Coral Growth

[Joe]

Maybe you guys can help me...

 

My tank has been up and running now for 6 months I have had the corals I have now for 4 month. The corals havent grown at all!

I have very "easy" softies in there. I have Green star polyps, Button polyps, and colored mushrooms and a yellow figi leather. none of them have grown even a bit.

 

My tank parameters are as follows:

 

10 gal tank

2 * 36 watt PC lights (1 10K) (1 act)

1 powerhead

no sand

18 lbs of live rock (figi)

 

Water is at 1.023 SG

DKH is at 10

Calcium is at 450

Ammonia and nitrite at 0ppm

Nitrate at around 10ppm

 

Im trying to figure out why there is absolutely no coral growth yet everything is living and surviving just fine.

 

There are a few things that I am going to try. tell me what you think. I was going to add 2 inches of southdown sand to the tank. to assist pod growth and break down the rest of the nitrate cycle.

 

Next Im going to add a protien skimmer w/surface extractor. my reasoning behind this is the amount of surface slime I get on the tank. now I know all the pros and cons of a skimmer. but the reason im adding it is the amount of dosolved oxygen in the tank. I dont think it has enough.

 

The final idea that im thinking about is adding a refugium this is going to be a royal pain in the a$$ due to the fact that the tank is in my living room and there is nowhere for me to put the darn thing. to finish up the nitrogen cycle??

 

ANY help would be appreciated..

 

Thanks alot guys (and ladies) in advance for the help

 

Joe

[tinyreef]

do you have a fish in the tank? do you feed the corals or microfauna? (i.e. coral accel, dt, chromaplex, home brew, etc.)

 

the light and background plankton (nano-micro) from the LR sustain the corals with sugars and slight protein but for real growth significant proteins must be injected into the system either directly (dt's & accel) or indirectly (others above).

 

your thought to add a sand bed is a very good idea. this will promote further diversity and a balanced system in many ways (filtration, buffer, aesthetics, breeding & living media). the refugium is also good but may not be necessary (can't hurt). cpr's HOT refugium is sleek. it can also help in filtration through nutrient export via macroalgae and more sand bed area. good luck!

[Goofnut]

Well, Dr. Ron would recommend that your sandbed be at least 3" and preferably 4-6" to prevent it from becoming . I would recommend the same

 

http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm

[johnrags1234]

I went to barnes and nobles today and was reading some reef book and it said that soft corals since they dont have long sweeper tentacles defend themselves by releasing toxins into the water and they cant be filtered out.This could itnurn stunt/delay their growth and leathers most often use this form of self defense hope this helps

[printerdown01]

Just for knowlege's sake: The toxins produced by leathers are actually secreated onto the leathers skin... it will sheet off when it periodically sheds this skin...

 

As for the growth: disolved oxygen can make a difference! Not saying that this is even a factor, but it could be. You don't need to go through the hastle of getting a skimmer to get rid of the slime on the surface!! Just simply put a power head close to the surface, it will also add a bit more circulation to the tank (this will do the trick). Also I know this may sound stupid, but sometimes people just end up with stuff that doesn't grow well in thier tanks... Some tanks are better at growing things than others... you might have just picked the 3 things that won't grow well in your tank... Get some xenia, if this stuff doesn't grow in a couple of months then you have a problem... Honestly, my tank will not keep star polyps alive!! Also have you tried dosing with something like Reef Complete (or anything else that has a variety of supplements)? You may find that you are using a salt/water combo that is lacking in something... Is it possible that you just haven't noticed the growth (do you have pictures of the tank when you started it that you can compare to?)?-just some ideas, some of them are a strech but at least they give you something to try!!

 

**some other notes: I don't think sand is going to help you out with the growth factor... If you like the look of the tank w/o sand go ahead an keep it that way... Nitrates shouldn't slow the growth of your corals... How often are you doing water changes, and how much are you changing? What are you planning on keeping in the tank (with that lighting you could have a blue maxima farm )?? -perhaps try something that needs a lot of light... it is possible that it took everything a while to adjust to the amount of lighting in the tank (although 4 months is a bit excessive!). -hope this helps!!! good luck!

[Dave ESPI]

Im with Printerdown on this one.. the sand will be a mistake. Also about certian things not growing well is a similar experance with me. TO THIS DAY ! I STILL have problems with (ugh) Leathers and Shrooms.X) I can keep LPS and SPS but the leathers always shrink back on me. AFAIC, U need to look at water quality and additives. Try B-Ionic. It might make the difference needed.. You have achieved a ballance... you need to accelerate yer required elements for growth... Keep Us Updated on this thread 1 !

[Joe]

Here is my maintenance schedule:

 

I change the water every week with RO water. I do usually about a 20-25 percent water change. I use Instant Ocean salt. At the time I do the change I siphon all the waste off the bottom and off the rocks. I usually scrape the glass of the Coraline and green algae (like Coraline but green that the snails don't eat) and I get all the surface slime off at that time using a cup.

 

Every day I add DKH buffer and Calcium.

 

Temp stays at a constant 80 degrees and doesn't't move very much maybe a degree or two on a really hot day.

 

I run my light cycle from 1 in the afternoon till 10 at night.

 

4 days after I do my water change I add a small amount of strontium and a small drip of phytoplex.

 

Thats all I do to it.

 

Well thanks for all your replies

Joe

[Satchmo]

Then I too would tend to agree with printerdown. Pulling off the surface scum once a week may not be cutting it, especially if it's sitting there between water changes, impairing gas exchange. All you have to do it aim one of your PH's up to break up the surface a bit, and that should eliminate its build-up altogether. If that doesn't work, not sure what to tell you. I know with my star polyps, for instance, I can watch their mat grow almost daily. Good luck, keep us posted.

[tinyreef]

yuck, if there's that much surface slime then that would definitely reflect or block significant light transmission. you may want to run some carbon as well to scrub the water (also light blockage).

 

i agree with satchmo and the others about the o2 transfer, very critical for many livestock. although it shouldn't affect the photosynthetics as much, as they produce significant amounts of o2 themselves (well tech. their symbiont algae does). although the entire ecosystem will benefit from that bit of maintenance.

 

i'd have to disagree on the sand bed issue though. for aesthetic reasons alone the sand's worth it. (1"~3") also there are the other aspects noted (i.e. buffering, surface area, and biodiversity).

 

i'm not a REALLY deep dsb user (like calfo or goemans) but there are other stronger advocates out there . my thought is that it's more than equivalent to almost any amount of LR you can put in for completing the ecosystem and supplying surface area for beneficial bacteria. it's denitrating aspect is still in the jury room though. good luck either way!

[Joe]

Ok...

 

So far Ive added a small power filter on back of the tank I think this will fix the problem of disolved O2 in the water. because its discarge is right on the surface of the water and it agitates it very much this also fixed surface slime problems without causing the tank to look like its going though a hurricane (like another power head did). Ill keep you all updated on what happens next on this thread!

 

Thanx for the help so far!

 

Joe

[po]

Just for FYI Dr. Ron does not advocate DSB's in nano tanks. In fact I read a thread where he said he would not even put sand in a nano tank. I only have about an inch in mine and it is loaded with critters.

[Satchmo]

It's debatable how effective DSBs are in a nano. But regardless, I still think a sandbed (note: not neccessarily a DEEP sandbed) is a valuable addition. Besides making the tank look 10x better than a bare bottom, the sand will play host to tons of life that would otherwise have nowhere to go. It also acts as a reflector for indirect lighting, boosts your biofiltration capacitiy, and is all-around more natural for your inhabitants.

 

I get all the denitrification I need from my rock (never measured a lick of nitrate), but I still would not go without sand. JMO, of course.

[Dave ESPI]

Originally posted by po

Just for FYI Dr. Ron does not advocate DSB's in nano tanks. In fact I read a thread where he said he would not even put sand in a nano tank. I only have about an inch in mine and it is loaded with critters.

 

Well Ill bea....... Some one listened to me .....

Oh but It has to come from Dr. "I AM GOD TO REEFS" Shimmek for any one to listen to it.....

 

Sheesh... I dont know why I bother trying to educate people sometimes............

 

PS: I like Dr. Ron very much... when some one doesnt believe my advice.. and it is worthy of Ron) I tell them

to "ask Dr. Ron". 8 out of 10 times we are both within 90 % of each other.... its great....

[BustytheSnowMaam]

Joe,

 

I was about to post the same question. I have a very similar tank to yours- except I have 2x32 PC lights. I have a toadstool leather and some green button polyps (would like more, but the LFS is far away and frags are expensive), and they haven't grown much either. They look very healthy, but don't grow much. I have a 1 1/2" sand bed and 20 lbs of LR, as well as 2 ocellaris clowns.

 

I don't think adding more sand would hurt- aragonite would dissolve and help boost calcium (when the "experts" recommend 4-6 inch DSBs, they're talking about big tanks, not nanos). I'm starting to wonder if it's a lighting issue, though from everything I've read I have plenty. So, if you figure out any answers, let me know. I might ask some others here with a 10 and similar lighting how their corals do.

Good luck,

Tasha

[Sahin]

I have 75W of NO fluoro lighting on my 24G tank and I have had very good growths--I eventully got rid of my Leather and Frogspawn as they outgrew the areas they were in. My bubble coral has grown considerably as well.

 

I posted a thread a few days ago about the growths of button polpys and other hard corals in my tank.

 

Although IMO the lighting in my tank is not intense, I think the light spectrum and colour temps are spot on for coral growth.

 

What is the colour temp of the bulbs you are using? Were they designed for aquarium use or Industrial use?

 

I highly suspect the lights.

 

I also supplement my tank with calcium and Kent Microvert, and my fishes get Hikari Marine-S everyday.

Perhaps there is a lacking in the food supplement as well.

[Joe]

My 36 watt bulbs are 10K and an 03 actinic which are specificly for reef tanks. I was thinking that I might be over what my softies need. I really dont think its the light though.

 

I think that it is some other factor. My initial thought was oxygen now I went out and bought a cheapo powerfilter to break the surface up and the skum that floated on the surface is gone so Im testing my first theory!

 

I am planning on adding a refugium and a small amount of sand to the tank. Im adding the sand because I get little bits of sand under my live rocks every week from critters inside of it breaking it apart and burrowing in it Plus i get fish waste & snail waste that accumlates on the bottom. I think the sand would hide that unsightlyness. The refugium should bring my tank nitrates down to 0 from about 20.

 

I really dont think nitrates play a part in stunted coral growth though. I was talking to fant and he told me to monitor the PH shift so im going to do that to see how much off my tank goes at night. (which i can adjust also with a refugium)

 

My Cousin has started a 40 gallon reef with similar Sp. of corals and his has all grown in 1 month about a third of thier orginal size. My tank on the other hand has shown little growth of anything. my star polyps have grown very slightly but thats about it.

 

The only things he has that my tank dont is Live Sand and a protein skimmer. his tank has more surface agitation then mine did that is why im trying this first.

 

Thanks for all your replies so far I will keep you updated as I troubleshoot though this problem.

 

The weird thing is I get crazy coraline growth! Everyday I see new circles of coraline growing on the glass and on the rocks its got be baffled right now!

 

well thats my situation so far. Ever since I added the filter with a carbon filter floss my tanks water has took on a very clean look to it by the way!

 

well talk to you all later

Joe

[Sahin]

OK, just noticed that at the end of your last post you said you added a filter with carbon filter floss. Now when did you add this? Perhaps this is striping the water of the little micro life thats present?

 

I think the problem might be a combination. As you have now added more circulation, add the sand bed. When the micro critters reproduce etc, some of this can become food for the corals. Your lack of a DSB, the filter floss and little circulation for gaseous exchange and stripping of water of possible food particles for the corals may all play a part.

 

Hope it works out. Good us posted on how it goes. This is quite an interesting situation to figure out for the benefit of all.

[Joe]

I just added the filter with the carbon 2 days ago! I dont intend on running the filter with the floss 100 percent of the time just once in awhile to keep the water looking nice!

 

Thanks for the help though

 

Joe

[Joe]

A Little update on what has happened over the last 3 days.

 

As I stated be4 I added small power filter and started using carbon. My water condition has improved dramaticly as far as appearance wise. It doesnt have any things free floating in the tank and it doesnt have a surface skum/slime buildup. Plus a light odor of the water has gone away. Things are starting to shape up allittle bit in the tank. one little bunch of like two little star polyps have branched off on my star polyps colony and broke off so I moved it to a different area of the tank im intrested in seeing if it become a seperate colony! that would be cool!

as far as how things are comming along with growth i do not know yet because its only been 3 days but i suspect things will pick up from here.

 

Thanks to all for helping answer questions.

Joe

[Joe]

Hia All!

 

I have an update on things that have happend over the last month. My corals are actually growing now. Ill tell you some of the major differences that I have changed in my tank.

 

First thing I did was add a cheapo powerfilter a marineland mini HOB filter. First week I ran carbon to "clean" the crappy water. This filter also has a surface return so it helps with gas exchange to stablize PH overnight and bring in fresh o2 for the fishy.

 

Next thing I did was a 50 % water change to bring in fresh Trace elements and get rid of waste.

 

I also Moved Every coral to the front half of my tank. This doesn't sound like a significant change but in my tank it is because I have 2*36 watt bulbs the rear one is an actinic bulb the front is the 10K. which means all of my corals are under the direct 10K bulb instead of the actinic.

 

Another significant change I made. I removed one of my Powerheads now I only run one. The one that I do run is only aimed at the surface of the water NOT AT ANY CORALS.

 

Im trying to get to where My animals are in as close to thier natural environment as possible.

 

Another Significant change im going to do is add a dusk dawn effect to my tank. I have come to the realization that BLASTING my poor corals with full daylight at once is bad. I have to buy another ballest so I can Timer them differently.

 

I hope you guys can use this information to help your slow growth corals. EVEN my hard coral is doing well in my tank situations.

 

Well Thanks to you all for your help and comments it has been such a help in my tanks well being.

 

On a side note since I have been nano reefing I have learned TONS about the difference between Larger 55 gallon and 10 gallons. a 10 gallon isn't as forgiving as the 55. More mistakes can be made in a 10 gallon. ONE MAJOR differce that I have noticed is that a SMALL powerhead in a 10 gallon had a much more significant effect then a large powerhead in a 55. there is not 4 feet of tank for the water to slow down though the pressure in the 10 gallon is not as high and the flow rates in a 10 REALLY make a difference. PH isn't as stable in a 10 gallon because the water volume isn't there. tempature Changes FAST. in an hour you can go up or down over 10 degrees. Your livestock can only be limited to smaller animals.

 

 

well I hope you can learn from my mistakes

 

Joe

[printerdown01]

Thanks for the up-date! Those were all very smart moves... This type of info is extremely useful to people who are having similar problems, or looking at setting up a tank themselves. I use two things for water motion in my tank: the standard Eclipse 1 filtration (great surface movement) and the return flow from my fuge. I also have to complement you on moving your corals under the actinic lighting. Although they appear bright, they really don't give off that much light!! Thus, it is MUCH easier for your 10K to illuminate them from a distance than it is for your poor feeble actinics. If they make 50/50 type bulbs for 36W I would use them!! Try alternating blue, white, blue, white. This will give you a more even spectrum spread. I'm VERY happy to hear that everything is doing well!

Smart moves that you should be congratulated for:

1)Increasing surface movement

2)Actually using Activated Carbon (people seem to think this stuff is the boogy man in nanos, but it really can be very useful!)

3)Dusk dawn controls!

4)Picking up a HOB, that allows for surface movement and chem filtration -you are right they don't have to cost an arm and a leg!

5)Moving your corals around, when your realized that they weren't doing well where they were.

6)Researching the natural environment of your corals -this will at least give you more incite as to what the corals will need.

7)Last but not least: The most important one of all.... Sharing your solutions!!

 

-A big thanks from everyone (I'm sure everyone will agree on this one)

[BustytheSnowMaam]

Hi-

 

You did some good things and this thread was helpful to me in sorting out my thinking. I also posted earlier in this thread that my corals weren't growing either. Since then, they're growing just fine, my GBPs are spreading to the rocks and my toadstool is obviously larger. I think that time was a factor here as well.

TAsha

[Strife]

HEY, lets trade tanks..i wish my corals doesnt grow at all