Macros and LEDs

[ll_maynard_ll]

My bulbs in my t5 are probably nearing the end of their life so I've been debating about switching to some sort of LED setup, either diy or some par30 bulbs on eBay for my mixed macro display. Does anyone have any experience on the growth comparison between florescent lights vs LEDs and what amount of blue white or other colors I should go with?

[ragtimewilly]

I don't have any experience with t5's but my dragon's breath does really well under blue and actinic leds. From what I've read most other types of macros do better with lower color rating so I would think chaeto and such would do better with 6500k range.

[grmoore]

I've been using Current TrueLumen Pro 12000K diamond white and actinic strips on my test tank with exceptional growth and color from everything. When I set up another macro display tank, these will be what I will light it with.

[ll_maynard_ll]

I'm thinking about putting some par38 bulbs above my macro tank, they have them on eBay with for pretty cheap with 3w brigelux LEDs. The 7 LED one is 21w with 4 white and 3 blue.

[BulkRate]

Most macros will grow fine under leds, provided you've got some warm-white emitters in the mix or a source of 660nm deep red.

 

Under a previous plain mix of cool-white/actinics I had a hard time keeping anything other than chaetomorpha alive, and that was likely just due to its placement being on the side of the tank facing the room lamps.

 

Just remember that some macros prefer less intense lighting... led arrays are peculiar in that you can bleach out something just by moving it an inch or so laterally and thus end up directly under an emitter's center.

[ll_maynard_ll]

Thanks for the advice, I'm thinking you're correct that I will need something with a broader spectrum. I've been looking into a diy fixture where I can choose the color LEDs on it and dim them if needed. I know its probably overkill for a macro tank but I just got in a cheap 9w 3 led bulb and love the way it lights up the tank compared to the t5s. Right now I have it over my mantis tank with some red grape underneath it to see how it does.

[jedimasterben]

I know its probably overkill for a macro tank but I just got in a cheap 9w 3 led bulb and love the way it lights up the tank compared to the t5s.

Macros aren't non-photosynthetic, give them a lot of light and watch them flourish.

[ll_maynard_ll]

Here is an idea for my 20l mantis tank where I would like to move most of my macros. I realize I'm missing a few pieces and a way to mount it but thinking this might be a good light for macros. Plus, should I put lenses on them or leave them open at 135 degrees.

 

Driver - $15

Mean Well LPC-35-700 constant current driver

 

Heatsink - $17

1.4" x 24" Aluminum Heatsink

 

Power cord - $10

 

LEDs - $45

CREE XP-G 5W Neutral White LED - $4 x 4 = $16

CREE XP-E Blue 3W LED - $3.25 x 4 = $13

Violet UV LED - $4.50 x 2 = $9

CREE XP-E Red LED $3.50 x 2 = $7

 

LED layout on heatsink

w b r w u b w b r w u b

[MeepNand]

For macros, I have not had success with leds, however much it pains me to say it. Some do well, but many don't. It was really a toss-up for me what lived. Personally, I think CFL or T5 will work the best. Leds can be the main lighting, but supplement with T5 or a CFL lamp.

[Subsea]

No one LED spectrum is right for all macro. If you like DIY then build your array and see what grows. In a shallow tank, I would not include an optic lens to focus the light.

Patrick

[jedimasterben]

For macros, I have not had success with leds, however much it pains me to say it. Some do well, but many don't. It was really a toss-up for me what lived. Personally, I think CFL or T5 will work the best. Leds can be the main lighting, but supplement with T5 or a CFL lamp.

I've had explosive growth from a large amount of species, pretty much all of the 'display' macroalgae you will find for sale, both in my display, which is heavily tilted toward blue, and in my sump/refugiums, which were heavily tilted toward red. The deep red/royal blue combo had the most growth I've ever seen, and it also had extreme power - around 500micromols of PAR on the algae. If you don't give it a lot of power, you can't expect it to grow.

[gulfsurfer101]

Screw type cfl bulb are where it's at for macro growth. Halogen is the ultimate but you need the smaller style bulbs so you don't melt your tank with heat rays of death from these work shop style lights.

[jedimasterben]

 

Screw type cfl bulb are where it's at for macro growth. Halogen is the ultimate but you need the smaller style bulbs so you don't melt your tank with heat rays of death from these work shop style lights.

Halogen lamps put out little PAR as they are very inefficient at energy conversion. high wattage CFLs are much better, but still inefficient compared to high output LEDs.

[Arkayology]

Here is an idea for my 20l mantis tank where I would like to move most of my macros. I realize I'm missing a few pieces and a way to mount it but thinking this might be a good light for macros. Plus, should I put lenses on them or leave them open at 135 degrees.

 

Driver - $15

Mean Well LPC-35-700 constant current driver

 

Heatsink - $17

1.4" x 24" Aluminum Heatsink

 

Power cord - $10

 

LEDs - $45

CREE XP-G 5W Neutral White LED - $4 x 4 = $16

CREE XP-E Blue 3W LED - $3.25 x 4 = $13

Violet UV LED - $4.50 x 2 = $9

CREE XP-E Red LED $3.50 x 2 = $7

 

LED layout on heatsink

w b r w u b w b r w u b

This is completely unnecessary for a mantis tank. Mantis shrimps do better in low light so having a high light macro tank will not be good. You could use these LEDs, but you would have to keep them very, very low.

[gulfsurfer101]

I've grown better cheato and sargassum under halogen mini bulbs than cree leds where my sargassum just seemed to fall apart and my cheato just looked weak, skinny and brittle. Under halogen I noticed cheato grew in much thicker strands more fused together and new sprouts almost daily on the sargassum I tried as an expirimentation growth. I'm using the screw type bulb right now behind the cheato chamber of my diy aio 20L with great success.

[ll_maynard_ll]

Thanks for all of the input, I'm just trying to get ideas and knowledge and this forum is a great place with so many of y'all willing to help out.

 

This is completely unnecessary for a mantis tank. Mantis shrimps do better in low light so having a high light macro tank will not be good. You could use these LEDs, but you would have to keep them very, very low.

 

My mantis is a shallow water species that lives in coral and coral rubble so I don't think she will have the shell rot issues that are associated with deeper water species.

[Tamberav]

I have a coral compulsion par30 fuge light over my ... well fuge.. and a reef breeders value led over my 29g macro hex and both grow macro really well. I am constantly pruning and pulling it out and trying to find people to give it away to.

[Arkayology]

Thanks for all of the input, I'm just trying to get ideas and knowledge and this forum is a great place with so many of y'all willing to help out. My mantis is a shallow water species that lives in coral and coral rubble so I don't think she will have the shell rot issues that are associated with deeper water species.

Good to know. I'm glad you've done your homework

[Chew_Magna]

Screw type cfl bulb are where it's at for macro growth.

I can attest to this. I was using a cfl floodlight from Walmart over my fuge and my caulerpa was growing inches a day under it. I'm using an OCReef refugium par38 now and I've seen zero growth since switching.

[jedimasterben]

I can attest to this. I was using a cfl floodlight from Walmart over my fuge and my caulerpa was growing inches a day under it. I'm using an OCReef refugium par38 now and I've seen zero growth since switching.

What is the difference in PAR?

[Chew_Magna]

What is the difference in PAR?

I have no idea what the par was on the cfl bulb. It was just a standard flood light you can get in any hardware shop. Lemme look for it, it's still in the lamp. Let's see... GE brand, 26w, PAR38XL, blahblahblah... Ah here we go: http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=COMMERCIALSPECPAGE&PRODUCTCODE=80895

 

That right there is a macro growing beast. It'll look like crap but if all you want is growth then this is it.

[jedimasterben]

26w CFL bulbs emit around 100 PAR or so at 12" IIRC. I can measure one when I get home.

[ll_maynard_ll]

I have no idea what the par was on the cfl bulb. It was just a standard flood light you can get in any hardware shop. Lemme look for it, it's still in the lamp. Let's see... GE brand, 26w, PAR38XL, blahblahblah... Ah here we go: http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=COMMERCIALSPECPAGE&PRODUCTCODE=80895'>http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=COMMERCIALSPECPAGE&PRODUCTCODE=80895

 

That right there is a macro growing beast. It'll look like crap but if all you want is growth then this is it.

 

I'm not going for just growth, my t5s have great growth as they are. I'm going for looks and growth and I love the way LEDs look over a tank. So I was hoping for the best of both worlds.

[Chew_Magna]

I'm not going for just growth, my t5s have great growth as they are. I'm going for looks and growth and I love the way LEDs look over a tank. So I was hoping for the best of both worlds.

Oh I'd never recommend this for anything displayed. It was over my fuge and behind closed doors. The OCReef par38 definitely deserves to be seen in action, so I took the doors off after installing it down there. It looks 1000x better but the growth just isn't the same.

[Subsea]

With respect to macro response to spectrum, it depends on the macro. While it is true that CFL in the daylight spectrum will grow shallow water macro, not all macro wants the yellows and reds. I am currently testing three separate LED spectrum on two red and two green macros. While it is preliminary, I will say this about two deep water red macros, Dragon's Breath and Red Grapes. They do not require the lower spectrum lighting. In some cases, the red and yellow spectrum fueled nuisance micro algae. While Dragon's Breath can be pushed to grow fast, Red Grapes is a slow grower and does not respond well to intense lighting.

 

The change to LED lighting requires big adjustments by photosynthetic organisms. Some take longer than others to adjust, some never adjust.

Patrick