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Kent Tech M Bryopsis treatment

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seabass

KENT TECH M BRYOPSIS TREATMENT

Use: Aid in the removal of Bryopsis algae

When using this product: Keep the phosphate level at or below 0.03ppm. Discontinue use of a Poly-Filter (as it has been thought to adsorb the effective ingredient in Tech M). Do not increase magnesium levels more than 200ppm per day. Do not exceed a magnesium level of 2100ppm. Do not add new livestock while magnesium levels are elevated.

Directions: Add one dose of Kent Tech M daily to boost magnesium by 200ppm each day, for four consecutive days (in order to achieve a target level of 2100ppm).* Maintain this level until the tank is free of Bryopsis (usually between three and six weeks), then let magnesium levels return to normal via consumption and export during regularly scheduled water changes.

Testing: It is recommended that you use a test kit to confirm that the magnesium level doesn't exceed 2100ppm. Testing is always recommended when dosing any product into your aquarium; however, with precise dosing, it is possible to use this treatment without a magnesium test kit.**

Tip: In order to test these levels of magnesium, it might be necessary to dilute a tank water sample in half with RO/DI or distilled water (then double the result to get your actual magnesium level).

Dosage: Per the bottle, 1ml of Tech M will raise the magnesium level of one gallon of saltwater by 18.4ppm. So 11ml will raise the magnesium level of one gallon of saltwater by about 200ppm.

Manual removal: For a better chance of success, it is necessary to manually remove the algae during treatment. Tweezers are the most effective method, but a toothbrush can be used when the algae starts to get pale and soft, If possible, brush off the rock in a bucket of saltwater to make things easier and to help prevent algae fragments from entering the display.

Water changes: It is recommended that you continue to perform regular water changes during treatment. To compensate, (after the water change) add 44ml of Kent Tech M to the tank for every gallon of water changed.

Specific gravity: Dosing this product will affect the specific gravity of saltwater, Special attention and corrections need to be made to keep sg within proper ranges.

Warnings: Use this treatment at your own risk. Kent Tech M is not intended to be used in this manner, nor has this treatment been endorsed by the manufacturer. Neither Kent nor I will be responsible for damage caused by using the above treatment.

*You must use Kent Tech M, as other magnesium supplements don't seem to produce the same results.
**Assumes a starting magnesium level of 1300ppm.




Original Post:

It seems that many of us are using Kent Tech M magnesium supplement as treatment against Bryopsis. Since this particular product seems to get better results than other magnesium supplements, it is thought that it's not the magnesium, but a trace element, contaminant, or combination of ingredients that makes it a useful treatment.

Since we have not clearly identified the ingredient(s) that make it work, we don't know what to test for (or even if there is a suitable hobby grade test kit available). For this reason, we use the main ingredient (magnesium) to manage the dose of the effective ingredient (which is unknown and/or not easily monitored).

Again, assuming that the algaecide is a trace element (or contaminant) and not the actual magnesium, the magnesium level is not as important as the increase from the initial level. For example, increasing magnesium from 1150 to 1800 introduces more product than going from 1400 to 1800. So I feel that the initial level needs to considered (and not just the target level).

To treat Bryopsis, it seems common to increase magnesium levels, (with Tech M) to a target between 1800 and 2000ppm. So maybe it would be better to indicate a specific increase in magnesium levels (versus a target level). Whatever the effective amount of increase, I wish that people reporting use of this treatment would list the initial magnesium level for reference.

We can easily test our water's magnesium levels, and it seems to appear that magnesium is relatively safe at higher concentrations. Therefore it is possible to use the magnesium level as a way to monitor the dosage of the trace element(s) in Tech M (whatever that might be).

A number of people speculate that the effective ingredient is copper (which can be used as an algaecide). Plus copper is one of the known ingredients in their magnesium supplement. This is also true of saltwater mixes and many other supplements; so no surprise there. However, as a result, we might be exposing our tanks to a mild copper treatment, and are using magnesium levels to monitor its dosage.

This makes some sense why smaller daily increases seem to be less effective. Not so much that the algae becomes resistant, but that the copper binds to the calcium in the rock and sand (before reaching an effective concentration). It might also explain why snails seem to be some of the first animals that are effected by higher concentrations. Just speculation on my part.

We all are aware of the toxicity of copper in our reefs, so i am a little concerned about dosing copper. Keep in mind that we don't know if copper is the mystery element, or that using Kent Tech M (in a manner that it was never intended to be used), exposes our reefs to dangerous copper levels. However, even it the ingredient is something else, the side effects of elevated copper levels is still a bit concerning (warranted or not).

Also, it is suggested that we don't use a Poly-Filter during treatment, as it might adsorb the effective element. However, I read that using one does not show a blue or green color change which would indicate the removal of copper. This makes me wonder if copper is the effective ingredient, and what the actual copper level might be.


Thoughts? (besides TLDR)

Edited by seabass
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Mstefa1

Also, it is suggested that we don't use a Poly-Filter during treatment, as it might adsorb the effective element. However, I read that using one does not show a blue or green color change which would indicate the removal of copper. This makes me wonder if copper is the effective ingredient, and what the actual copper level might be.

 

I've gone really, really high on MG and never had a problem with Tech M. The only side effect is that some of my pink corals appeared whiter but they were primarily hitchhiker corals that came in with other frags that I mounted. I did slowly loose a turbo snail but it was a slow death and none of my other inverts were affected.

 

My advise... Don't raise MG slowly as it doesn't help. Raise it the recommended 100/day. Manual removal with tweezers & toothbrush helps greatly. Don't under any circumstances sit there and do nothing.

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seabass

Thanks, I'm already treating with the magnesium level at 2000ppm (raised from 1200ppm); so I'm not really trying to decide whether or not to treat. Although I'm kind of concerned when I think that copper might be the effective ingredient.

Any idea if the Salifert copper test kit is an adequate low range kit? It might be too late, but I'm wondering if I can get some readings on what's actually going on. I'm a little concerned about copper that might get bound in the rock.


In order to get a proper magnesium reading with my Red Sea Pro test kit, I dilute the test water sample in half and double the result. I started raising Mg by 100ppm per day, and then boosted the last two doses up to 200ppm per day (which didn't appear to make a difference to my coral).

In full disclosure, I'm also dosing 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 40 gallons of water daily. I realize this is a relatively small dose, but my tank experiences problems with a full dose of 1ml per 10 gallons of water. I figure that the Tech M is weakening it, and hope the peroxide might give it an assist.

For a coral frag with Bryopsis, I'd spot treat it outside of the tank with a drop of 3% hydrogen peroxide; and let it sit for a couple of minutes before returning it to the tank (preferably a quarantine tank). I would avoid treating your entire reef tank with elevated levels of Tech M unless necessary.

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xerophyte_nyc

Not sure if this feasible in your case, but I had a nice sized piece of uncured live rock that had what appeared to be Bryopsis growing on one part of it. I removed the rock, manually removed as much algae as possible, dipped the contaminated end in peroxide, then I put the rock into one of my sump chambers where there is minimal light. It has been over a month, and that rock looks good now. I may reintroduce it to the tank, or I may just leave it as is since it is still functioning as biological filtration.

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Mstefa1

Thanks, I'm already treating with the magnesium level at 2000ppm (raised from 1200ppm); so I'm not really trying to decide whether or not to treat. Although I'm kind of concerned when I think that copper might be the effective ingredient.

 

Any idea if the Salifert copper test kit is an adequate low range kit? It might be too late, but I'm wondering if I can get some readings on what's actually going on. I'm a little concerned about copper that might get bound in the rock.

 

In order to get a proper magnesium reading with my Red Sea Pro test kit, I dilute the test water sample in half and double the result. I started raising Mg by 100ppm per day, and then boosted the last two doses up to 200ppm per day (which didn't appear to make a difference to my coral).

 

In full disclosure, I'm also dosing 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 40 gallons of water daily. I realize this is a relatively small dose, but my tank experiences problems with a full dose of 1ml per 10 gallons of water. I figure that the Tech M is weakening it, and hope the peroxide might give it an assist.

For a coral frag with Bryopsis, I'd spot treat it outside of the tank with a drop of 3% hydrogen peroxide; and let it sit for a couple of minutes before returning it to the tank (preferably a quarantine tank). I would avoid treating your entire reef tank with elevated levels of Tech M unless necessary.

 

Seabass, I didn't realize you were currently treating. I thought you were just posting info. Actually I never knew that Tech M contained more then trace amounts of copper so I wasn't concerned about it nor ever attempted to test for it.

 

I've read on RC that most people that dosed Tech M stopped their water changes because they didn't want to dilute but I am a strong advocate of water changes in a nano tank. Not doing water changes may make sense in a large setup but not in a Nano. Just boost the Mg level in your water change water prior to the water change. Just be careful that you don't get precipitation in your bucket. Plus with water changes, you are getting a constant supply of fresh Tech M into your tank. Perhaps the MG in your tank is NOT getting used up (as it shouldn't) so you are never adding more Tech M and the "secret" bryopsis destroying ingredient goes inert over time.

 

I've never dosed peroxide inside a tank but judging by it's effectiveness on bryopsis outside of the tank I'd question it's effectiveness. I've dipped live rock in undiluted as in straight 3% peroxide several times. The bryopsis dies off and comes right back. I've also used a pipette and continuously put peroxide on the base of a frag then scraped the remains with a razor blade. The bryopsis came back. And we are talking a brand new bottle of peroxide purchased specifically for this tank.

 

I'm also not fond of combining chemicals unless you completely know how it is going to impact your tank. i.e. you already know how the peroxide affects your tank I'm assuming from past experience. Now your learning how Tech M affects your tank but do you really know if your concurrently dosing with a mild dose of peroxide? Either chemical may achieve the desired result however combining could create an undesirable result. But I'm assuming that you already researched the affects of introducing both chemicals in your tank at the same time. You think that both chemicals would increase the effectiveness but could they combine to create other problems? Or even cancel each other out? When I'm sick I generally take one medicine to get better. I don't assume combining multiple medications would heal me faster unless prescribed by a doctor who understands the drugs interactions (citing example only as I rarely visit the doctor maybe once every 2 years. I personally believe in manning up!)

 

I'm not saying that Tech M is the answer for everyone as there are several strains of bryopsis however I do have a theory. Manual pruning with tweezers not only keeps the bryopsis in check but it also creates an open wound - or bruise on the algae. This damage to the algae combined with Tech M may be the key to success. Some have claimed that the Bryopsis browned and died on its own with nothing more then Tech M but I never saw it that way. The bryopsis that was untouched stopped or at least slowed it's accelerated growth but it still wasn't going anywhere. However bryopsis that I pruned seamed to die off and not come back in a very short amount of time... Almost overnight.

 

Albert Thiel had a nice cyano thread... Perhaps we can get him to research and start a bryopsis thread. :)

 

Good luck Seabass!

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JPF

I've never dosed peroxide inside a tank but judging by it's effectiveness on bryopsis outside of the tank I'd question it's effectiveness. I've dipped live rock in undiluted as in straight 3% peroxide several times. The bryopsis dies off and comes right back. I've also used a pipette and continuously put peroxide on the base of a frag then scraped the remains with a razor blade. The bryopsis came back. And we are talking a brand new bottle of peroxide purchased specifically for this tank.

This is good to know but bums me a bit. I just soaked two pieces of LR in straight peroxide for ten minutes followed by a good scrubbing. The rock is algae free at for now. I hope it doesnt come back.

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Mstefa1

This is good to know but bums me a bit. I just soaked two pieces of LR in straight peroxide for ten minutes followed by a good scrubbing. The rock is algae free at for now. I hope it doesnt come back.

 

I'm not saying it won't work for you but it didn't work for me. I didn't soak for 10 minutes or scrub it as there was a couple of zoas on the rock. Basically I stuck it halfway in a bowl of straight peroxide for a few minutes, dipped with tank water, then tossed back in the tank. And the bryopsis came back faster.

 

That was my experience. Yours may be different. Peroxide will kill most things on your rock but it will not sterilize it.

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seabass

Just be careful that you don't get precipitation in your bucket.

I've been dosing via top off water. I'm leery of adding anything to freshly mixed saltwater for the reason you mentioned.

I've never dosed peroxide inside a tank but judging by it's effectiveness on bryopsis outside of the tank I'd question it's effectiveness.

Even though I'm currently doing it, I'm not a big fan of dosing peroxide in the tank. IME, at 1ml per 10 gallons, I have had several bad reactions. At less than this, is seems to have no effect at all (although I assume that there is a slight benefit from improved oxygen levels).

 

I've never tried to treat Bryopsis with peroxide, outside the tank before; but I've read that you can. Thanks for posting your experience with that.

I'm also not fond of combining chemicals unless you completely know how it is going to impact your tank. i.e. you already know how the peroxide affects your tank I'm assuming from past experience. Now your learning how Tech M affects your tank but do you really know if your concurrently dosing with a mild dose of peroxide? Either chemical may achieve the desired result however combining could create an undesirable result. But I'm assuming that you already researched the affects of introducing both chemicals in your tank at the same time.

That's a good point. I agree with you in general. And no, I haven't seen others combining the two.

When I'm sick I generally take one medicine to get better. I don't assume combining multiple medications would heal me faster unless prescribed by a doctor who understands the drugs interactions

I look at it more like taking an aspirin, and applying a bandage. I don't see how the two interact with each other. However, I can imagine that an animal which is stressed by one treatment could be further stressed by another type of treatment.

 

I guess I was hoping that the peroxide would do two things; 1) help prevent spreading during manual removal, and 2) further damage the algae to make the Tech M more effective. Based on your warning, I'll probably discontinue dosing peroxide (since I'm not convinced that it's doing much anyway).

Manual pruning with tweezers not only keeps the bryopsis in check but it also creates an open wound - or bruise on the algae. This damage to the algae combined with Tech M may be the key to success.

That is what I have been experiencing as well. Untouched areas seem relatively unaffected, while areas that I've manually removed look good (at least for now anyways). I've been busy removing it with feeding tongs and a toothbrush. I'm hoping the treatments prevent loose bits from taking hold elsewhere.

Good luck Seabass!

Thank you!

 

 

Basically I stuck it halfway in a bowl of straight peroxide for a few minutes, dipped with tank water, then tossed back in the tank.

The thing that might be different from what I've read, was that after the peroxide had been applied, it was left in the open air for a couple of minutes. This might have caused it to oxidize the algae more than putting it back in the tank.

 

IDK, just a thought.

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JPF

http://www.marinedepot.com/Kent_Marine_Tech_M_Liquid_Magnesium_Iron_Supplements-Kent_Marine-KM3471-FIADMILS-vi.html

 

Contents:
Deionized water containing the following elements (as ions): magnesium, chlorine, sulfur, calcium, potassium, bromine, strontium, boron, fluorine, lithium, rubidium, iodine, iron, molybdenum, zinc, nickel, copper, manganese, vanadium, cesium, cobalt, tungsten, selenium, and chromium.

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Mstefa1

http://www.marinedepot.com/Kent_Marine_Tech_M_Liquid_Magnesium_Iron_Supplements-Kent_Marine-KM3471-FIADMILS-vi.html

 

Contents:

Deionized water containing the following elements (as ions): magnesium, chlorine, sulfur, calcium, potassium, bromine, strontium, boron, fluorine, lithium, rubidium, iodine, iron, molybdenum, zinc, nickel, copper, manganese, vanadium, cesium, cobalt, tungsten, selenium, and chromium.

 

We know that already so which ingredient are you suggesting fights off bryopsis?

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JPF

The question was brought up about copper. I didnt read Seabass's post carefully enough. I thought seabass wasnt sure if there was any copper in the mix. I was trying to clarify. I think it contains trace amounts of Vegamite which kills plants according to Wiki.

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seabass

I didnt read Seabass's post carefully enough.

I understand, it was pretty long.

 

I think it contains trace amounts of Vegamite which kills plants according to Wiki.

That's probably as good of a guess as any. :happy:

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shaneandjohn

I have been in the war with Bryopsis for over a year now. I first tried elevated Mag levels using Brightwell mag. I only went as high as 1800 and held it there for just over 2 weeks. I raised it 50ppm a day. I got really nervous because at the time there we not many posts about it. I did see it begin to die, however, at the time of treatment I only had it on the back wall of my Solana.

The Bryopsis then began to spread on the back wall and got onto a Piece of my Live rock. It was then I tried the Peroxide method. I drained about 2/3 of my water out. I then used a fresh Bottle of peroxide. I filled a brand new Dollar store Spray bottle with the Peroxide and Sprayed the back wall and affected live rock. I let it sit for about 5 minutes or so, the refilled my tank, like a regular water change. The Bryopsis did die after the peroxide treatment. I thought I had finally beat it!! This lasted for about 4 or 5 months.

About 1 month ago, while doing my weekly water change, I thought I noticed the Bryopsis on the back wall again. I monitored it for a week and watched it start to come back. I did more research and tit was then that I purchased the Tech M and a new Elos Mag test Kit. I was advised to the different ways of treatment. I raised my Mag levels 100ppm a day until I achieved 1950. I am at the end of week 3 and am finally starting to see the results, but I have already watched it wither away once, only to come back again.

 

I had questioned if anyone had tried to dose peroxide while maintaining Elevated Mag Levels. I found Nothing about anyone combining the treatments.

 

 

I will win my battle, no matter what. I am Determined!!

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Mstefa1

Perhaps its like a disease and that it never goes away forever.

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shaneandjohn

I sure as hell hope not. Lol

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seabass

Perhaps its like a disease and that it never goes away forever.

Reef herpes?
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malady

I have done a peroxide dip on a rock and left it in my dark sump for a month an I can still see strands trying to grow back >_< It seems like this never ends.

 

on 3 weeks on kent treatment and it is not working either maybe I should of just did one huge dose instead of spreading it out

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Mstefa1

I have done a peroxide dip on a rock and left it in my dark sump for a month an I can still see strands trying to grow back >_< It seems like this never ends.

 

That sucks. It's some resistant stuff.

 

on 3 weeks on kent treatment and it is not working either maybe I should of just did one huge dose instead of spreading it out

 

Sure, or you could dump a bottle of bleach in your tank.

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seabass

Sure, or you could dump a bottle of bleach in your tank.

I bleached one of my rocks the other day (there wasn't any coral or anemones on it). It was looking fairly good underwater (as I had been plucking and brushing it for days). But when I picked it up, I noticed LOTS of firm green stalks all over it (left over from brushing it). They weren't getting mushy or light like on many of the other rocks (and were still pretty resistant to being pulled out). The others have some of these, but this rock was particularly bad.

 

I put it in a peroxide bath, then pulled it out. I was going to let it oxidize in the open air for a few minutes; but when I was looking at it, I said screw it (and got out the bleach bottle). I should have taken a picture, but didn't think of it at the time.

 

I'm continuing the battle and Tech M treatment (now up to 2100ppm). Some of my Rock Flower Anemones aren't looking too happy right now. I can't say why (Tech M, peroxide, or something else). I had been doing too much to determine what might be affecting them. I have stopped all peroxide dosing; but I do have a few smaller rocks, with anemones on them, that I might spot treat with H2O2 outside of the tank.

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seabass

I've been maintaining magnesium at 2000ppm (while doing a few water changes). My snails seem fine, but my Rock Flower Anemones are still stressed. The good news is that it's getting harder to find any algae. Most of it has become soft and easier to remove with just a tooth brush. I guess I'm counting on the treatment preventing the loose fragments from spreading somewhere else.

However, there are still a few spots where the algae seems unaffected. I've been hunting them down and using tweezers to pull them off the rocks. I've also worn out two tooth brushes scrubbing the rocks (5 pack at Walmart for $3). I felt like giving up a few times as the effect wasn't as quick as I thought it might be, but I'm glad that I stuck it out.

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Pjanssen

Seabass, any progress? I just bought the Kent M and a magnesium test kit. Ready to start dosing. I was waiting for an update from you. WHATS HAPPENIN WITH YOUR TANK?

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seabass

If I saw my rock at a LFS, I would say that it's free of algae. Even looking closely, it looks clean. However, I was able to find a couple of pieces even today. My rock has a lot of holes in it that the algae can hide from my toothbrush and tweezers.

 

I'm wondering if I had two different strains, as some turned very pale and soft, while some remained relatively green and firm. I'm hoping the treatment helps prevent everything that I have manually removed from growing back. I suppose that's yet to be seen.

 

The tank that I'm treating is holding livestock that will go into a new 100 gallon tank (48 x 24 x 20"). My plans were to move this rock into that tank. I have to admit, that I'm hesitant to do this.

 

I might use this rock as the biofilter (in a sump) until new dry rock (in the display) has a chance to establish suitable bacteria populations. I will probably prep this dry rock with bacteria and DrTim's Ammonium to get it jump started. After awhile, I would pull the "Bryopsis" rock to minimize the chance of it coming back.

 

I had Bryopsis on my anemone rocks, and on my coral rocks too; so (even if I pull out most of the rock), I still feel that treatment was justified. I hope that I don't transfer any to the new tank. I may just transfer my fish until I'm more confident that it's all gone.

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smcx

I tried the TechM thing in my BC14. At 2100, everything algae in my tank was dead or dying (including coraline) - except for the bryopsis. I took all the rock that I could get out, and sprayed it with hydrogen peroxide and let it sit for 5 minutes fizzing out of the water. Killed all of my bristle worms too! That got rid of the bryopsis on all rock but one piece. I was lucky enough to find an emerald crab that loves eating the stuff. Within 3 days all of the remaining bryopsis was gone and it never came back.

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seabass

I tried the TechM thing in my BC14. At 2100, everything algae in my tank was dead or dying (including coraline) - except for the bryopsis.

How much did you raise the level each day? And do you know what the magnesium level was before you started treatment?

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smcx

mag was about 1350 before treatment. I raised to 1700 by 50 a day. After a 4 days of 1700, I got frustrated and just dumped a bunch of TechM (unmeasured) in my tank, came back later and measured 2100 lol. The hair algae I had went grey within a couple of hours! The bryopsis didn't look good but managed to survive.

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