Thoughts on budget Mini unit.

[cthumphr]

Ok, my question is - is there a way to set it up so that you can have just blues? I am all for a bare bones unit, and forgive me as I don't know the technology as well as I should. For about $200, I'd want a light that I could turn off or down the white LED's and just have the blue's on so that at night I can view the tank under the blue lighting with the coral's colors popping. Is that possible? Can you wire the LED's such at White are on one power switch, and blues are on another? Not thinking dimming, but just on and off - would that make it cheaper? I realize DIY folks do this all day long - but I am not sure of how allowing that functionality impacts your costs.

 

Thanks.

[smiz]

I'd have to agree, I think being able to separately control your blues and whites would be a major selling point. I know I bought a two onyxs which could only be controlled by a controller and had to do a whole DIY project just to get my blues and whites separate. PITA. This if I were shopping for a light for my nano this is what I would look for.

[brad908]

Thats why there is an option to spend $50 more for a controller.

 

AT $250 for a mini with full controller, that is still about $25 cheaper than an AI Nano, which doesn't have a full controller.

[cthumphr]

Here's my 2 cents... When you look at the market as a whole, you've got 2 or 3 groups (in my opinion). You've got those who can or are willing to spend whatever it takes to have a great light - I put those folks in the $300 plus category. I'm saying $300 plus for a light with all the fixins', controller, mounting options, etc. Then you've got the middle range folks, which is the target market I think Dave wants to reach. In my mind, those folks are tempted by Chinese Ebay stuff, but would rather have top quality. They see the value of NANO BOX, but they lack the financial freedom to pull that trigger. When I look online Chinese units for Nano tanks range from $99 to $150. I'm talking about a dimmable fixture, not just a PAR 38 bulb. A PAR38 Bulb is around $99 - obviously an EBAY one is way cheaper, but in most cases these are inferior to the more expensive ones....

 

Ok, so back to the middle group. They are looking around that $99 to $150 range for a light. If Dave's new light comes in around $175 with the ability to have blues and whites then he is getting real close to taking a lot of market share in that middle group. If he could ever get that light to $150, I think his volume would go up so much he'd have to hire help. Again I am just guessing, I really don't know how BIG that middle market is, but my gut tells me there is a lot of market share out there in the $150 range.

 

Then you have the lower tier of folks that are buying PAR38's for $30 on Ebay or using GU10 bulbs to power their nano. Nothing wrong with that, but there are trade offs with it sure.

 

Dave mentioned he may get the price to $189 which I think gains him more market share - if by any chance he gets a Nano fixture to $150, I think there is a flood of business.... but I realize we are talking about high quality craftsmanship here, so a higher price is expected and warranted here.

Dave I am glad you are looking into this option, I think it will help your business expand.

[tibbsy07]

200 basically gets you a fixed arm, nice full spec unit that can simply be upgraded to a controller, Storm or Bluefish, later by simply plugging it in. It's perfect. The dimming option would only come with the controller, but considering that the light is dimmable, there is no reason that a person couldn't get a cheap dimmer from home depot or something to run the light while they saved for the controller.

[brad908]

Are you guys including shipping in your overall price?

 

[tibbsy07]

Are you guys including shipping in your overall price?

I was not - I don't usually. Most people seem to compare prices of the light unit alone as shipping varies depending on location, etc. When I compare the Duo w/ storm controller to the 20" R420R, I simply compare 450 to 420.

[cthumphr]

I was not including shipping - just thinking of the unit itself. My thought is Dave can offer the unit at a given price and see how busy he is. If he is swamped, keep things as they are. If he needs a boost, offer Free Shipping and see if that increases sales any... But at this price range, I'm thinking the shipping isn't a big factor on the consumer's decision - more the price of the unit. Now, at a lower price point, like those $30 Chinese LED bulbs, yeah shipping is a factor. Better be free for a cheap LED.

[NanoTank1]

Dave, I just sent you a PM. Thanks.

[gsgentry]

Not sure the pricing, but what about offering the manual dimmers with it so people can turn them up and down manually. Cost couldn't be that much. I feel like everyone would want some way to dim blues or whites, or both. My old ecoxotic light had these cheap things, but at least I was able to dim with them.

[NanoTank1]

I agree. Manual dimmers especially to achieve 'moonlight' at night and have the lights strong enough to grow a decent spread of coral including some SPS like birdsnest in a smaller-sized tank.

[Horerczy]

A manual dimmer would have to add cost. Dave uses meanwell ldd drivers which require a 0-5v pwm signal for dimming. For manual dimming this requires a power supply and a 555 timer for something like a potentiometer.

[DaveFason]

The point is to be a simple plug and play LED lamp. I sell the Mini Tide with manual dimming for $250

 

I want to target this to be a nice and simple LED lamp. I see PAR bulbs selling for $50-100 all day but you still need a socket, some hanging hardware and other little things.

 

I feel if I were to offer a simple plug and play lamp, easy mounting and great spectrum I would hit the crowd wanting something a little better. As well if they get the itch it will have a upgradable unit for much more options. I never will or want to go low end.

 

Let me look into a simple switch or press button to turn the white channel off for morning viewing.

 

-Dave

[Adam_Bobomb]

I think it's a decent idea if you have the bandwidth.

 

if it's a simple plug and play with nothing fancy then you are letting your nano box mini and duo owners they made the right purchase to be above that class of lighting.

 

If you start offering dimming and dual channel control then you might get mini and/or duo owners having some buyers remourse.

[tibbsy07]

The point is to be a simple plug and play LED lamp. I sell the Mini Tide with manual dimming for $250

 

I want to target this to be a nice and simple LED lamp. I see PAR bulbs selling for $50-100 all day but you still need a socket, some hanging hardware and other little things.

 

I feel if I were to offer a simple plug and play lamp, easy mounting and great spectrum I would hit the crowd wanting something a little better. As well if they get the itch it will have a upgradable unit for much more options. I never will or want to go low end.

 

Let me look into a simple switch or press button to turn the white channel off for morning viewing.

 

-Dave

The thing is that you do offer manual dimming at 250 and digital control for more. As it stands most par bulbs are 50-100 bucks and not dimmable. The ones that are dimmable cost like 120-140 but don't come with a dimmer or the actual light mount. To get a dimmer and a lamp/mount adds more. Your budget build offers a cleaner housing for a better light that comes with mounting. The non-dimmable par bulb and mount may cost less but if you want to dim it, you have to buy a whole new dimmable par bulb plus the dimmer. With your budget light, it costs more up front, but with the added bonus of being able to buy one of three controllers (manual, storm, bluefish) later and simply plug and play.

 

I think this budget build is actually a great idea.

[spazizz]

Par38 $89 Fixture $20 Total $109 it's not all that much. I do like the effort though to reach out to meet the needs of your customers. I think 150-175 is a good budget price range to be competitive JMO. I dont see that as low end but Im not you so Idk.

[Horerczy]

The reason those Par bulbs are so cheap is they are mostly sourced from China for all but a few components depending on the vendor.

 

Dave doesn't mass produce anything so he doesn't get the super bulk discounts most vendors get to build par bulbs.

 

If we take a moment to look at quality PAR lamps have what I would call an adequate heatsink. The very largest lamps have active cooling and larger heatsinks which comes with a higher price and sacrificing dimability. Due to the nature and design of all of these lamps hiding them in a small package to hide their look is a death warrant.

 

Dave's light on the other hand look good to begin with and will match almost any design fathomable with a properly sized and cooled heatsink. Their size isn't altogether that much different.

 

The biggest competition to buy from in this case sells the comparable lamp for $119 and their gooseneck for ~$45 so $164. I'd rather scrape together another $35 for Dave's light. Sur eI could get the gooseneck cheaper elsewhere but if the PAR38 lamp impresses than I'm sure the gooseneck will as well.

 

When I think about a comparable PAR38 I think of one that has 16 leds run at 2.5W versus Dave's tide which will probably be the 13LEDs run at about 27.5W total @ 700mA averageing out to 2.11W per per LED with high end luxeon leds while the PAR38 lamps leds remain unknown in brand.

 

It doesn't mean the PAR38 isn't as good it just means that I'm the type of person that's willing to shell out the extra money for a light with a form factor that's more sleak and has leds that I can easilly source with upgrade options.

[DaveFason]

I am going to make a handful next week and see what you guys think.

 

I think it's a decent idea if you have the bandwidth.

 

if it's a simple plug and play with nothing fancy then you are letting your nano box mini and duo owners they made the right purchase to be above that class of lighting.

 

If you start offering dimming and dual channel control then you might get mini and/or duo owners having some buyers remourse.

I have always had the Mini with manual dimming. But for $50 to upgrade to Storm it is a no brainer. The Mini market is a much different market than the Duos and so on.

[frootbat]

I'll be keeping an eye on this, I've been toying with the idea of a Fluval SpecV or an IM Nuvo 8, but don't want to break the bank lighting it. This may be perfect for that...

[Horerczy]

A thought.

 

If Dave has a bunch of these ready with only minor work needed to send off the one could say the extra cost is paying for a unit with expedited build time.

[gsgentry]

Bottom line is it needs to be low cost, full spectrum and dimmable (whites and blues). That is the only way I see this accomplishing what he wants. Just my opinion.

[Horerczy]

Why does it have to be dimmable?

 

Most things in the same price point aren't without accessories.

[gsgentry]

Because that's what people want. Even the cheap ecoxotic models are dimmable. People want it for moonlights, color variations, etc.

[gsgentry]

Maybe I wasn't clear... Not necessity for that price point should it be dimmable, but to have the option that you can easily plug a dimmer into. Something without the controller if someone doesn't want to spend the $50 to upgrade.

[Horerczy]

He has that it's called a mini tide. It sells for $250.