learning about all of the different light options available and to say it was overwhelming would be an understatement. With the 4x4 NBR Hybrid over my ~36x21x24 tank I would imagine the LED's alone would be adequate to grow SPS pretty much anywhere in the tank so I am not overly concerned about the T5 output. I am easily affected by buyers remorse so I really hope I made the right decision in the end. My plan when doing this build was to "spare no expense and do it right the first time", and every item I have put into the build so far is considered best of breed. It is only a minor annoyance to me that I will have to use a separate timer for the T5's but the ballast is a more significant concern, combined with the lack of dedicated reflectors it seems like the T5's in a NBR hybrid would have significantly less output than the same bulb on an ATI. But will that reduced output really matter to me? Probably not. The main reason I even got a hybrid light as opposed to dedicated LED was just to reduce some of the shadowing issues I see people talk about. In my research for this new build I found there are the hardcore T5 lovers, the hardcore LED lovers and they will both find all the negatives about the other, but I never found anyone with a bad thing to say about a hybrid T5/LED setup so that's what I went with. Link to comment
gus6464 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 There are basically 2 types of hybrid lights. T5 with LED supplement - ATI LED Powermodule LED with T5 supplement - Pacific Sun Pandora S, Nanobox Hybrid Both will grow the crap out of corals but the second option will be lighter on the wallet. The beauty of an LED with T5 supplement light is that you do not have to worry about T5 grow bulbs as the LEDs will take care of that so you can concentrate on bulbs that will give color. Also allows you to only run T5 for 5-6 hours a day which means you can swap out bulbs every 18 months with a proper ballast. Link to comment
werkkrew Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 There are basically 2 types of hybrid lights. T5 with LED supplement - ATI LED Powermodule LED with T5 supplement - Pacific Sun Pandora S, Nanobox Hybrid Both will grow the crap out of corals but the second option will be lighter on the wallet. The beauty of an LED with T5 supplement light is that you do not have to worry about T5 grow bulbs as the LEDs will take care of that so you can concentrate on bulbs that will give color. Also allows you to only run T5 for 5-6 hours a day which means you can swap out bulbs every 18 months with a proper ballast. Yeah, I was only looking at LED with T5 supplement when I was doing my research once I had ruled out pure LED as what I wanted to go with. Is there a good way to calculate the usable life in hours of T5 bulbs on the nanobox hybrid with the existing ballasts? Link to comment
gus6464 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yeah, I was only looking at LED with T5 supplement when I was doing my research once I had ruled out pure LED as what I wanted to go with. Is there a good way to calculate the usable life in hours of T5 bulbs on the nanobox hybrid with the existing ballasts? Hard to say, maybe 8-12 months at 5-6 hours a day? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hard to say, maybe 8-12 months at 5-6 hours a day? ~6 months usable phosphor life IMHO. They are still being started the same amount of times, and that is the root of the problem. Longer than that and you'll start seeing the 'red shift'. Link to comment
DaveFason Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Thanks for all the feedback guys. I have a few ballasts that are small in my sights. However do not think that the current ballast is bad. Ive used them for years without a hitch. But will keep people in the loop. Now grow corals! Hope this helps! -Dave Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 However do not think that the current ballast is bad. Ive used them for years without a hitch. But will keep people in the loop. The issue is not that the ballasts are bad, they're just bad for T5 lamps lol. Corals couldn't care less about it, as they don't care what the light looks like, but we do, and with rapid and instant start the phosphors degradation is faster than on a programmed start ballast. We buy all these fancy corals to have them look their best but they usually start to lose it when the lamps start to shift. Link to comment
Bambi13 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 I just picked up a used hybrid, could someone explain how to hook up the light. I don't want to fry the fans. Thanks Link to comment
DaveFason Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I just picked up a used hybrid, could someone explain how to hook up the light. I don't want to fry the fans. Thanks You will have... 48v Power - LED Power 9v Power - Fans 5v USB Power - Bluefish AC Cord - T5 The fans will plug into the plug with a F by it. The LED power will plug into the other slot. The 5v power connects to the Bluefish USB connection. I can update this Hybrid if you ever wanted to go that route. It would simplify the plug into 48v power for Bluefish,fans and LEDs. AC cord for T5s. Much easier! Hope this helps! Shoot me an email if you need anything else. -Dave Link to comment
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