30g: DSB or no DSB?

[Dave ESPI]

Toy Im actualy REALLY whole heartedly enjoyng this thread. I wasnt attacking, just being sarchastic. You are always "on the same page" as me 80 % of the time... I like that fact (A LOT) it makes fer good conversation.

 

Your "research" is correct, but IME ( dealing with many many many tanks and having to use (my) common equipment on them all) Ich does have to be introduced, yes, BUT it never really goes away, the fish just get used and immune to it when healthy. There is no wild ich to speek of in the oceans, its a captive fish issue (oh Boy... I can hear someone turning on the stove LOL).

The Gulf Stream is an amazing force.... its amazing how live rock can be blown from Brazil to Florida and vice versa. Phosphates are in the ocean sands also just like all minerals have "deposits" and are thus "mined".

Not saying that the Bahamas IS Florida, but currents do flow to and fro.

 

You are absolutely correct about the Olitic shape under a microscope and the way it is formed..... BUT it is a consistant bond all the way through.. hence the "Uniform dissolution of aragonite" that everyone loves.

 

No ####ing match here, just playing pitch and catch.... (Ummmm and No its NOT a gay referance...LOL)

[NanoReefer53]

godammit ! now i wish I had the time to go to the recent club meeting. Rob Toonen was there talkin about DSB's.

[Toyfreek]

Dave,

It's all good

I guess on the Ich we can agree to dissagree.

Toy

[gobies]

> topic, topic. gobies's always causing trouble!

 

Heh. You realize my next thread's gonna be "how do I light this tank", right??

 

I do appreciate the back-and-forth, even when it does get me temporarily more confused.

 

So, additional items I'm getting out of this little fracas:

- keep up with the Phosguard, even after I get the RODI unit (it's gonna be a few months until that happens unless I find one cheap)

- quarantine, quarantine, quarantine (but I *did* know that one already!)

- get a bag of the larger-grained stuff in addition to the SD

[Toyfreek]

not to confuse even more but according to ron shimek, southdown is almost too big But for the price it is great, that is why I put *perfect* in my previous post. I would avoid anything larger than SD as it serves no purpose (unless you like the looks of it) Plenum or DSB you will have the same results IMHO, anything short of 4" is not going to help in denitrification, so if you plan on going shallow it doesn't really matter how much then, it is for your eyes only, however less than an inch would not allow for burrowing fauna.

GL,

Toy

[Dave ESPI]

yep.

[Palmetto]

Wow, I got in this one a bit late- which in this case may be good.

 

 

The surface area of nano tanks do prevent the ideal gas transfer from taking place in order to have a very efficient DSB. Does this mean that a small DSB is worthless? No. It just means it is not ideal. Just like having a small tank is not "ideal" for water quality to begin with, right?

 

Shallow sand beds need to be vacuumed. I don't know about you, but vacuuming my 5.5 gallon is out of the question.

 

Sugar-sized is the best choice for your sand bed, and I disagree with mixing in much larger grain sizes. What happens is your little worms and stuff sift the sand and all of the bigger stuff ends up on top (like shaking a litter box, did I really use that analogy?), making a barrier for the life beneath to have to pass through. Southdown sand is only slightly larger than sugar-sized, and I do mix SD with CaribSea in my DSBs.

 

I took a bit of advice from many places when setting up my nano- and went ahead with about a 3.5" bed of mostly Live small-grained sand. I have so much life in the bed it is like looking at an ant farm from the side, so I think it is doing nicely. Nitrates are just fine, even though I hardly ever do anything at all to the tank other than just top it off.

 

"Okay...I guess I'll be buying 2 bags of SD (plus more if the locals want some, as long as I'm making the trip anyway).

The 5.5g fuge gets a very thin layer LS over maybe a bit of SD; last thing I need is caulerpa getting well-anchored in the stuff.

The 15g tower gets 1" of LS and 1" of SD, plus whatever else I need to add to that mix for a jawfish.

The 30g tank gets 2.5"-3" of SD and the rest of the LS, which should put the sand bed at over 4".

 

 

 

Gobies, I think this sounds just fine! Just make sure to get good quality Live Sand to seed with.

 

[tinyreef]

i wanted to clear up the mixed substrate suggestion. i didn't mean a uniform mixture (although you could, too much work imo). i meant having the larger chunks and cc predominantly on the upper layers of the substrate.

 

fine sand will definitely yield a rich microfauna population but defaults that burrowers to be the predominant lifeforms as the medium best suits them. a mixed substrate allows more biodiversity versus the blandness of one type.

 

the oceans are covered predominantly with sand but that's the 'desert' (not really but for mental visual aid, ok?) the oases are the reefs with more varied mediums (i.e. fine sand, rock, cc, parrotfish poop, vegetation, etc.).

 

you can use either successfully, i use sand-only in my refugium and have overwhelming populations of worms. i use mixed substrates in the rest of the tanks. i find a much more diverse population of microfauna in the other tanks versus the refugium (including the tanks connected to the refuge).

[Palmetto]

The problem with crushed coral is that you get so much trapped detritus and food that nitrates almost always run higher and they do not allow critters to work their way through the substrate easily.

 

Dr. Ron says the stuff has no place in our tanks, although that does not make it law.

 

From my own personal experience, I have seen amphipods and copepods taking advantage of the protected areas and have seen higher populations in tanks with the crushed coral. I have also seen nitrates that constantly creep up even with steady water changes, and because of that I am removing CC from all of my tanks. (Although 4 or so of my tanks still have a significant amount in them.)

 

There are pros and cons, but in a nano I think water quality is the most critical- taking priority over biodiversity.

 

Just one humble opinion in a sea of many...

 

[Dave ESPI]

damn it... now ya made me set up ANOTHER "test" tank... I need to see this "oolitic" sand side by side in a tank...

On the right, southdown, on the left my mixture.

Im going to watch animal migration and overall results.

Ill update some time in the next few months.X)

[Palmetto]

Dave, your mix does not appear to have the large crushed coral that I was referring to. It may be crushed coral, but I was talking about my experiences with the big stuff that has varying sizes up to like 1/2" or bigger mixed with sandy stuff. That is what I have had the most nitrate problems with. CaribSea Seafloor special and CaribSea crushed coral in particular.

[Dave ESPI]

OHHH U have Smashed coral U mean LOL... the stuff that can be like the size of Cockroaches and Cigarette butts LOL.. I havent used that stuff in years.... actualy I have, a few pounds decorating the flower garden out back !

 

yeah that stuff really messes up a tank, If U are still using it, dont. Change it....your reef will thank U. ttyl.

[Palmetto]

Exactly what I was trying to say.

 

 

Actually, it does work very nicely in flowerpots to provide drainage for the roots.

 

[tinyreef]

1/2"! yeah, i was talking the little cc. the stuff you're talking about i call rubble rock/pebbles. i use them for free-floating polyps attachment.

 

yeah, the cc i'm talking about would just be around 1/4" max! (occasional jumbo) most being 1/16"~1/8" and just sprinkled around not a complete layer/strata.

[gobies]

I *have* seen firsthand what can happen to CC beds: cement. The bottom of the 15g tower I got had that in the bottom of it. X)

 

Regarding sandbed life... depending on how things go, I may just order a pack of Garf grunge. Or, maybe the CMAS group can be talked into doing a sand "stewpot" (everyone bring some, mix it all up, everyone take some home).