Dciaccia Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Hi all. Trying fish less cycling for the first time with ammonia from ACE hardware at 10% solution and I think I may have added too much. I've been reading that the simplest option would be to do a water change to reduce the levels to stop the inhibition of nitrifying bacteria but was curious if ammonia reducers such as Prime or ammonia reducing inserts like for an aqua clear filter would be viable options as well and if it would have any side effects or consequences? Just a question that I had in mind since I have both from previous tanks around. New here by the way and all the information I've read has been extraordinarily helpful and am excited to be a part of he community! Link to comment
Cryophilous Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Hi all. Trying fish less cycling for the first time with ammonia from ACE hardware at 10% solution and I think I may have added too much. I've been reading that the simplest option would be to do a water change to reduce the levels to stop the inhibition of nitrifying bacteria but was curious if ammonia reducers such as Prime or ammonia reducing inserts like for an aqua clear filter would be viable options as well and if it would have any side effects or consequences? Just a question that I had in mind since I have both from previous tanks around. New here by the way and all the information I've read has been extraordinarily helpful and am excited to be a part of he community! What is your ammonia at? Have you tested it? If it is off the charts, I would do a big water change, wait a day, then test again. If it is still way up, do another change, and so on. I wouldn't add anything to get rid of it. I just like to add as few chemicals as possible to my tank. Also, adding something to bind ammonia could really slow down your cycle. You could use carbon or some other media, but you would just be wasting money IMO. Link to comment
aquatect Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 This is a very good example of why using pure ammonia is a bad idea. The shrimp method: For life! Link to comment
Dciaccia Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 What is your ammonia at? Have you tested it? If it is off the charts, I would do a big water change, wait a day, then test again. If it is still way up, do another change, and so on. I wouldn't add anything to get rid of it. I just like to add as few chemicals as possible to my tank. Also, adding something to bind ammonia could really slow down your cycle. You could use carbon or some other media, but you would just be wasting money IMO. Ammonia was off the charts. I just decided the easiest and best course of action was to drain the tank, soak everything in fresh water, rinse the sand and filters then refilled the tank with fresh water. Tested the water after I had refilled it and got a zero reading. Pain in the butt, but was my own mistake. Better to make one now than later on though! Link to comment
Justin_Freebords Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 This is a very good example of why using pure ammonia is a bad idea. The shrimp method: For life! I did the shrimp method on my first tank and it worked perfectly, although recently I have been reading that it can introduce bad bacteria to the tank. I am currently cycling a new tank using all dry rock, 1-2 pounds of live rock, and ghost feedings with pellets and flake food (just the first few days). So far it seems to be working well. Link to comment
YankeePete Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Trying to force your cycle will only make it take longer in the long run! Link to comment
aquatect Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I don't think that introducing a passive source of ammonia like t he shrimp method or ghost feeding is "trying to force" anything. It is a proven way to kickstart a cycle. Some people have claimed you shouldn't do the shrimp method. I have on both my tanks and never had problems. Many people have had success with it. I have a feeling that the people claiming it's bad are simply blaming problems they caused on something they consider to be out of their control. Link to comment
potxoli Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 dumb question: where does bacteria come from? If you have dry bleached dead rock and some pellet food or dry organic matter to start the cycle, is the bacteria coming from the air? Or does the rock which is dead still contain a trace amount? I've always wondered about this... Link to comment
Justin_Freebords Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 dumb question: where does bacteria come from? If you have dry bleached dead rock and some pellet food or dry organic matter to start the cycle, is the bacteria coming from the air? Or does the rock which is dead still contain a trace amount? I've always wondered about this... SCIENCE! Link to comment
Hunter4255 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Bacteria comes from the breakdown of matter. Like with the shrimp method as it breaks down it releases ammonia which will turn to nitrite and so on. Link to comment
Enigma Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 dumb question: where does bacteria come from? If you have dry bleached dead rock and some pellet food or dry organic matter to start the cycle, is the bacteria coming from the air? Or does the rock which is dead still contain a trace amount? I've always wondered about this... It isn't a dumb question. I've read that the bacteria does actually exist in the air. I don't know if that is true or not. I always add bottled bacteria to the tank. Link to comment
aquatect Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 dumb question: where does bacteria come from? If you have dry bleached dead rock and some pellet food or dry organic matter to start the cycle, is the bacteria coming from the air? Or does the rock which is dead still contain a trace amount? I've always wondered about this... Not a dumb question. The answer is that typically we add a small culture of bacteria to the tank when we start it with dry rock. You can toss a small fragment of live rock in there and it will do the trick. Alternatively, you can use some sort of bacterial additive (like Microbacter7) to culture bacteria from. If you're just waiting for bacteria to grow without intoducing a source of them to populate from you're going to be waiting a VERY long time. Link to comment
potxoli Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Not a dumb question. The answer is that typically we add a small culture of bacteria to the tank when we start it with dry rock. You can toss a small fragment of live rock in there and it will do the trick. Alternatively, you can use some sort of bacterial additive (like Microbacter7) to culture bacteria from. If you're just waiting for bacteria to grow without intoducing a source of them to populate from you're going to be waiting a VERY long time. Glad I asked. I'm on week 1 of the cycle. I have 10lbs of BRS dry rock. I did add two small LR pieces (maybe 1/2lb) from the LFS covered in a little bit of algae, a yellow sponge and a single purple mushroom the size of a nickel. My sand bed was bagged "live sand". Finally on the very first day, I put some shaved raw shrimp in there, a tiny amount, maybe a chunck 1/4" cubed. My ammonia is 1ppm and my Nitrite also went up to 1ppm. Since Nitrite is being produced, I guess I'm OK right? Link to comment
patback Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I don't think that introducing a passive source of ammonia like t he shrimp method or ghost feeding is "trying to force" anything. It is a proven way to kickstart a cycle. Some people have claimed you shouldn't do the shrimp method. I have on both my tanks and never had problems. Many people have had success with it. I have a feeling that the people claiming it's bad are simply blaming problems they caused on something they consider to be out of their control. Effects of heterotrophic bacteria (comes in during the shrimp method. Ever see that nasty white cloud over the shrimp?) http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/my...-slime-part-iii An excellently written explanation of the two types of bacteria. In the case of our tanks, the good and the bad. http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6/bacte...nfo-188919.html A lot of people have been pushing this method saying stuff like " people have been doing it for a long time; I've done it in multiple tanks;I don't see how it's any different from adding ammonia, etc and so on. I think people need to READ about the benefits and downfalls of the method they choose beforehand and NOT tell people a particular method is THE method to use without understanding what's going on. After all, look at how long we have known that cycling with fish is bad, yet it's still being done daily by people who don't feel like searching for a solution or reason behind somthing. Link to comment
lakshwadeep Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 dumb question: where does bacteria come from? If you have dry bleached dead rock and some pellet food or dry organic matter to start the cycle, is the bacteria coming from the air? Or does the rock which is dead still contain a trace amount? I've always wondered about this... The bacteria come from the air and water. You can see this happen by leaving a tank with only water, especially if there is some light (which would favor algae growth). Rock may contain some bacteria; although, bleaching would kill nearly all of them. However, it's always best to have even a tiny amount of live rock and/or sand since a purely dry rock tank will have a much different bacterial community than that found in natural reefs, which can create chronic problems like algae blooms. Bacteria comes from the breakdown of matter. That would imply spontaneous generation (i.e. creating life from nothing). Also, one main reason to avoid using raw shrimp is that it favors the growth of potentially harmful bacteria, both to you and to livestock. Examples include Vibrio cholerae (one cause of cholera). With adding pure ammonia, you are tailoring the food source to exactly the bacteria you want to grow: nitrifiers. Link to comment
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