HecticDialectics Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Meh. If the mega corps importers with millions of dollars in the industry don't care, why should I? Maybe they actually are rare and need protection. The lack of support makes me think we're being played by the industry. They're the ones to lose. I've donated thousands of dollars to them buying reef fish and supplies Link to comment
Mustang Boy Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I've met a few wholesalers and importers who are worried about what this will lead to. A few weeks ago I got to have a few conversations with Tony Vargas(Tony's Vault/Hydra Aquatics) and Eric Cohen(Sea Dwelling Creatures) and they are both worried what this can do to our hobby if these corals are listed as endangered under the current guidelines of the Endangered Species Act. The importers do care about this and just because you don't see them posting on forums doesn't mean they don't care. They have different ways of fighting the current regulations(I know this is bad wording but couldn't think of better wording). Link to comment
OCREEFLOVER Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 How would this effect soft coral and coral not listed? Link to comment
Mustang Boy Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 It would not affect soft corals or corals not listed, unless they look similar to those that are listed as similar looking corals could potentially get the same restrictions as the corals listed, for now until more corals and fish are added to the act. Link to comment
farkwar Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 It concerns me that you think his actions were OK. How can you not think plundering and importing 40 tons of coral against multiple laws is wrong? Makes me think twice about your real intentions here. You're just being argumentative to argue, I see that as your intention. You write that you're thinking twice, I don't see evidence you did any thinking the first time, either. Link to comment
OCREEFLOVER Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 It would not affect soft corals or corals not listed, unless they look similar to those that are listed as similar looking corals could potentially get the same restrictions as the corals listed, for now until more corals and fish are added to the act. Ok, that's good to know. I really hope we can overcome this issue and continue this great hobby. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 You're just being argumentative to argue, I see that as your intention. You write that you're thinking twice, I don't see evidence you did any thinking the first time, either. You should probably read things before you respond to me in the future with that tone when you're wrong. " As of this writing the industry has only given 12 comments. Read more: http://reefbuilders.com/2015/01/23/saltwater-aquatics-industry-major-jeopardy/#ixzz3PlleLShI " 12 COMMENTS! If the people that stand to lose millions dont care, just makes me think twice. Link to comment
evanski Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 You're just being argumentative to argue, I see that as your intention.You write that you're thinking twice, I don't see evidence you did any thinking the first time, either. Troll up from Lounge, would argue that water is not wet if you said otherwise. Never in doubt, often wrong. Ignore it like a minor itch...it will go away. Link to comment
OCREEFLOVER Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 If this bill does go through I think the planted tank industry will see a huge boom. Maybe ADA is behind this? Lol Link to comment
farkwar Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Now you're telling me what to do? Does that open up me telling you what you need to do? If so, then GFY. Try the auto asphyxiation method while you're at it. You have done nothing less than take an interesting and very important topic of discussion and turn it into a waste of time for anyone wanting to contribute something of worth or value(besides seabass notably). He is far more patient than I, for you are going on ignore list as of now. Link to comment
evanski Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Just to be clear Fark...I was talking about him not you. I assume your last comment was in the same vein. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Pretty short temper and nothing of substance in your response. Let's stay on topic instead of flinging personal insults fark. Why do you think the importers and industry aren't taking this as a threat to their livelihood? Link to comment
farkwar Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Just to be clear Fark...I was talking about him not you. I assume your last comment was in the same vein. I understood you evanski. I should have taken your advice and just shut the F up. I just wanted to clear the air before dismissing him to dev null. It was a good and interesting topic, being borked by a troll; which I believe discouraged other posters from posting their good ideas. I'm a pretty big asshole myself(my avatar says 'eat me', so that fact is well known), so I can smell other assholes a mile off. I used to enjoy Lounge type "discourse"(with far better opponents than this boy), I'm too old now to waste that time or effort usually, now I just cut to the obvious end conclusion, without my past finesse. Hopefully other readers derive benefit, if not they should put me on ignore. I leave those that are doing good, or post good ideas, alone. Noobs are usually off limits for me too, unless they are obvious trolls.. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Still no response. How is it trolling, exactly, to point out that even industry doesn't seem to care? Link to comment
Mustang Boy Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Still no response. How is it trolling, exactly, to point out that even industry doesn't seem to care? And I pointed out that they do but you failed to read that. Heck even in the Hydra Aquatics website they have a link to pages trying to help fight the current legislation that will outlaw our owning of these corals if they are put on the endangered species list. Many notable LFS and online retailers are doing everything they can to spread the word about what is happening, notable figures in the industry like Julian Sprung are spreading the word and working with PIJAC to figure something out that will help the hobby. If you actually went and looked around the industry is worried. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 You should probably read things before you respond to me in the future with that tone when you're wrong. " As of this writing the industry has only given 12 comments. Read more: http://reefbuilders.com/2015/01/23/saltwater-aquatics-industry-major-jeopardy/#ixzz3PlleLShI " 12 COMMENTS! If the people that stand to lose millions dont care, just makes me think twice. Guess this applies to you too Mustang. Do you people. Not read? 12. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Just for some perspective, I've seen local waste treatment plants in small towns get hundreds of comments Link to comment
seabass Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 If comments are synonymous with caring, then you're right. However, not leaving a comment and caring aren't mutually exclusive. Plus, the comment period is still open. I'm not sure if it will make a difference or not, but I think it's worth an effort. Edit: However, they are looking for data that either backs up of refutes the need to protect these species, not just that you are for or against these listings. They may take into account how this may financially impact you. Also, they might be open to alternative methods for protecting these species. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 What they need to do is flood everyone with actual facts on population densities. I'm seeing a lot of complaining and name calling from people against it, but facts would be a lot more powerful. You're going to have to prove there's no rational basis to win in court. Not easy. Link to comment
markalot Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Pretty short temper and nothing of substance in your response. Let's stay on topic instead of flinging personal insults fark. Why do you think the importers and industry aren't taking this as a threat to their livelihood? Shut the #### up would ya? I've read the entire thread and most of your posts are nothing but insults .. and now you're going to pretend to discuss it? Link to comment
markalot Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I figure at some point regulation will happen and the hobby will be significantly impacted. I'll enjoy it while I can. It seems to me the next step is an actual ruling that will significantly impact the hobby at which point people might wake up and realize they are about to go out of business unless they do something. Link to comment
seabass Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 What they need to do is flood everyone with actual facts on population densities. I'm seeing a lot of complaining and name calling from people against it, but facts would be a lot more powerful. You're going to have to prove there's no rational basis to win in court. Not easy.John "Charlie" Veron has already contributed to correcting the data. This, along with efforts from PIJAC, have resulted in reducing the 82 coral species (12 petitioned to be listed as endangered) down to 20 species (none of which were listed as endangered). However, as many have feared, they now wish to protect these species as endangered. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Shut the #### up would ya? I've read the entire thread and most of your posts are nothing but insults .. and now you're going to pretend to discuss it? Way to be civil. Anything to add to the discussion? I don't believe I've told anyone to "shut the #### up". Sorry for knowing about the ESA and providing a realistic view Link to comment
markalot Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Way to be civil. Anything to add to the discussion? I don't believe I've told anyone to "shut the #### up". Sorry for knowing about the ESA and providing a realistic view I am certainly not civil and not pretending to be civil with you. Seabass is a respected member posting about a topic that concerns him and you've polluted this thread with your faux expertise and insults for days now. This is a discussion, not a debate. I suggest you take your 45,000+ quality posts and go back to the lounge with them. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I am certainly not civil and not pretending to be civil with you. Seabass is a respected member posting about a topic that concerns him and you've polluted this thread with your faux expertise and insults for days now. This is a discussion, not a debate. I suggest you take your 45,000+ quality posts and go back to the lounge with them. Go ahead and feel free to dispute anything I've said in particular. Doesn't look like you can. Just being extremely rude and uncalled for violent behavior. For half of the thread seabass didn't even correctly state the issue 4d is a lot different than a threatened species on its own and the Bs "similar appearance" argument. Someone else had to point out the 4d issue. If you knew anything at all about the ESA you'd also get it. You obviously don't care tho. Too busy playing Internet tough guy. Link to comment
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