DIY Auto Top Off

[asred9]

Hi guys do you know how this guy made his auto top off:

maybe you draw a diagram of some sort how it is wired thanks

[MeepNand]

Google "simple auto top off with portable air pump" and see what comes up.

 

Right here: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/136990-el-fabs-pico-reef-20072010/?p=2073997

[asred9]

So I just splice the extension and insert the float switch between the live wire right? and thx for promt reply.

[farkwar]

So I just splice the extension and insert the float switch between the live wire right? and thx for promt reply.

 

Don't do that.

 

You don't want high voltage going into a tank of water.

 

That's just a little magnetic switch inside the float switch. Running house voltage through will fuse it together.

[justin carnecchia]

Most people run the switch on a relay. Check out autotopoff.com they sell all the parts as well as complete systems starting at around $35. they don't have all the bells and whistles that some of the expensive systems have but if you're on a budget they should do the job.

[MeepNand]

Don't do that. You don't want high voltage going into a tank of water. That's just a little magnetic switch inside the float switch. Running house voltage through will fuse it together.

That's not technically true. The pump will fail before the switch does IME.

I got something like 40k uses out of ym float switch before my 5w maxijet pump failed on me. Float switch still works.

 

However, solid state relays can be had on ebay for $8. Considering that you are only using a few watts, the cheapest ones will work nearly forever.

[clamluvr]

Meep , I think he meant if he feeds the switch with line voltage that it would just melt the internals into a streight path for the ewectwicty.

[MeepNand]

Meep , I think he meant if he feeds the switch with line voltage that it would just melt the internals into a streight path for the ewectwicty.

I know what he's thinking. But 120v AC doesn't melt the contacts. That what my last post said.

I suggested a SSR in case the OP wanted to be even more safe.

[farkwar]

That's not technically true. The pump will fail before the switch does IME.

I got something like 40k uses out of ym float switch before my 5w maxijet pump failed on me. Float switch still works.

 

However, solid state relays can be had on ebay for $8. Considering that you are only using a few watts, the cheapest ones will work nearly forever.

You're seriously saying that running 110 through a typical magnetic actuated float switch in salt water is a good idea?

 

Ouch!

[farkwar]

I suggested a SSR in case the OP wanted to be even more safe.

I like that better. But I would imagine that the OP building this system his or herself ...well

 

I would suggest just getting one of the regular mini controllers and not worry about cooking things.

 

I bet your controller has the ability, Meep.

[MeepNand]

You're seriously saying that running 110 through a typical magnetic actuated float switch in salt water is a good idea?

 

Ouch!

No, but it does work. Sure, it's a hazard, but if you want to be REALLY cheap...

if OP does do that, replace the switch every few months to a year.

 

I like that better. But I would imagine that the OP building this system his or herself ...well

 

I would suggest just getting one of the regular mini controllers and not worry about cooking things.

 

I bet your controller has the ability, Meep.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Originally I wanted to add a salinity probe, but those things are so expensive a float switch seems likely.

[farkwar]

No, but it does work. Sure, it's a hazard, but if you want to be REALLY cheap...

if OP does do that, replace the switch every few months to a year.

 

You can use a propane torch to heat your tank as well. You could use a charcoal starter as well. Both would work and be cheap.

 

 

I wouldn't suggest to anyone that they do it to save money. Besides the switches aren't cheap, I think mine was like $24 with the mount.

 

 

Bad dangerous advice, Seriously.

 

 

 

[wowser]

Cheapest, safest way is a DC pump and float switch. I've been doing this for years. I use two float switches in series so if one fails the other will stop the pump from overflowing tank. Shape some acrylic into a holder, wire it up with an old wall wart and for $8 you have a safe, reliable ATO. I like these pumps because they push fresh water in slowly. Don't run these pumps dry for long or they will burn out.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-3-12V-Submersible-Water-Pumps-Waterproof-Fish-Culture-Model-Pump-Oil-Experime-/190814163404?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6d6911cc

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Liquid-Water-Level-Sensor-Horizontal-Float-Switch-Hydroponics-Aquaponics-/271221070627?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f26091b23

[MeepNand]

Cheapest, safest way is a DC pump and float switch. I've been doing this for years. I use two float switches in series so if one fails the other will stop the pump from overflowing tank. Shape some acrylic into a holder, wire it up with an old wall wart and for $8 you have a safe, reliable ATO. I like these pumps because they push fresh water in slowly. Don't run these pumps dry for long or they will burn out.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-3-12V-Submersible-Water-Pumps-Waterproof-Fish-Culture-Model-Pump-Oil-Experime-/190814163404?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6d6911cc

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Liquid-Water-Level-Sensor-Horizontal-Float-Switch-Hydroponics-Aquaponics-/271221070627?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f26091b23

Seems like a great idea. However, air pumps can run dry without problem.

 

You can use a propane torch to heat your tank as well. You could use a charcoal starter as well. Both would work and be cheap.

 

 

I wouldn't suggest to anyone that they do it to save money. Besides the switches aren't cheap, I think mine was like $24 with the mount.

 

 

Bad dangerous advice, Seriously.

 

 

1. No, you couldn't. It would not be cheap at all.

2. For someone like me, you take your savings where you can. I bought $3 float switches on ebay.

[farkwar]

1. No, you couldn't. It would not be cheap at all.

2. For someone like me, you take your savings where you can. I bought $3 float switches on ebay.

 

1) That is called hyperbole.

 

2) I know you're just a kid, so you really don't have a lot of risk exposure yourself...you never know. Telling someone to run high voltage through a 22 guage wire and through a tiny magnetic reed type switch in salt water, in my country...could get you into a lot of trouble if someone took that advice thinking that you were an expert.

 

The United States has 70% of the entire world's trial lawyers. And they all have bills to pay and mouths to feed.

 

And even if you are just a kid, in the US your liability could fall upon your parents' shoulder. If you think you're poor now...what if they had a judgement or settlement against them that they would have to pay for for the rest of their lives.

 

Besides, if you really can't afford a $100 controller and a $25 switch and bracket to protect yourself from flood or fire, to put it mildly you're kinda in the wrong hobby. And even if this is wrong, a manual pitcher to tank top off system is virtually free.

[MeepNand]

1) That is called hyperbole. 2) I know you're just a kid, so you really don't have a lot of risk exposure yourself...you never know. Telling someone to run high voltage through a 22 guage wire and through a tiny magnetic reed type switch in salt water, in my country...could get you into a lot of trouble if someone took that advice thinking that you were an expert. The United States has 70% of the entire world's trial lawyers. And they all have bills to pay and mouths to feed. And even if you are just a kid, in the US your liability could fall upon your parents' shoulder. If you think you're poor now...what if they had a judgement or settlement against them that they would have to pay for for the rest of their lives. Besides, if you really can't afford a $100 controller and a $25 switch and bracket to protect yourself from flood or fire, to put it mildly you're kinda in the wrong hobby. And even if this is wrong, a manual pitcher to tank top off system is virtually free.

1) Gleaned that, but I wasn't too sure.

2) I use more electricity than any other human being in my household, and am planning on taking courses at the local college. While I agree that it's not extremely safe, as long as none of the wires not directly connected to the float switch are under water, it's not extreme danger. Again, for people as poor as me, you get your savings where you can.

We run high voltage aquarium pumps and heaters all the time. Yes, they are proven, but so are float switches. If the OP is really worried, a coating of aquarium-safe epoxy on top of the wires will work to insulate it very well provided it forms a good bond with the wire's heatshrink. You would need to test the epoxy on the wires connected to the float switch.

IMO, it's a lot more dangerous to have a solid state relay with terminal blocks for connectors to use with the float switch than to just route the power through the float switch. Depending on the style of connector, you risk electrocution a lot more.

And I don't need to pay $125 to top off my aquarium when I can pay $5. I never get that about people; why would you pay $125 for something you can make yourself for very cheap?

 

Also, as I am a kid, please explain to me how my running AC voltage through a float switch will cause monetary problems for my parents.

 

 

To the OP:

Look, in any case, the safest option is to forgo running an AC pump at all and instead run a DC power battery air pump. Batteries last for near forever when in use as a top-off device.

[farkwar]

why would you pay $125 for something you can make yourself for very cheap?

Because it only cost the $25 for the float and bracket. I got the RKL to control my lights and pumps, and monitor my temp, specific gravity, and pH.

 

Having it run low voltage through the wires, and fail-safe'ing the ATO air lifter pump was just a free added bonus.

 

I need to research how the NET module can connect to wifi next. I'm still debating if I should get the ALC or use a Typhon for my LEDs(I would need to toss my existing drivers and switch to PWM drivers for that). Do you know of a way to convert the PWM signal of the Typhon to 10v analog?

 

My initial hesitancy toward the Typhon was mainly that it had no enclosure, but I found the BadReef thingy which looks cool. Honestly, I would rather use yours once its out of beta; looks promising.

[farkwar]

Well, look what I found looking for a DC water pump.

 

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=221233145751

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221233145751?redirect=mobile

 

 

Hmmm

[MeepNand]

Well, look what I found looking for a DC water pump.

 

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=221233145751

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221233145751?redirect=mobile

 

 

Hmmm

To OP: Don't bother with my suggestions. farkwar is right.

Unless you are me, all this stuff is pretty dangerous.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

[farkwar]

Meep,

 

How many total outputs can that Arduino unit run? The one your controllers are based on. I've seen 7x7x7 LED array cubes run off one, so there has to be a lot.

 

It's probably done through some form of matrix, though, I'm sure. I doubt it has 343 discrete output channels.

 

I bet you can run your 6 channel lighting array. Maybe 8 channels for pumps and wavemaker use. And 4-6 outputs to control those 12v peristaltic pumps. It would need input for an ORP probe, a pH probe, say 4 temperature probes channels(2 for water temp, 1 for fans, 1 for chiller for example), and a specific gravity probe. A couple channels for ATO switching with outputs.

 

Do you think that a full-on controller like that could be run off one Arduino based board?

I was joking in that other post about the Raspberry Pi, but I bet it could handle that since its a full on computer. It doesnt have a time date thingy which sucks for controller usage, of course. I would assume that some form of battery power device could be annexed to it to back it up.

 

 

Ps, the most I've done is make a wave maker back in the early 90s before they became popular. It had a radio shack 555 timer thingy with two old fashioned actual relays(that clicked). And the power heads that it was connected to made clicking/clacking noise whenever they switched on and off. I thought at the time that no one would buy such a noisy device for a reef setup in their home, I dropped the "WaveMaster" project after I figured even I wouldn't buy it.

[MeepNand]

Meep,

 

How many total outputs can that Arduino unit run? The one your controllers are based on. I've seen 7x7x7 LED array cubes run off one, so there has to be a lot.

 

It's probably done through some form of matrix, though, I'm sure. I doubt it has 343 discrete output channels.

 

I bet you can run your 6 channel lighting array. Maybe 8 channels for pumps and wavemaker use. And 4-6 outputs to control those 12v peristaltic pumps. It would need input for an ORP probe, a pH probe, say 4 temperature probes channels(2 for water temp, 1 for fans, 1 for chiller for example), and a specific gravity probe. A couple channels for ATO switching with outputs.

 

Do you think that a full-on controller like that could be run off one Arduino based board?

I was joking in that other post about the Raspberry Pi, but I bet it could handle that since its a full on computer. It doesnt have a time date thingy which sucks for controller usage, of course. I would assume that some form of battery power device could be annexed to it to back it up.

 

 

Ps, the most I've done is make a wave maker back in the early 90s before they became popular. It had a radio shack 555 timer thingy with two old fashioned actual relays(that clicked). And the power heads that it was connected to made clicking/clacking noise whenever they switched on and off. I thought at the time that no one would buy such a noisy device for a reef setup in their home, I dropped the "WaveMaster" project after I figured even I wouldn't buy it.

The Arduino Mega has a tone of outputs, but if I make a touchscreen version like now, you only get about 16 pins and 6 PWM outputs.

I'm adding two channels for pumps (wavemakers), but right now the project is almost at a standstill. Clock is completely ****ed up. Dosing can be accomplished with alarms; maybe 4 set ones.

You can add a lot of temperature probes, as they share a data line, but I'm thinking that 4 is plenty.

Specific gravity was ditched when I discovered the $100 price tag for the probe alone.

pH is possible. However, the circuitry is tricky for many people.

 

Also, consider moving or copying your post to my touchscreen controller thread.

[wowser]

Someone PMd me and asked for details. Here's a graphic I made showing my setup. I used a CD case for the acrylic but you can use something sturdier. It is surprisingly easy to work with, just use a lighter to heat it up and bend away. I also used an old 35mm plastic film canister for a snail guard or you can use a short piece of PVC. I've found zip ties work well for securing the snail guard to the acrylic.

 

If you want a safety shutoff (which I highly recommend) you need two DOWN ON switches. They are wired in series--one goes at the water level you want your tank or sump, the other a little bit higher in case something goes wrong (and it always does), the unit will shut off and not flood your tank. Also, be sure to secure the water line going into the tank, as I've had that get knocked out and flood the carpet. I put the floats in the back chamber in my nano.

 

You'll have to figure which wall wart to use. Match to the DC volt/amps on pump. I keep a bunch from old electronics. You can probably under power the pump. I also found a few elbows connectors on the airline hose slows the water to a fast drip, which is perfect for the kalkwasser I use in the ato.

 

The DC motor and dual floats method is a very safe and effective ATO for very cheap. I am not sure what a fancy ATO will offer that this wont but I've only had this, so don't know. It does keep my salinity perfect. Also, the DC motor will burn out if you run it dry for a long time. You can hear it whining, so it's usually not a problem to know when to refill the 5 gallon jug.

 

[Bobyboy]

In my experience with DIY ATO's I highly recommend going with a JBJ or one from Autotopoff.com, save yourself the headache and possible flood/fire.

[two]

I build controllers for pretty much everything, my reef included. To do this safely you need an SSR or a $5 relay shield and it's probably a good idea to put them in a 4gang electrical box to keep that AC locked down.

 

Here is the code and diagram.

I have the entire setup for 2 channels of LEDs, heat control, fans, if anyone is interested as well.

 

I get all the parts from hongkong off ebay.

const int floatswitch = A3; 
int floatstate = 0; 
const int topoffpump = A1; 

void topoff() 
{ 
  floatstate = digitalRead(floatswitch); 
  if (floatstate == HIGH){digitalWrite(topoffpump, LOW);} 
    else{digitalWrite(topoffpump,HIGH);} 
  delay (1000); 
} 


void setup() 
{ 
  pinMode(floatswitch, INPUT); 
  pinMode(topoffpump, OUTPUT); 
  digitalWrite(topoffpump, HIGH); 
} 

void loop() 
{ 
topoff(); 
}  

 

floatswitch.pdf

relays.pdf

[Sub]

I do something similar on my nano tank. There is a simpler and much safer way - dont push AC through that little reed float switch!

 

Grab a $10-15 battery operated AIR pump with a switch - Marina is the one I use. Cut the red or black wire going from the switch to the pump and hook the two leads from the float switch to the cut ends of that wire. The nice part about this is that you still have a switch that you can turn off for water changes or whatever. I've had this running on my 8g 1.5 years and haven't had to change the 2 D batteries yet!

 

Obviously on a large tank this is not a good option, but should still make sense up to 20-30g or so. You can do the math - the pump lasts about 3.5 days on 2 new D batteries running constantly. Figure out how often it would run each day and you can get your rough battery usage. I only go through about 1/2-3/4g every month on my 8g nano jbj because its all sealed up.

 

Marina pump:

 

I like float switches with covers to keep snails out, or use two inline like someone else suggested. In the 8g there is not a lot of room.. This is the one I used:

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/standard-float-switch-with-splash-guard.html

 

With some airline tubing, total cost is like $30. You want to use the smallest bottle you can get away with using. The larger the bottle, the longer the pump will be on pressurizing it and this will hit your battery life negatively, and unnecessarily. I use a 1/2g lemon-aid bottle that I let soak overnight in freshwater.

 

Oh, also grab a container with stiff sides - this will also reduce the time the pump is on because it wont have to push the sides of the container out before it pumps water out. Also, to increase efficiency, keep the height of the bottle as close to water level as you can. Mine is on the floor below the tank, about 3'.