CCXGT Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 So I'm on Day 15 of my 10G cycle. I kick started it by adding bottled bacteria and dosing 3ppm Ammonia daily and kept the tank at 85°. The Ammonia bottomed out by the 2nd day. Once the Nitrites went sky high (Day 6/7) I backed down the dosage to 2ppm daily. I've just spotted the first Diatoms developing so I tested the water and I've got: 0.25 Ammonia 1 Nitrite 160 Nitrate So I was thinking, could it be a good idea to lower dosage further? Or just keep going as normal? Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Bring your temperature down. The bacteria that are responsible for the cycle don't like it that high - Keep it 78-80. Also, STOP dosing ammonia. It's cycling. Don't prolong it. Link to comment
CCXGT Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Bring your temperature down. The bacteria that are responsible for the cycle don't like it that high - Keep it 78-80. Also, STOP dosing ammonia. It's cycling. Don't prolong it. The bacteria actually thrive in much higher temperatures than 78-80. I was aiming for around 90 but couldn't get there. I will stop dosing Ammonia, I was under the impression that providing the bacteria with food would speed their growth rate up. Link to comment
markalot Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 If this is the typical fishless, or in case of a reef, lifeless cycle then I think maintaining 2ppm should be ok as that follows the freshwater recommendations. Only once you are ready to add life should you stop ammonia, clear out both ammonia and nitrites, water change to get nitrates down below 5 and then add "life". Whenever I see someone mention .25 ammonia I think API, which has a tendency to always show .25. Bacteria needs food so the population will be directly related to the amount of food available (ammonia, nitrite, etc). If you stop dosing and add one fish after a few days you will only have enough bacteria to support 1 fish. Link to comment
CCXGT Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 If this is the typical fishless, or in case of a reef, lifeless cycle then I think maintaining 2ppm should be ok as that follows the freshwater recommendations. Only once you are ready to add life should you stop ammonia, clear out both ammonia and nitrites, water change to get nitrates down below 5 and then add "life". Whenever I see someone mention .25 ammonia I think API, which has a tendency to always show .25. Bacteria needs food so the population will be directly related to the amount of food available (ammonia, nitrite, etc). If you stop dosing and add one fish after a few days you will only have enough bacteria to support 1 fish. I don't spose there's some magic formula which will give me an estimate for the bioload of a single Perc Clown..? Link to comment
markalot Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I don't spose there's some magic formula which will give me an estimate for the bioload of a single Perc Clown..? Not that I know of. I would think 2ppm would me more than enough though. Link to comment
CCXGT Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Not that I know of. I would think 2ppm would me more than enough though. When the Nitrates vanish, should I bother doing the massive water change? Or just keep adding Ammonia until I'm ready to get any livestock? I imagine the tank will be at it's 'purest' just after the water change. Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 The bacteria actually thrive in much higher temperatures than 78-80. I was aiming for around 90 but couldn't get there. I will stop dosing Ammonia, I was under the impression that providing the bacteria with food would speed their growth rate up. Only the Nitrobacter species thrive in warmer water (38C/100F). Nitrosomonas species and Nitrococcus species thrive in water that is 20-30C or ~68-86 degrees F. 85 isn't too warm for them in that they are going to die, but I would still drop the temperature down a bit and let things settle. As far as the growth rate, the bacteria have a finite growth rate (they can't undergo more than X amount of divisions in a certain amount of time no matter what you give them). They also can only metabolize and utilize a finite amount of ammonia/etc. at any given time. I think in this case you actually have a LOT of Nitrosomonas and Nitrococcus species, which are important for the ammonia - nitrite breakdown which is why your ammonia disappears. Unfortunately, you've likely got so many that they are competing the Nitrobacter out, which are important for nitrite to nitrate reactions. Stop dosing ammonia for a couple of days and let it settle. Give the Nitrobacter time to catch up. Link to comment
cju84 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 +1 to what Tibbsy said. If you're looking for advice, listen to the guy. Link to comment
acrab78 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Run the tank like you will once it is complete and holding fish, as far as temp... no reason to crank the heat up... Link to comment
CCXGT Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Well Tibbsy... I lowered the temp to around 81, I never slowed the ammonia dosage down though.. Anyways, it's now Day 20 of the cycle: Ammonia is at 0.5, I just ran out of test tubes... Now I need to do a 100% water change, keep up the ammonia and monitor the tank for a week or two, right? Link to comment
acrab78 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Quit dosing amonia... Do a 50% water change due to nitrates and add some fish or whatever you want. Link to comment
CCXGT Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 I'll do the water change the day before I get my first fish, probably Saturday. I was expecting to need to add a CUC... But apparently not at the mo.. I'm rather excited about this. Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yeah your nitrites are down - nitrates will catch up as they are consumed. Ammonia will fluctuate if you keep adding it. I'd stop dosing, let the tank stabilize for a couple of days, do a small water change and then get a fish. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 if you will post a full tank shot we can tell how much ammonia you have sounds hard to believe I know its more reliable than api test kit so post it, we'll make the call, then go compare to a non api kit and post back love this game its fun. If you have coralline on your live rocks you dont have ammonia, all that before we even get pics~ its not that ammonia and coralline have a thing in common, but im predicting for this tank it surely does. if your rocks are bone white id agree you may have some ammonia, but I think your ammonia has been zero since first post. off your above readings I think you may be working with aged live rock from a pet store, lets see, curious Link to comment
CCXGT Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Right.. Temp is down to 78°. Stop dosing ammonia. Wait a few days. Do a biggish water change. Get first fish. 1 last question... I do have some CP Elite which hasn't been used at all during the cycle. At what point should I add it? Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Add it before the fish. Put it in now and let it chill for a couple of days and get working. As for ammonia via picture, no. Maybe, MAYBE you could tell based on coralline, but that assumes you had any to begin with, that your camera and light are optimal, etc. Link to comment
CCXGT Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 if you will post a full tank shot we can tell how much ammonia you have sounds hard to believe I know its more reliable than api test kit so post it, we'll make the call, then go compare to a non api kit and post back love this game its fun. If you have coralline on your live rocks you dont have ammonia, all that before we even get pics~ its not that ammonia and coralline have a thing in common, but im predicting for this tank it surely does. if your rocks are bone white id agree you may have some ammonia, but I think your ammonia has been zero since first post. off your above readings I think you may be working with aged live rock from a pet store, lets see, curious I originally started with about 6lb Dry Rock and went to pick up some LR pieces from the LFS, one just happened to have coralline on it. Blues: Whites: Small bit of LR with Coralline on it: Link to comment
CCXGT Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Add it before the fish. Put it in now and let it chill for a couple of days and get working. As for ammonia via picture, no. Maybe, MAYBE you could tell based on coralline, but that assumes you had any to begin with, that your camera and light are optimal, etc. I've squeezed the CPE in.. The bag is larger than I imagined. I rinsed it out for a minute or two under the tap, as instructed. Water looked like oil but I spose that's why you rinse it... Link to comment
Polarcollision Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 +1 to everything Tisby says. He knows his bacteria. :-) I think I see a brown film on the sand? Maybe? Hard to tell from pic. Anyways that brown film and then hair algae is the final proof life is able to be supported in your tank. Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 If you have ANY reservations about your water, wait a week or so and then get your fish. Rushing leads to bad things in this hobby. An extra week won't hurt and will give you more time to gauge the baseline of your tank. No NEED to do this, but if you are unsure, put the brakes on a bit Link to comment
CCXGT Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 +1 to everything Tisby says. He knows his bacteria. :-) I think I see a brown film on the sand? Maybe? Hard to tell from pic. Anyways that brown film and then hair algae is the final proof life is able to be supported in your tank. Apart from a few diatoms on a piece of rock, I'm not sure about this brown film, probably just my crappy camera. Link to comment
CCXGT Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 If you have ANY reservations about your water, wait a week or so and then get your fish. Rushing leads to bad things in this hobby. An extra week won't hurt and will give you more time to gauge the baseline of your tank. No NEED to do this, but if you are unsure, put the brakes on a bit I'm not against holding off a few days, turns out we're having a big Christmas Do... Perhaps a new lil fishy won't appreciate 15 people running around the house like idiots. Anyways, should I hold off on the water change until it's ready for a fish or do it now? Link to comment
Polarcollision Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I'm not against holding off a few days, turns out we're having a big Christmas Do... Perhaps a new lil fishy won't appreciate 15 people running around the house like idiots. Anyways, should I hold off on the water change until it's ready for a fish or do it now? You have diatoms on a rock so your tank is able to support more complex life now. Personally, I'd stop dosing ammonia and start feeding the tank mysis and pellets as if you had a fish in there. I'd also start doing water changes to lower nitrates below 10 (ideally below 5). Don't add a fish if your nitrates are still at 160. 40 is the commonly quoted high range for fish-only systems, but even that level is high and unkind to me. Nitrates are the least harmful nitrogen waste, but they'll still damage liver, kidneys, gills, etc of fish. Just a thought that Tibsy can weigh in on, maybe the high nitrates are partial cause of your ammonia reading from die-off? Link to comment
CCXGT Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 You have diatoms on a rock so your tank is able to support more complex life now. Personally, I'd stop dosing ammonia and start feeding the tank mysis and pellets as if you had a fish in there. I'd also start doing water changes to lower nitrates below 10 (ideally below 5). Don't add a fish if your nitrates are still at 160. 40 is the commonly quoted high range for fish-only systems, but even that level is high and unkind to me. Nitrates are the least harmful nitrogen waste, but they'll still damage liver, kidneys, gills, etc of fish. Just a thought that Tibsy can weigh in on, maybe the high nitrates are partial cause of your ammonia reading from die-off? So just start doing water changes to get the Nitrates to lower.. Got it. I would switch to adding food rather than Ammonia but I actually don't have any yet. I'm just picking it up with the fish next week. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.