Phosphate high, 0 nitrate, what should I do?

[mfield16]

Stop doing 20% water changes when you notice something with your GSP.

 

Your only addressing the symptom by adding GFO, try to find the source.

 

Switch to 10% weekly water changes!

Always rinse your frozen food in RO/DI!

Did you get a new Nitrate kit? What are the results?

What is your livestock?

Read up on redfield ratio - use as guideline not the gospel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redfield_ratio

Add the GFO and start out small. Heard of weird things when adding too much and having SPS corals.

 

Recommended PO4 and NO3 levels are .02 and .2.

 

Bacteria that consumes phosphates and nitrates need carbon to do so in a ratio of C:N:P = 106:16:1

 

With that said, I had 0.00 nitrates and .01 to .04 phosphates and had algae/cyano problems. This was due to an out of balance of phosphates, nitrates and too much carbon (biopellets).

 

In my case I upped my bioload (more fish in order to increase nitrates) and started feeding more as well as pruned tons of chaeto and turned my skimmer off for a week. I also added Microbacter7 to compete for the available carbon to lower my cyano (this worked)

 

I know your not running biopellets, however understanding the above will help you a lot in reef keeping and hopefully prevent you from making all the typical mistakes we all learn the hard way.

 

I believe the source to be my rock. I took a bunch of it out and rescaped the tank a bit. I have switched to 10% WC, I now rinse any frozen food in RO water, nitrates are, and have been 0.

 

Livestock is 2 clowns, peppermint shrimp, emerald crab, 5-6 hermits, 8 nassarius, 4 cerith, 2 astrea snails.

 

Don't use a skimmer, prune chaeto weekly, and have now changed the Phosguard 3 times, adding more each time.

 

Phosphate is still .25 ppm. I have had some GHA that I burned off, and I have to scrape my glass everyday or a brown "dusting" will accumulate.

 

I feel like I am doing everything right, I just can't win. Oh well, no biggie. I am soon upgrading to an AC110 and either using a skimmer in it, or getting an inTank basket for it. Any media will tumble a little more in the AC110 with higher flow so that could work out well.

[Adrnalnrsh]

I believe the source to be my rock. I took a bunch of it out and rescaped the tank a bit. I have switched to 10% WC, I now rinse any frozen food in RO water, nitrates are, and have been 0.

 

Livestock is 2 clowns, peppermint shrimp, emerald crab, 5-6 hermits, 8 nassarius, 4 cerith, 2 astrea snails.

 

Don't use a skimmer, prune chaeto weekly, and have now changed the Phosguard 3 times, adding more each time.

 

Phosphate is still .25 ppm. I have had some GHA that I burned off, and I have to scrape my glass everyday or a brown "dusting" will accumulate.

 

I feel like I am doing everything right, I just can't win. Oh well, no biggie. I am soon upgrading to an AC110 and either using a skimmer in it, or getting an inTank basket for it. Any media will tumble a little more in the AC110 with higher flow so that could work out well.

 

What test kits for phosphates and nitrates?

[malady]

has anyone tried seachem seagel or clear fx pro?

 

which is there carbon and phosguard mixed together

after reading this thread I am thinking about trying a bottle since I do not have a reactor for gfo and chempure elite isnt working well for me>_<

[Lawnman]

has anyone tried seachem seagel?

 

which is there carbon and phosguard mixed together

after reading this thread I am thinking about trying a bottle since I do not have a reactor for gfo and chempure elite isnt working well for me>_<

Yes I have used it and noticed nothing different than using carbon and Phosguard. I am switching to GFO very soon.

[mfield16]

What test kits for phosphates and nitrates?

 

Salifert for po4, API for no3

 

Yes I have used it and noticed nothing different than using carbon and Phosguard. I am switching to GFO very soon.

 

I would use gfo if I had a reactor.

[Adrnalnrsh]

as far as I can tell, you need a better nitrate kit still. 0 isn't a good enough reading. You need to have higher nitrates than your phosphates and you can't tell this using an API kit.

[mfield16]

as far as I can tell, you need a better nitrate kit still. 0 isn't a good enough reading. You need to have higher nitrates than your phosphates and you can't tell this using an API kit.

 

What kit do you use/recommend?

 

Are you saying my phosphates won't drop unless my nitrates are raised?

[Adrnalnrsh]

One that goes < 0

 

I'd do salifert if they go below 0 say .2 or .09

Yes it's possible. That's why I mentioned the Redfield ratio.

 

There's a balance.

 

I run bio pellets and I stripped out all my nitrates and had .04 PO4 and carbon and therefore good bacteria wouldnt grow so therefore it couldn't consume the p04 any longer, so Cyano started to grow due to no competing bacteria since it requires carbon, nitrates, phosphates, which cyano can use the available carbon and phosphates.

 

My sps coloration was horrible (pale, bleaching, faded) and my lights were too powerful (lowered to 20% from 80-100%) at that level of ULNS.

 

I stopped my Protein skimmer for two weeks, added microbacter7, and added four fish and now things are good.

 

My problem was too ULNS with too small of a bioload, too strong of light and biopellets.

 

Now my skimmer is back on full time, my lights are at 100%/35% RB to NW and my SPS are coloring up and growing. Cyano is gone. Just need to address so algae growing on my koralias.

[uglyfish]

One that goes < 0

?

 

If your rock is leaching phosphate, it could take months of phosphate removal before it starts to clear up.

[Adrnalnrsh]

?

 

If your rock is leaching phosphate, it could take months of phosphate removal before it starts to clear up.

 

Uh, anything that goes < 0 meaning less than 0. Like 0.9, 0.8, 0.2<-- the ideal number of nitrates. This can't be done via an API kit.

[mfield16]

?

 

If your rock is leaching phosphate, it could take months of phosphate removal before it starts to clear up.

 

Right, so I assume that I would just be changing out Phosguard for quite some time until it actually drops. But now I am confused about the whole nitrate, phosphate relationship. I will get a better nitrate test kit 1st, and go from there.

 

 

Uh, anything that goes < 0 meaning less than 0. Like 0.9, 0.8, 0.2<-- the ideal number of nitrates. This can't be done via an API kit.

 

I think the ? was referring to the fact that anything less than 0 is negative. What you technically mean is less than 1. I understood what you were saying though

 

So new plan of action (assuming I have done everything else right so far):

 

Get a new nitrate test kit to read low values, based on results I may need to add nitrate by some method? I assume adding bioload OR removing chaeto? I prefer to do neither, any other ideas?

 

Should I be using carbon at all?

[Adrnalnrsh]

Right, so I assume that I would just be changing out Phosguard for quite some time until it actually drops. But now I am confused about the whole nitrate, phosphate relationship. I will get a better nitrate test kit 1st, and go from there.

 

 

 

 

I think the ? was referring to the fact that anything less than 0 is negative. What you technically mean is less than 1. I understood what you were saying though

 

So new plan of action (assuming I have done everything else right so far):

 

Get a new nitrate test kit to read low values, based on results I may need to add nitrate by some method? I assume adding bioload OR removing chaeto? I prefer to do neither, any other ideas?

 

Should I be using carbon at all?

 

Accurately knowing nitrates is important. API is good for high range nitrates but not low range. Once I know that I can tell you if its a concern or not.

[mfield16]

Accurately knowing nitrates is important. API is good for high range nitrates but not low range. Once I know that I can tell you if its a concern or not.

 

I will stop by the store this evening and pick up a Red Sea kit. Hopefully it is not overpriced. I will update with results later.

[mpg732]

I would recommend ordering some thing like this for your GFO/carbon.

 

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-gfo-carb...tor-single.html

 

This will work so much better then placing it in a bag in your sump/refugium. Well wroth the investments. Your phosphates aren't that high. Remember Phosphates are needed for coral growth, so you never want to get it to zero. I like to keep mine about .03ppm. If you decide to set up a bio reactor, you also need Nitrates for every thing to work correctly. Your source for phosphates may be any number of things. How deep is your sand bed? Also how much Chato do you have in the refugium? If you let it grow to thick the underlining layers will start to die off, which will release Phosphates. Make sure you don't let it get that thick. I have a larger tank and a much larger refugium, and I am in there about every two weeks weeding it out.

[dormreefer]

Once you get your phosphate down if you want a fail safe you can run for a long time I definitely recommend Rowaphos. It's a gfo and while some argue using it in a bag isn't optimal it keeps my PO4 at 0.

[mfield16]

I would recommend ordering some thing like this for your GFO/carbon.

 

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-gfo-carb...tor-single.html

 

This will work so much better then placing it in a bag in your sump/refugium. Well wroth the investments. Your phosphates aren't that high. Remember Phosphates are needed for coral growth, so you never want to get it to zero. I like to keep mine about .03ppm. If you decide to set up a bio reactor, you also need Nitrates for every thing to work correctly. Your source for phosphates may be any number of things. How deep is your sand bed? Also how much Chato do you have in the refugium? If you let it grow to thick the underlining layers will start to die off, which will release Phosphates. Make sure you don't let it get that thick. I have a larger tank and a much larger refugium, and I am in there about every two weeks weeding it out.

 

I actually looked at that earlier yesterday. The problem I face is that my filter/refugium takes up ALL space in the back of my tank. I am upgrading to an AC110 next week and the space will be 100% gone. AKA no room for tubing at all. I'm sure I could make it work, but it wouldn't be pretty. So at this point a reactor is out. I also sort of want to keep the tank running with as little user input as possible.

 

My sandbed is about 2" deep. I am taking a small amount of sand out at each WC as I want to eventually only have 1.5".

 

I also let the chaeto grow out too much. I just trimmed it yesterday and will do a better job at this in the future. It usually takes up the entire refugium. Is there a recommended amount I should keep it at?

 

Once you get your phosphate down if you want a fail safe you can run for a long time I definitely recommend Rowaphos. It's a gfo and while some argue using it in a bag isn't optimal it keeps my PO4 at 0.

 

Anyone else ever used Rowaphos? Nice tank btw Alex.Are you still using purigen and CPE, or have you decided to use chaeto now instead?

[mpg732]

Once you get your phosphate down if you want a fail safe you can run for a long time I definitely recommend Rowaphos. It's a gfo and while some argue using it in a bag isn't optimal it keeps my PO4 at 0.

I will guarantee you that you Phosphates are not zero. If they were you wouldn't be able to keep coral alive. Most test kits on the market will show zero once you get below 1 ppm. You need a low level test kit that can test from zero to 1 ppm.

[mpg732]

I actually looked at that earlier yesterday. The problem I face is that my filter/refugium takes up ALL space in the back of my tank. I am upgrading to an AC110 next week and the space will be 100% gone. AKA no room for tubing at all. I'm sure I could make it work, but it wouldn't be pretty. So at this point a reactor is out. I also sort of want to keep the tank running with as little user input as possible.

 

My sandbed is about 2" deep. I am taking a small amount of sand out at each WC as I want to eventually only have 1.5".

 

I also let the chaeto grow out too much. I just trimmed it yesterday and will do a better job at this in the future. It usually takes up the entire refugium. Is there a recommended amount I should keep it at?

I bet once you get some of the sand bed out and keep up on leaning out the chaeto your phosphates will start to drop. The chaeto should really help with that process. The trick is to keep enough in the system to help remove excess organics and Phosphates but not to let it over grow to the point it smothers its self.

[mfield16]

I bet once you get some of the sand bed out and keep up on leaning out the chaeto your phosphates will start to drop. The chaeto should really help with that process. The trick is to keep enough in the system to help remove excess organics and Phosphates but not to let it over grow to the point it smothers its self.

 

I hope so. It is hard to get much sand out at one cleaning because there are a ton of pieces of shell and rock, etc throughout the entire bed. Whenever a big piece gets caught in the tubing it takes too long to get out, and 2gal fills up very quickly!

 

I got it as "live sand" from CL so it wasn't perfect. Big mistake I think; I hate how it looks and I can't get all the "junk" out.

 

I am relocating the tank to another room soon, could I just completely replace the current sand bed and go witha very thin layer of new sand? Would my nassarius snails be ok with that?

[mpg732]

I hope so. It is hard to get much sand out at one cleaning because there are a ton of pieces of shell and rock, etc throughout the entire bed. Whenever a big piece gets caught in the tubing it takes too long to get out, and 2gal fills up very quickly!

 

I got it as "live sand" from CL so it wasn't perfect. Big mistake I think; I hate how it looks and I can't get all the "junk" out.

 

I am relocating the tank to another room soon, could I just completely replace the current sand bed and go witha very thin layer of new sand? Would my nassarius snails be ok with that?

When you move the tank, I would clean out the current sand bed in a bucket of salt water, strain out the big pieces and reuse some of the sand you already have. Really no reason to buy new sand. I would put down some of your live rock first, then add the sand back to the tank around the rocks, try not to put rocks on top of the sand bed. I would go about an 1/2 of inch sand bed. Your snails should be fine.

[mfield16]

Accurately knowing nitrates is important. API is good for high range nitrates but not low range. Once I know that I can tell you if its a concern or not.

 

LFS finally received the Red Sea NO3 Pro test kit. Tested today and that too shows 0.0ppm. I tested twice to be certain. Confirms my API test kit as well.

 

So now that I can say for sure I have 0 NO3, what can I do?

 

PO4 is still between .25 and .5ppm. I wouldn't say I have a GHA problem yet, but it does show up and I remove it as soon as it does.

 

I will be moving the tank and removing a large portion of the sand bed within the next few days. I am going to keep chaeto growth in check as well.

 

Without actually dosing nitrate, can I try and raise nitrate by cleaning out my filter floss at longer intervals? Possibly add a fish to increase bio load? At 6 months old should I just let the tank be for another 6 months or so and allow it to stabilize?

[dormreefer]

Anyone else ever used Rowaphos? Nice tank btw Alex.Are you still using purigen and CPE, or have you decided to use chaeto now instead?

Sorry for the slow reply and thanks for the compliment! My tanks been a pain in the butt flow wise recently but hopefully it'll be the last hurdle. I chose Rowaphos after finding several studies online that compared it with other name brand GFO's and it out performed them. I run ROX carbon and Rowa (now phosguard for awhile due to my new clam addition) over CPE as it's the same premise, cheaper and can be switched better. I'm sticking with purigen for the time being as I have no nitrate or phosphate issues so why change?

[Adrnalnrsh]

LFS finally received the Red Sea NO3 Pro test kit. Tested today and that too shows 0.0ppm. I tested twice to be certain. Confirms my API test kit as well.

 

So now that I can say for sure I have 0 NO3, what can I do?

 

PO4 is still between .25 and .5ppm. I wouldn't say I have a GHA problem yet, but it does show up and I remove it as soon as it does.

 

I will be moving the tank and removing a large portion of the sand bed within the next few days. I am going to keep chaeto growth in check as well.

 

Without actually dosing nitrate, can I try and raise nitrate by cleaning out my filter floss at longer intervals? Possibly add a fish to increase bio load? At 6 months old should I just let the tank be for another 6 months or so and allow it to stabilize?

 

So if we trust the test kit, I would say we have somewhat of an imbalance.

 

Prune your macro, maybe add one more fish, feed daily (rinsed frozen food) and make sure when you feed do it in small increments so the fish get it all and it doesn't all fall to the bottom.

 

You could leave GFO (don't recall if your using) but it works best in a fluidized reactor, not as a bag just sitting somewhere. (don't go get biopellets!)

 

I'll tell you, I tried everything, then when I found out I had an imbalance, it took me a few weeks to get things going and now my green monti is going from dark gray to deep green a couple more week and it should be perfect.

[mfield16]

So if we trust the test kit, I would say we have somewhat of an imbalance.

 

Prune your macro, maybe add one more fish, feed daily (rinsed frozen food) and make sure when you feed do it in small increments so the fish get it all and it doesn't all fall to the bottom.

 

You could leave GFO (don't recall if your using) but it works best in a fluidized reactor, not as a bag just sitting somewhere. (don't go get biopellets!)

 

I'll tell you, I tried everything, then when I found out I had an imbalance, it took me a few weeks to get things going and now my green monti is going from dark gray to deep green a couple more week and it should be perfect.

 

Are these the steps you took and balance it out?

[Adrnalnrsh]

Are these the steps you took and balance it out?

 

Yes but I also run bio pellets which is known for drastically lowering nitrates and leaving phosphates.

 

If your live sand was bought used, it too can be part of the problem.

 

I have 6 fish in my 25 gallon display (15 gallon sump) and my colors (SPS) are appearing like crazy.