Moonlight?

[kimberbee]

Anyone have/don't have the dedicated moonlight?

 

Worth it? Not worth it?

 

Any pics to back up your opinion?

[jedimasterben]

Moonlight is solely for our enjoyment. You'll find a lot of anecdotal evidence otherwise, but even in nature moonlight doesnt really penetrate the water with any intensity.

 

I wish I had one more channel on my Bluefish to be able to have a dedicated red 'moonlight' since a lot of inverts can't see red light very well (though fish and corals can, so still need to keep the intensity low).

 

My two cents on it

[buckeyereefer]

like my moonlight on living room tank just for a night light on my way to fridge for another beer !!

[Pilg0re]

I like mine, I got mine is red so I could walk around at night without having my night vision messed up. My corals don't seem to mind at all either.

[tibbsy07]

Moonlights are just for show. As Ben said, moonlight doesn't really penetrate the water at all, so there is no photosynthesis. It's actually important for the coral and all photosynthetic organisms to be in the dark for a while, though again, the moonlight doesn't really contribute anything. If you want to spend the money, do it, otherwise just save the cash.

[Benny314]

Why is this always such a loaded subject?!

 

So far everyone is correct, moon light isn't important for growth, corals like all plants need darkness to function correctly and people using bright blue lighting as 'moon light' messes coral up as they don't go into night mode.

 

However in nature animals are responsive to the luna cycle/luna calendar and reproductive cycles for instance are timed with them.

So there is a strong argument for adding a 29.75 ish day cycle of ramping up and down blue light that isn't to intense to further simulate nature, as that's what we are all striving to do in our tanks.

This ties in with having your tank lighting ramp up and down to simulate dawn, mid day and dusk as opposed to just turning on and off.

 

My corals clearly respond well to dusk for instance as they start going into feeding mode as they know the night is coming. I also get to watch evening routines of my fish as they start thinking about returning to their prefured resting spots (just got a cleaner wrasse and he does a funny dance thing before going into a rock to sleep at about 21:30 every night).

 

So it's personal choice, remember not to use supper bright lighting as it will mess things up and enjoy your tank.

[kimberbee]

Thank you all for the input.

 

Seems that it's not NECESSARY (obviously, my tank now doesn't have one), and it may or may not benefit the critters to have a more natural lunar cycle. It's not crazy expensive, but I could save the cash for a coral or two.

 

Seems it's really up to personal preference!

[tibbsy07]

Lunar rhythms in animals with sexual reproduction are primarily externally influenced. The moon doesn't actually do anything for them other than reflect more or less sunlight, altering the nighttime visibility, so certain animals alter their behavior based on this. In addition, reproduction cycles "timed" to the lunar cycle actually have no connection save coincidence. There is no actual scientific evidence that there is any actual biological effect of the lunar cycle on animals.

 

Circadian rhythm is incredibly important for organisms, however it is not based on moonlight. It's based on day/night. Corals are especially unaffected by moonlight as the moon's light does not really penetrate the ocean. The only piece of the lunar cycle that affects corals is the tidal cycle.

[kimberbee]

Lunar rhythms in animals with sexual reproduction are primarily externally influenced. The moon doesn't actually do anything for them other than reflect more or less sunlight, altering the nighttime visibility, so certain animals alter their behavior based on this. In addition, reproduction cycles "timed" to the lunar cycle actually have no connection save coincidence. There is no actual scientific evidence that there is any actual biological effect of the lunar cycle on animals.

 

Circadian rhythm is incredibly important for organisms, however it is not based on moonlight. It's based on day/night. Corals are especially unaffected by moonlight as the moon's light does not really penetrate the ocean. The only piece of the lunar cycle that affects corals is the tidal cycle.

 

I only had to read this 3 times to fully understand... But seriously, thanks for that! Makes a lot of sense!

[Blueshorts]

 

Lunar rhythms in animals with sexual reproduction are primarily externally influenced. The moon doesn't actually do anything for them other than reflect more or less sunlight, altering the nighttime visibility, so certain animals alter their behavior based on this. In addition, reproduction cycles "timed" to the lunar cycle actually have no connection save coincidence. There is no actual scientific evidence that there is any actual biological effect of the lunar cycle on animals.

Circadian rhythm is incredibly important for organisms, however it is not based on moonlight. It's based on day/night. Corals are especially unaffected by moonlight as the moon's light does not really penetrate the ocean. The only piece of the lunar cycle that affects corals is the tidal cycle.

 

 

If there are some citations from a scientific review article someone could post then this statement would be backed up really well.

[tibbsy07]

 

 

If there are some citations from a scientific review article someone could post then this statement would be backed up really well.

http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-Bio17Tuat03-t1-body-d5.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7200945

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18786384

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16407788

 

Basically the lunar cycles follow a pattern and certain animal behaviors follow that same pattern, but the data suggest that it has less to do with the actual phase of the moon exerting some sort of effect and more that the animals respond differently to different physical environmental cues.

 

 

Edit: Interesting! I may have been incorrect - it seems there IS some evidence that coral spawning is affected by the moonlight, though the light simply may be an external signal that the coral recognize! Very neat http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25467066

[kimberbee]

 

Now I'm so confused...

[Blueshorts]

 

http://nzetc.victori...t1-body-d5.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7200945

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18786384

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16407788

 

Thanks Tibbsy.

 

So from the first article you posted (http://nzetc.victori...t1-body-d5.html) this was at the end:

 

"At the basis of lunar cycles, as in all cycles in nature, there is the fundamental advantage of responding to stimuli which correlate with recurring environmental conditions. Thus the animals respond to these stimuli with a background of ‘species experience’ that such stimuli are associated with near optimal conditions for the imminent activity; or the activity may increase survival. In simple terms, lunar periodicity in breeding tends to produce concentrated breeding activity in stable breeding conditions year after year."

 

So it seems like the responses there are to lunar cycle are based on synchronization of broadcast spawning and that in many cases low tide may be more important than light (but in some cases light can have a positive effect on synchronization as well). It seems to me that the biological significance of lunar cycle is more important for spawning and less important for everyday survival.

[tibbsy07]

 

Thanks Tibbsy.

 

So from the first article you posted (http://nzetc.victori...t1-body-d5.html) this was at the end:

 

"At the basis of lunar cycles, as in all cycles in nature, there is the fundamental advantage of responding to stimuli which correlate with recurring environmental conditions. Thus the animals respond to these stimuli with a background of ‘species experience’ that such stimuli are associated with near optimal conditions for the imminent activity; or the activity may increase survival. In simple terms, lunar periodicity in breeding tends to produce concentrated breeding activity in stable breeding conditions year after year."

 

So it seems like the responses there are to lunar cycle are based on synchronization of broadcast spawning and that in many cases low tide may be more important than light (but in some cases light can have a positive effect on synchronization as well). It seems to me that the biological significance of lunar cycle is more important for spawning and less important for everyday survival.

The newer article in the edited post is a better article - more information that is more recent. The light again may simply be correlated to other things that are actually causing the spawning. I think the general information is the same - the lunar phase correlates with other things that happen to be perfect conditions, so it seems that the lunar cycle is actually having an effect when it reality it is simply the moon reflecting the sunlight at different parts of its orbit around earth/sun. As for every day survival, look at areas where the sun and moon are out for much longer periods. Those organisms thrive just fine and many are related to animals in other parts of the world with more/less sun/moon.

 

 

Now I'm so confused...

You don't need one There is a lot of conflicting evidence and a LOT of gaps in the evidence. There isn't enough data yet to say that moonlight/lunar cycles actually have any effect other than coincidental or as a signal to animals that certain external factors have changed. That being said, it may be found eventually that the lunar phase DOES actually do something other than signal, but until then, I'm sticking with no. Even if it helps with spawning for certain corals in certain reefs, I don't think it would help in our tanks, especially because the moonlight would actually need to be on a lunar cycle and even if it helped coral spawn, you'd have to somehow keep the spawn from entering the filtration/etc.

[kimberbee]

When I'm not at work, I'll read over the scientific mumbo jumbo.

 

I'll look into it a little bit more, and may just end up with one for the "cool" factor!!

[Blueshorts]

 

 

The newer article in the edited post is a better article

 

Gotcha, thanks.

 

 

 

I'll look into it a little bit more, and may just end up with one for the "cool" factor!!

 

In the end it probably won't hurt anything, but don't expect any amazing nature-like results from one. I've got one and it looks kind of cool

[buckeyereefer]

myself.......I would like to try a red LED for a "moonlight".

[tibbsy07]

myself.......I would like to try a red LED for a "moonlight".

Algae and cyanobacteria use red light to grow. This would be bad.

[jedimasterben]

Algae and cyanobacteria use red light to grow. This would be bad.

... every photosynthetic animal that uses chlorophyll also use red light. T5HO and metal halide also give off red light (and in higher radiometric quantities than a single red LED) and nutrients are still the limiting factor.

[Benny314]

Again as all ready stated, coral sense light. So while real moon light may not penetrate, as mentioned it does create visible ambient light that changes in intensity during the lunar cycle so obviously light sensing organisms are going to be aware of this and as the moon affects tides etc which are the physical surroundings of the coral, so its unlikely they wouldn't use the light intensity as a que for their behaviour.

 

But anyway.

 

Like I said and has been mentioned on other similar threads about moon lighting. Make sure your blue or what ever colour lighting isn't to bright as it will confuse the coral and make them think its still daytime and mess up their Circadian rhythm.

[kimberbee]

Again as all ready stated, coral sense light. So while real moon light may not penetrate, as mentioned it does create visible ambient light that changes in intensity during the lunar cycle so obviously light sensing organisms are going to be aware of this and as the moon affects tides etc which are the physical surroundings of the coral, so its unlikely they wouldn't use the light intensity as a que for their behaviour.

 

But anyway.

 

Like I said and has been mentioned on other similar threads about moon lighting. Make sure your blue or what ever colour lighting isn't to bright as it will confuse the coral and make them think its still daytime and mess up their Circadian rhythm.

 

So corals need their sleepy time. Got it!

[tibbsy07]

... every photosynthetic animal that uses chlorophyll also use red light. T5HO and metal halide also give off red light (and in higher radiometric quantities than a single red LED) and nutrients are still the limiting factor.

Sort of, yes. Cyano and algae really do well with red light especially the Synecoccus strains in our tanks. They don't use typical chlorophyll systems, rather chlorophyll a and a series of other pigments. And while nutrient levels are important, Synecoccus is primarily an autotroph so light is more important.

[RJWalters]

WOW that conversation got very technical very fast. Thanks for sharing all the info though.

[buckeyereefer]

Algae and cyanobacteria use red light to grow. This would be bad.

Good point. but I kinda meant being able to turn on when I wanted to watch tank. not an all night thing. sorry.....didn't word it that way.