40 Breeder Layout

[Wizzy]

Here's what I want it to look like-

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Is something about the layout unclear?

 

I am new to plumbing and need your advice.

 

Also, I am getting the 75 gallon version of this stand- http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...cfm?pcatid=9883

 

I am worried, because there are only 4 contact points.

 

Would I need to place a piece of wood below the stand to more evenly distribute the weight?

 

Thanks- Wizzy

[Wizzy]

Bump

[Wizzy]

Bump

[Wizzy]

Bump

[Singlefin]

Your display drains into the Seagrass tank then into the sump? Are you putting baffles in the sump? How big is your Rodi tank? I lose about 1g a day in evaporation.

[castiel]

+1 - maybe you should explain the system a bit.

 

Are you using an ATO, or just manually draining the RO to top up?

Are you planning a skimmer?

If the Seagrass tank water level is lower than the display tank, wouldn't it just overflow?

Why two drains from the Seagrass tank?

What is your return rated for, or what turnover are you looking for? I'd have thought a strong flow-through would risk displacing the sand and seagrass.

 

As for the stand, really depends on the surface it is being placed on and any risk of 'give' - ie on a wooden floor you might want to put something under to displace a bit better (maybe just a wider square of wood under each foot would suffice though).

[MlDukes]

I like the side tank, could also be used as a frag tank. One thing i would change right off, I would do one drain in the display directly to sump and 1 drain in the sea grass tank. this way you can control the amount of flow passing through the sea grass tank.

[reefone]

your plumbing layout looks good.

 

what size is your first sea grass tank ? i can tell you any of the small tanks 20g and under are thin glass and can break when drilling. i did a 20g and broke one before i got it right and ive drilled tons of holes in glass. so just be careful. you will want to keep the two drains from this tank incase ones gets clogged. you might want to fashon an eggcrate strainer to keep the sea grass from getting too close to the drains.

 

in your tank under the stand you need to have some baffles for the return section. or the water level in the whole tank will drop instead of just the return section. also as mentioned to keep sand and stuff out of the return pump.

 

for the drain from the dt to the seagrass you should use a glass holes overflow or something of the like. and you may want one from the sea grass tank to the sump. just usingopen bulkheads can get loud.

 

also remember that when u lose power both tanks will back syphen so make sure you account for that in the sump.

 

castiel- no the seagrass tank will not overflow. as the water level in the seagrass tank reaches the overflow it will drain to the sump.

[castiel]

castiel- no the seagrass tank will not overflow. as the water level in the seagrass tank reaches the overflow it will drain to the sump.

You're right, it is the sump that would overflow, right? (depending on water level of course).

 

But wouldn't the Display and Seagrass water levels end up the same with this layout? I don't see how one water level can be above the other.

[reefone]

nothing should over flow if its set up right. ive got a 240g that drains into a 20g that drains into a 50b.it doesnt over flow when power is lost.

 

op's set up has one return line from the sump to the dt no other return lines.just drains.the water is pumped up from the sump to the dt. the water flows out of the dt drain into the sea grass tank then drains to the sump. the water height in the sump is set by the height of the baffles. but if op keeps his design the water level is set by how much water he fills into the sump.

 

midukes bring up another good set up. water pumped up from the sump into each tank and each tank drains into the sump. each tank having a return line and drain.

[Wizzy]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

The picture in the original post is my first attempt.

 

An alternative design I just created with your input is posted below.

 

-----

 

Q/A

 

Size of RODI Tank?- Unknown as of yet, but will hold a minimum of 5 gallons.

 

How does the ATO work?- The RODI container will be completely air tight. The only way out is through the tube I placed in the side. This tube is submerged just under the water's surface- creating a vacuum. When the water level falls below the tube and lets air in the RODI container will let water into the sump. I like this design, because it is inexpensive and has no moving parts that can fail. Also, it requires no electricity. I am still deciding what container to use, because I need an airtight lid that can come off and on. I may try and make a lid for a normal glass tank as well.

 

Skimmer?- I plan not to use one at first, but want the option to add one later down the road if necessary. I would like suggestions on how to do this and not take up valuable refugium space.

 

Multiple Drains from Display Tanks?- I am not sure whether two drains are necessary, but have read that another drain will act as a back-up in case one gets clogged. I would like input on the quietest and safest setup as this will be a bedroom tank.

 

Return?- I have not chosen a return yet, because the plumbing layout is not decided on. As far as seagrass goes, I have been told that strong flow is good for keeping the seagrass clean and robust. Having kept FW plants however, I am sure that too much flow right after planting would cause them to be blown from the substrate.

 

Stand?- The stand will be going on the second story of my house. For this reason I am trying to keep the total system volume 100 gallons or less. The flooring is carpet and the system will be up against a wall that divides two adjacent rooms. I don't know whether this is a load-bearing wall. I would much rather get a stand that is completely flat against the floor- but so far the metal one I linked above is the only one I have found that will hold two 40 gallon breeders. Suggestions on alternative stands would be greatly appreciated.

 

Separate Drains?- I am not sure which is better- a separate drain and return for each aquarium or for the main DT to overflow into the smaller aquarium and then into the sump. Input on this topic would be appreciated.

 

Side Tank?- I love small, nano-sized aquariums. However, I want the stability that comes with larger tanks. So, by plumbing in the side tank I will hopefully have a fun nano to experiment with without all of the extra maintenance. Ideas I have are for it are seagrass, ricordea-only, anemones, breeding area for fish, etc.

 

Small Tanks Hard to Drill?- I was not aware of this and since this will be my first time drilling an aquarium I would appreciate any tips/tricks to make the process easier.

 

Glass-Holes Overflow/Internal Overflow Box?- Do these really silence the drains? If so, I think I will need to implement them, since this will be in my bedroom. I was thinking of making my own out of acrylic, but would appreciate advice on this subject.

 

Sump Water Level?- How do I determine what water level to set the sump at?

 

Thanks- Wizzy

[flampton]

If your seagrass tank is a standard 10 gallon then the dimensions are ~20 x 10 x 12. For success with seagrass it is argued (Calfo: http://www.reefland.com/articles/rho/beaut...arine-aquarium) that you should keep a 6 in bed minimum. So that would leave little room for growth. There is a tank size that you might need to special order but it would be a much better fit and that is what is called a 20XH. Dimensions of 20 x 10 x 24. Then you can layer some fine sand and some reef mud etc to make a really cool display. Much better for seagrass IMO.

[Wizzy]

If your seagrass tank is a standard 10 gallon then the dimensions are ~20 x 10 x 12. For success with seagrass it is argued (Calfo: http://www.reefland.com/articles/rho/beaut...arine-aquarium) that you should keep a 6 in bed minimum. So that would leave little room for growth. There is a tank size that you might need to special order but it would be a much better fit and that is what is called a 20XH. Dimensions of 20 x 10 x 24. Then you can layer some fine sand and some reef mud etc to make a really cool display. Much better for seagrass IMO.

 

The tank actually won't be a standard 10.

 

I only have 12 inches lengthwise and 18 inches deep max.

 

The tank will most likely be smaller than 10 gallons.

 

I may set up a seagrass tank separately and use the side tank for something else.

 

Thanks for the info

[Reeftech]

Wheres the skimmer going.LOL.

[Wizzy]

Wheres the skimmer going.LOL.

 

This is from the Q/A section-

 

 

Skimmer?- I plan not to use one at first, but want the option to add one later down the road if necessary. I would like suggestions on how to do this and not take up valuable refugium space.

[MlDukes]

If i were doing this i would use your 2nd rendering.

 

A few things id like to add.

 

Small tank = thin glass. They are much harder to drill. I recently plumbed a 10g tank into my system for a stand alone refugium. Took it to my local glass shop and even the pros busted the glass 1st try. They replaced the pane with a slightly thicker piece and were able to drill it fine.

 

Determining the water level in your sump is kinda tricky... This all depends how much water will back siphon in the event of a power failure. best i can do is give an example, regretably I use a overflow box on my 55g. My sump operates at about 2/3 full. when I kill the return pump there is a 14"x10" section of my sump that rises approx 3". But... thats gonna be different with every tank.

 

That ATO setup sounds sketchy... IMO there are several better options

[reefone]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

The picture in the original post is my first attempt.

 

An alternative design I just created with your input is posted below.

 

-----

 

Q/A

 

Size of RODI Tank?- Unknown as of yet, but will hold a minimum of 5 gallons.

 

How does the ATO work?- The RODI container will be completely air tight. The only way out is through the tube I placed in the side. This tube is submerged just under the water's surface- creating a vacuum. When the water level falls below the tube and lets air in the RODI container will let water into the sump. I like this design, because it is inexpensive and has no moving parts that can fail. Also, it requires no electricity. I am still deciding what container to use, because I need an airtight lid that can come off and on. I may try and make a lid for a normal glass tank as well.

 

Skimmer?- I plan not to use one at first, but want the option to add one later down the road if necessary. I would like suggestions on how to do this and not take up valuable refugium space.

 

Multiple Drains from Display Tanks?- I am not sure whether two drains are necessary, but have read that another drain will act as a back-up in case one gets clogged. I would like input on the quietest and safest setup as this will be a bedroom tank.

 

Return?- I have not chosen a return yet, because the plumbing layout is not decided on. As far as seagrass goes, I have been told that strong flow is good for keeping the seagrass clean and robust. Having kept FW plants however, I am sure that too much flow right after planting would cause them to be blown from the substrate.

 

Stand?- The stand will be going on the second story of my house. For this reason I am trying to keep the total system volume 100 gallons or less. The flooring is carpet and the system will be up against a wall that divides two adjacent rooms. I don't know whether this is a load-bearing wall. I would much rather get a stand that is completely flat against the floor- but so far the metal one I linked above is the only one I have found that will hold two 40 gallon breeders. Suggestions on alternative stands would be greatly appreciated.

 

Separate Drains?- I am not sure which is better- a separate drain and return for each aquarium or for the main DT to overflow into the smaller aquarium and then into the sump. Input on this topic would be appreciated.

 

Side Tank?- I love small, nano-sized aquariums. However, I want the stability that comes with larger tanks. So, by plumbing in the side tank I will hopefully have a fun nano to experiment with without all of the extra maintenance. Ideas I have are for it are seagrass, ricordea-only, anemones, breeding area for fish, etc.

 

Small Tanks Hard to Drill?- I was not aware of this and since this will be my first time drilling an aquarium I would appreciate any tips/tricks to make the process easier.

 

Glass-Holes Overflow/Internal Overflow Box?- Do these really silence the drains? If so, I think I will need to implement them, since this will be in my bedroom. I was thinking of making my own out of acrylic, but would appreciate advice on this subject.

 

Sump Water Level?- How do I determine what water level to set the sump at?

 

Thanks- Wizzy

 

for your ato container your better off getting a 5g tank and drilling it at the bottom for a bulkhead. then get a float valve for your sump. which would need to be drilled also at the point you want the water level at.

 

if you want to add a skimmer down the road you will need to baffle off a section of the sump. its tricky not knowing what skimmer you are using so you dont know how big to make the chamber.

 

either way you go for drains and return the glass holes will make life easier then trying to build your own.

 

each tank will drain to the bottom lip of the overflow and when the tanks running the water will be about 1/2" above the lip. so take the l x w x 1" for each tank and figure out the gallons of each.google tank calculator. once you have those numbers add them and that will be your back syphen when power is lost. plus a few gallons. then figure out how many gallons l x w x1" of the sump tank to figure how low the water should be from the top when running.

 

to adjust the height of the water level in the sump the baffles determine that. the way you have it set up you can add water until you are happy with it. depending on how much water you add or dont add we set the height since you have no baffles. once you set the height mark it cause that is where it will need to stay for topping off.

[Wizzy]

If i were doing this i would use your 2nd rendering.

 

A few things id like to add.

 

Small tank = thin glass. They are much harder to drill. I recently plumbed a 10g tank into my system for a stand alone refugium. Took it to my local glass shop and even the pros busted the glass 1st try. They replaced the pane with a slightly thicker piece and were able to drill it fine.

 

Determining the water level in your sump is kinda tricky... This all depends how much water will back siphon in the event of a power failure. best i can do is give an example, regretably I use a overflow box on my 55g. My sump operates at about 2/3 full. when I kill the return pump there is a 14"x10" section of my sump that rises approx 3". But... thats gonna be different with every tank.

 

That ATO setup sounds sketchy... IMO there are several better options

 

Thank you very much for the input.

 

My only question would be what your concerns are with the ATO?

 

for your ato container your better off getting a 5g tank and drilling it at the bottom for a bulkhead. then get a float valve for your sump. which would need to be drilled also at the point you want the water level at.

 

if you want to add a skimmer down the road you will need to baffle off a section of the sump. its tricky not knowing what skimmer you are using so you dont know how big to make the chamber.

 

either way you go for drains and return the glass holes will make life easier then trying to build your own.

 

each tank will drain to the bottom lip of the overflow and when the tanks running the water will be about 1/2" above the lip. so take the l x w x 1" for each tank and figure out the gallons of each.google tank calculator. once you have those numbers add them and that will be your back syphen when power is lost. plus a few gallons. then figure out how many gallons l x w x1" of the sump tank to figure how low the water should be from the top when running.

 

to adjust the height of the water level in the sump the baffles determine that. the way you have it set up you can add water until you are happy with it. depending on how much water you add or dont add we set the height since you have no baffles. once you set the height mark it cause that is where it will need to stay for topping off.

 

So, on the ATO you suggest I drill the bottom. I'm just confused on what the float valve is for?

 

If I do get a skimmer I think I want to try the SCA-301 from eBay.

 

Thanks for helping with the power loss situation.

 

I will find an online calculator to use.

[Wizzy]

Bump

[reefone]

since your fresh water tank is going to sit higher then the sump. you can set up a gravity feed ato using a float valve in the sump set at the water level of the return chamber when its running. when the water level drops in the return sectiondrops the float valve lets fresh water in. you will have to drill the sump at the water level and the top off tank near the bottom. heres a crappy pic i made in paint.

 

its a better way then the one you want to use. its pretty cheap to set up also. or you could just get a ato unit and be done with it.

 

ive been using this on for about 4 yrs now with out problems. i clean the floats off about every 6months or so.

http://autotopoff.com/products/DS1/

[Wizzy]

since your fresh water tank is going to sit higher then the sump. you can set up a gravity feed ato using a float valve in the sump set at the water level of the return chamber when its running. when the water level drops in the return sectiondrops the float valve lets fresh water in. you will have to drill the sump at the water level and the top off tank near the bottom. heres a crappy pic i made in paint.

 

its a better way then the one you want to use. its pretty cheap to set up also. or you could just get a ato unit and be done with it.

 

ive been using this on for about 4 yrs now with out problems. i clean the floats off about every 6months or so.

http://autotopoff.com/products/DS1/

 

Thank you, but could you explain why it is better than what I want to do?

 

My worry with ATO's is that most of them use moving parts.

 

Even something like a Tunze or Spectrapure unit requires electricity and you never know if your unit will malfunction (anythings possible).

 

Unless someone can tell me why it won't work- my idea is inexpensive, doesn't use electricity, and has no moving parts other than a gate valve which I can manually operate.

 

Everyone seems opposed to it, but no one has actually stated/explained why it is "bad".

 

Nonetheless, thank you and everyone else for helping with my build.

 

The criticism is what will make my system more successful.

 

Thanks- Wizzy

[reefone]

i tried it before and it didnt really work all that well. but if you want to try it then go for it.

 

if you keep the top off tank to the size of the back syphen space in the sump for when u lose power. then at least it wont over flow the tank. you can also design the sump to hold more back flow then needed.

[Wizzy]

i tried it before and it didnt really work all that well. but if you want to try it then go for it.

 

if you keep the top off tank to the size of the back syphen space in the sump for when u lose power. then at least it wont over flow the tank. you can also design the sump to hold more back flow then needed.

 

Why would my Top Off Tank fill the sump during a power outage?

 

The only way the Top Off Tank releases water is when the water level DROPS.

 

During a Power Outage, the sump would fill with water and maintain the vacuum on the Top Off Tank.