Cree's vs. non Cree's

[mpg732]

I have used both Cree's LED's and non Cree's LED's to make fixture. To my eye I can't tell the difference. Corals seem to respond the same. So my question is, what is every ones opinion on this matter?

[GTi]

I have used both Cree's LED's and non Cree's LED's to make fixture. To my eye I can't tell the difference. Corals seem to respond the same. So my question is, what is every ones opinion on this matter?

I had mainly Cree but also a few.others. They are all light sources and the max power and efficiency will differ by type and brand. I wouldn't be too concerned if I were you!

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

The different only applies to your wallet and the whites

 

CREEs are going to cost a bit more up front but save you a ton in the long run. so the more of them you can use, the better.

 

CREE whites are also MUCH MUCH MUCH better in terms of color and efficiency than the off brand whites. Big difference on the corals compared to some "10K whites"

[jedimasterben]

The different only applies to your wallet and the whites

 

CREEs are going to cost a bit more up front but save you a ton in the long run. so the more of them you can use, the better.

 

CREE whites are also MUCH MUCH MUCH better in terms of color and efficiency than the off brand whites. Big difference on the corals compared to some "10K whites"

+1, the "generic" LEDs that are "10K" or whatever, or higher, look like garbage. Definitely tricking people into thinking "oh, 10K like my T5, it should look the same!" and they're disappointed when it doesn't and then they turn to the internet to bash on LEDs in general.

[mpg732]

Well this is what I have been able to figure out on the manufacture of LED's. They are all china cheap crap. LOl. They are all basically made the same way. One may not be using better material then the other. During the manufacture process, they do them in batches. Like 10,000 of one type and then 10,000 of another.(I just picked 10,000 as a sample) Now when you order lets say 100 LED's. If you order 100 Crees of one type of color. You will get all 100 from the same batch, plus they will test them to make sure they fall with in tolerance. Now if you order 100 non Cree's you may get all 100 from the same run, or you may get the 100 from 10 different runs. who really knows. So what does that mean, your 100 LEDs that are supposed to be the same may be slightly different in spectrum. I personally never seen any that look like garbage. Unless they are being driven differently or at different power level. Which then even the same LEDs, one could look better then another fixture.

[jedimasterben]

Well this is what I have been able to figure out on the manufacture of LED's. They are all china cheap crap. LOl. They are all basically made the same way. One may not be using better material then the other. During the manufacture process, they do them in batches. Like 10,000 of one type and then 10,000 of another.(I just picked 10,000 as a sample) Now when you order lets say 100 LED's. If you order 100 Crees of one type of color. You will get all 100 from the same batch, plus they will test them to make sure they fall with in tolerance. Now if you order 100 non Cree's you may get all 100 from the same run, or you may get the 100 from 10 different runs. who really knows. So what does that mean, your 100 LEDs that are supposed to be the same may be slightly different in spectrum. I personally never seen any that look like garbage. Unless they are being driven differently or at different power level. Which then even the same LEDs, one could look better then another fixture.

LEDs driven at a different amperage look identical if driven at a higher amperage, only they have a higher output.

 

They are most certainly not all "china cheap crap". Quality LEDs are binned not only by total luminous output, but also by power used, wavelength or total spectrum if a "white" LED, CRI, etc. I have never seen any of this data, in a datasheet provided by the manufacturer, for any low-powered Bridgelux or Epistar chip, or any of the others considered "generic". Quality control is a big thing, too. Big difference.

[Nightstar]

I'm waiting on my LEDs and this thread got my attention. I've ordered both varieties so I expect I'll soon find out, but out of curiousity, how would Phillips Luxeon compare to Cree? White vs white RB vs RB. Steve's seems to claim superiority on the part of Luxeon and by a significant margin too...

[jedimasterben]

I'm waiting on my LEDs and this thread got my attention. I've ordered both varieties so I expect I'll soon find out, but out of curiousity, how would Phillips Luxeon compare to Cree? White vs white RB vs RB. Steve's seems to claim superiority on the part of Luxeon and by a significant margin too...

When run at 3w, the neutral white are nearly the same in luminous output, but the royal blue Rebel ES beats the royal blue XT-E by a pretty good margin. 1620mW output vs. ~1325mW, in favor of the Luxeon, over 20%. Add in the fact that they're less expensive and it's a no brainer.

[mpg732]

LEDs driven at a different amperage look identical if driven at a higher amperage, only they have a higher output.

 

They are most certainly not all "china cheap crap". Quality LEDs are binned not only by total luminous output, but also by power used, wavelength or total spectrum if a "white" LED, CRI, etc. I have never seen any of this data, in a datasheet provided by the manufacturer, for any low-powered Bridgelux or Epistar chip, or any of the others considered "generic". Quality control is a big thing, too. Big difference.

Every thing from china, I consider all cheep china crap. LOL :lol: :lol: The manufacture that makes Cree's don't just make Cree's. They use the same machines to make them all. I will have to see if I still have those Emails on this topic. With my Job I deal with a lot of electronic parts, of course most of it comes form China. You would be surprised to find out how one company can make such a wide variety of parts over there.

[jedimasterben]

Every thing from china, I consider all cheep china crap. LOL :lol: :lol: The manufacture that makes Cree's don't just make Cree's. They use the same machines to make them all. I will have to see if I still have those Emails on this topic. With my Job I deal with a lot of electronic parts, of course most of it comes form China. You would be surprised to find out how one company can make such a wide variety of parts over there.

It is, indeed, surprising how many different items can be made in the same factory over there, baby dolls, shoes, and semiconductors all under one roof!

 

 

At any rate, Luxeon LEDs are actually produced in Malaysia, Singapore, and California and Cree chips are produced in Taiwan, so they are not all made by the same place. The only common denominator would be the PCB they are mounted to.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

When run at 3w, the neutral white are nearly the same in luminous output, but the royal blue Rebel ES beats the royal blue XT-E by a pretty good margin. 1620mW output vs. ~1325mW, in favor of the Luxeon, over 20%. Add in the fact that they're less expensive and it's a no brainer.

 

Thats all talk and some smoke and mirrors. Not to knock steve but he makes everything "sound" better.

 

XT-E 1000mA (Q04 version that we carry) with the 25c correction is about 1600mw and the cost is $2.79 currently.

 

If you compare apples to apples, they are about the same. Most people just read the marketing material and dont consider the small details like the fact the rebel are measured at 25c (which is not a real world expectation). The CREE are about 18% more efficient at 25c than 85c but all their documentation considers real world scenarios.

 

Also the 440nm (rebels) versions are cheaper and not the main growth for corals which peak at 455nm. Its a very sharp peak.

[mpg732]

It is, indeed, surprising how many different items can be made in the same factory over there, baby dolls, shoes, and semiconductors all under one roof!

 

 

At any rate, Luxeon LEDs are actually produced in Malaysia, Singapore, and California and Cree chips are produced in Taiwan, so they are not all made by the same place. The only common denominator would be the PCB they are mounted to.

Don't think I ever read up on Luxeon. have you used them? Whats your opinion on them.

 

You sure that Crees come from Taiwan, if that so my China Source are a lying sack of S@#t. Those guys will tell you any thing for a sale.

[jedimasterben]

Don't think I ever read up on Luxeon. have you used them? Whats your opinion on them.

 

You sure that Crees come from Taiwan, if that so my China Source are a lying sack of S@#t. Those guys will tell you any thing for a sale.

They're an alternative to Cree. A bit cheaper, look great. Gonna have some new pics up soon, just put together a pretty wicked array.

 

And I thought they were Taiwan made, but it looks like it is in Shenzen, near Hong Kong. They used to be made in Durham, NC, but they purchased a company called COTCO and are now producing them there.

[mpg732]

Other thing that time will tell is how do some of these LED hold up over time. Guess we will have to see.

 

When I made my first fixture, my brother helped. I'm pretty sure we did not order Crees, but according to the specs, they are really close. We made our own driver boards, and had no issue except when water got spilled on the power supply. Ya smoke..... Every one that has seen the tank says the lights look awesome and all the corals I have tried in the tank seemed to like it. Guess time will tell.....

[jedimasterben]

Other thing that time will tell is how do some of these LED hold up over time. Guess we will have to see.

 

When I made my first fixture, my brother helped. I'm pretty sure we did not order Crees, but according to the specs, they are really close. We made our own driver boards, and had no issue except when water got spilled on the power supply. Ya smoke..... Every one that has seen the tank says the lights look awesome and all the corals I have tried in the tank seemed to like it. Guess time will tell.....

Water has that affect on electronics, I found out nearly the same way!

 

As long as they are kept cool, LEDs will last a very long time, even at high amperages. Keeping them cool is pretty easy, either plate heatsinks or aluminum tube with a fan blowing through it, I can keep ~80w of LEDs a few celsius over room temperature using a plate heatsink and a single 120mm fan that only moves 47 CFM at 12v.

[mpg732]

Water has that affect on electronics, I found out nearly the same way!

 

As long as they are kept cool, LEDs will last a very long time, even at high amperages. Keeping them cool is pretty easy, either plate heatsinks or aluminum tube with a fan blowing through it, I can keep ~80w of LEDs a few celsius over room temperature using a plate heatsink and a single 120mm fan that only moves 47 CFM at 12v.

Ya, I got in a case. I didn't have an aluminum heat sink so I just cut a piece 1/4" thick aluminum plate, mounted the starts to it and have 4 fans on the top. We wanted to try different mounting, so on 1/2 we used a thermal epoxy, and the other half we used good old JB weld. Seems to work about the same. Top plate is just slightly warm. I don't remember what we set the driver chips to, but I know we are just under a 100% power.

[jedimasterben]

Ya, I got in a case. I didn't have an aluminum heat sink so I just cut a piece 1/4" thick aluminum plate, mounted the starts to it and have 4 fans on the top. We wanted to try different mounting, so on 1/2 we used a thermal epoxy, and the other half we used good old JB weld. Seems to work about the same. Top plate is just slightly warm. I don't remember what we set the driver chips to, but I know we are just under a 100% power.

I used thermal adhesive (cheap generic gunk) on my first build, JB weld on the second go-round, and now a much better thermal adhesive, and they all perform just the same. Amazing, actually.

[mpg732]

I used thermal adhesive (cheap generic gunk) on my first build, JB weld on the second go-round, and now a much better thermal adhesive, and they all perform just the same. Amazing, actually.

The only thing I don't have is a par meter. I would really like one to compare mine to some others on the market.

[jedimasterben]

The only thing I don't have is a par meter. I would really like one to compare mine to some others on the market.

PAR meters don't measure blue spectrum as well as everyone would like, so poses a problem for LED arrays that contain lots of blues.

 

 

Makes measuring the PAR from violet LEDs very very hard.

[mpg732]

That's one thing I never understand. Why does every one like to add so many more blue's then white. I understand it makes the color pops. But I just don't like that. I like my white sand to look like its white sand not a blue tinted sand. LOL. I hate going to FRAG swaps were every one is over powering the blue to make the color pops.

[jedimasterben]

That's one thing I never understand. Why does every one like to add so many more blue's then white. I understand it makes the color pops. But I just don't like that. I like my white sand to look like its white sand not a blue tinted sand. LOL. I hate going to FRAG swaps were every one is over powering the blue to make the color pops.

People farrrrrrr overdo it. The trend now is to use warmer whites, 5000k or lower, whereas in the past, cool white was most often used, and is less yellow, needing less blue to add in the blue coloration. Cool white is best in a 1:1 or 2:3 ratio, neutral white being best in a 1:2 ratio, this keeps a nice 14,000K final color, not too blue, not too white, with a great amount of coloration and pop.

[welight]

Don't think I ever read up on Luxeon. have you used them? Whats your opinion on them.

 

You sure that Crees come from Taiwan, if that so my China Source are a lying sack of S@#t. Those guys will tell you any thing for a sale.

 

Made where is a piece of long string

Cree make die in Durham, and backend package in China and test in malaysia, most quality led businesses have similar models. The more labour intensive the process + the lower the labour cost required= the cheapest location assembled

 

 

Thats all talk and some smoke and mirrors. Not to knock steve but he makes everything "sound" better.

 

XT-E 1000mA (Q04 version that we carry) with the 25c correction is about 1600mw and the cost is $2.79 currently.

 

If you compare apples to apples, they are about the same. Most people just read the marketing material and dont consider the small details like the fact the rebel are measured at 25c (which is not a real world expectation). The CREE are about 18% more efficient at 25c than 85c but all their documentation considers real world scenarios.

 

Also the 440nm (rebels) versions are cheaper and not the main growth for corals which peak at 455nm. Its a very sharp peak.

 

Something Milad did not mention was the New XTE on the SIC3 platform is rock hard. I have tested a single star up to 8 volts and could not kill it, it is a truly cool product