Exciting! 20 Long Kreisel

[Wizzy]

EDIT-

 

I want to get this set-up in the near future and in order to do that I need your help!

 

There must be someone here on NR that utilizes a Kreisel for breeding?

 

Here's my latest layout for the system... please comment.

 

 

-Wizzy

 

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My original plan was to include a Kriesel in a larger reef system.

 

However, I am afraid that will lead to hydroids and other harmful contaminants making their way to the fry.

 

So, my new plan is to plumb a 20 Long Kriesel into a 20'ish gallon tank which will have dividing baffles, a refugium section with Chaeto, and a return pump.

 

I plan to design the Kriesel like this one.

 

Are there better ways to create a Kriesel?

 

Will I still have to worry about hydroids making their way from the refugium and harming the fry?

 

How often would I have to do a WC on the system if I ran a protein skimmer w/multiple daily feedings of live brine shrimp?

 

Would it be better to not run a refugium and just use a protein skimmer/reactors?

 

I know that I will have to feed the fry baby brine shrimp multiple times a day and wanted to know what the best way to make an automatic brine shrimp feeder was?

 

Basically, I want to automate the process of caring for the fry as much as possible and want everyone's input on what works and what doesn't.

 

Thanks- Wizzy

[Wizzy]

I attempted to create a model similar to what I want my Kreisel system to look like.

 

I have a few questions though (in addition to those above).

 

Would having 1 or 2 Out Tubes be better?

 

Would having return tube slanted upwards or straight across be better?

 

What kind of equipment should I employ in a Kreisel?

 

Would GFO/Carbon Reactors and a Skimmer be good?

 

Would GFO/Carbon be necessary?

 

What is the best sump design for an area for equipment and an area for my return pump?

 

 

-Wizzy

[Wizzy]

Bump

 

Is there any more information that I should add to make this clearer?

 

Thanks- Wizzy

[Wizzy]

I want to get this set-up in the near future and in order to do that I need your help!

 

There must be someone here on NR that utilizes a Kreisel for breeding?

 

Here's my latest layout for the system... please comment.

 

 

-Wizzy

[Wizzy]

I posted this on MarineBreeder about a week ago with no response.

 

Any suggestions for a good (active) breeding forum?

 

I try to support NR when I can, but I really want some input on my build.

 

Once again, anything I can add to make this more clear?

 

Thanks- Wizzy

[hooligan_78]

Try Marine Breeders' Initiative. I'm not much help with Kreisels.

[Wizzy]

Try Marine Breeders' Initiative. I'm not much help with Kreisels.

 

Thanks for the link

 

I'm just happy someone posted in my thread lol

 

-Wizzy

[absolon]

There such a specialty item i dont know that many people have any experience with them. You best bet is to find some threads of people who already built on and see what they liked and disliked about there design then come up with some sorta best case using what they learned. I know its not as easy as just having someone pop on and tell you what to do but you will get way more info that way.

 

My guess is that even with good directions you will need to do alot of playing around with flow rates and placement to get things right.

 

What are you trying to breed?

[Wizzy]

There such a specialty item i dont know that many people have any experience with them. You best bet is to find some threads of people who already built on and see what they liked and disliked about there design then come up with some sorta best case using what they learned. I know its not as easy as just having someone pop on and tell you what to do but you will get way more info that way.

 

My guess is that even with good directions you will need to do alot of playing around with flow rates and placement to get things right.

 

What are you trying to breed?

 

Another post!

 

I have done quite a bit of research and haven't found very many threads about Kreisels (thus I made my own).

 

The information I have found has produced the layout I created.

 

I would like people to let me know their own experiences and whether they think a Kreisel is the best design or whether a Round Tub would be better, etc.

 

I also want to know what improvements can be made upon my layout and whether it is a good design.

 

I want to use the kreisel to breed basically anything that requires the larvae to be suspended in the water and is small enough that they require a kreisel.

 

My To-Do list includes Sexy Shrimp, BlueStripe Pipefish, and Mandarin Dragonets.

 

I would also like to breed Bangaii Cardinals and Clownfish, but I am under the impression that they don't require a Kreisel so I would have to set-up a separate system for them.

 

Thanks- Wizzy

[FishEyeAquaculture]

Your setup will work great for pipefish and sexy shrimp. Mandarins, from my experience, do better in an almost stagnant environment. Nice work!

[Wizzy]

Your setup will work great for pipefish and sexy shrimp. Mandarins, from my experience, do better in an almost stagnant environment. Nice work!

 

Thanks I'm gad a professional approves

 

Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions for improvement on my design before I actually build it?

 

Will the flow from my return pump be too much? (I plan on using PVC to angle the return down into the water and towards the mesh. My hope is that most of the flow will go through the mesh and keep away algae while still having enough flow that the Kreisel is circulated)

 

Any designs for a Kreisel where mesh isn't used?

 

Thanks- Wizzy

[FishEyeAquaculture]

I would try to make the kreisel bigger, right now it only appears to be taking up maybe 50% of the tank...why not more. Water flow is a judgement call based on how larvae from different species react, so their is no right answer i can give you on that.

[Wizzy]

I would try to make the kreisel bigger, right now it only appears to be taking up maybe 50% of the tank...why not more. Water flow is a judgement call based on how larvae from different species react, so their is no right answer i can give you on that.

 

What are the benefits/cons of having a bigger Kreisel?

 

I would think that it would allow me to rear more fry, but it would be harder to maintain a good concentration of food for the fry without overfeeding?

 

As far as water flow goes, I was thinking I could T off my return- Both pipes would have a valve that controls the amount of water going into them. One pipe would be like the one above in my diagram (angled towards the mesh and into the Kreisel) and the other would be pointing away from the Kreisel towards the Overflow Box that holds my Drain Pipes.

 

That way I could control the amount of flow the Kreisel gets by adjusting the valves on the pipes.

 

Anyone think that design would work?'

 

Should I try to make a diagram of the pipes or is my explanation easy to understand?

 

Thanks- Wizzy

[bizzarro]

What are you going to be using for the Circular kriesel?

 

Isn't there enough room in the 20G to not even plumb it down?

 

I think you're better of using a wet dry or even a power filter instead of skimmers.

 

Wouldn't you be doing water changes anyway where a skimmer is not going to be useful, plus wouldn't it remove the phyto?

[Wizzy]

What are you going to be using for the Circular kriesel?

 

Isn't there enough room in the 20G to not even plumb it down?

 

I think you're better of using a wet dry or even a power filter instead of skimmers.

 

Wouldn't you be doing water changes anyway where a skimmer is not going to be useful, plus wouldn't it remove the phyto?

 

I plan on using a plastic jug (like the 5 gallon ones you get water in).

 

Sure, if I wanted the project to be a bit more simple I could leave the 20 Long as it is (w/o a sump).

 

However, I have been planning this for a while and am trying to create as close to an automatic and maintenance free system as is possible with the challenge of breeding and without spending large amounts of money on equipment.

 

By adding a 20 High sump I am almost (the sump won't be 100% full) doubling my water volume.

 

I can have larger/more equipment there as well.

 

It also makes the whole setup look a little nicer, since everything is concealed.

 

I didn't even think of using a wet/dry filter or a power filter-- what benefits do they have over a skimmer?

 

Yes, the skimmer would most likely remove the phytoplankton.

 

I view that as a good thing though, because excess food won't rot away.

 

I will be automatically feeding the tank 6 times a day with whatever mixture of food I need, so I don't think that the fry will run out-- I guess it could happen though -- any suggestions for keeping my fry fed or will my automatic feeder keep them happy?

 

Thanks- Wizzy

[bizzarro]

Using a bio filtration is the same reason why you cycle your tank first before introducing more fish.

 

Otherwise later on you'll have a hard time dealing with ammonia and nitrites and if it builds up too much too fast it may end up killing them and that would be too late.

 

I see most one tank designs use low tech sponge filters, power filters, live rock, and wet dry.

 

You'd have more benefit with bio filtration running with it but you may not even need a skimmer running.

[Wizzy]

Using a bio filtration is the same reason why you cycle your tank first before introducing more fish.

 

Otherwise later on you'll have a hard time dealing with ammonia and nitrites and if it builds up too much too fast it may end up killing them and that would be too late.

 

I see most one tank designs use low tech sponge filters, power filters, live rock, and wet dry.

 

You'd have more benefit with bio filtration running with it but you may not even need a skimmer running.

 

Good point.

 

The only issue I have with this system that makes filtration options difficult is that I need to keep it a clean environment for the fry (i.e. no hydroids)

 

If I placed a brand new sponge filter into my brand new Kreisel system and didn't add anything except the food I would be feeding the fry would that be sufficient to cycle the tank?

 

Also, this brings up another point-

 

How do I actually get the fry into the Kreisel area?

 

I am afraid that netting them out of the main tank or placing the pregnant female into the Kreisel would introduce all sorts of horrible things.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks for all the critiques/information everyone- Wizzy

[1.0reef]

What's a Kreisel?

[Wizzy]

What's a Kreisel?

 

A Kreisel is basically a circular aquarium (or in my case a section of an aquarium) that is used for holding delicate animals (i.e. jellyfish, fish larvae, etc). There's no corners to get trapped in or sharp things to hurt themselves on.

 

HTH- Wizzy

[Wizzy]

Bumpittyyyy

[Wizzy]

One of my biggest worries is that I will transfer hydroids, etc when moving pregnant females to the kreisel before they spawn.

 

Thoughts?

[MeepNand]

That kreisel looks pretty small. Why not utilize a whole 20H for the kriesel, and put eveything else in the sump? I will post a diagram...

 

EDIT: Here you go:

[Wizzy]

That kreisel looks pretty small. Why not utilize a whole 20H for the kriesel, and put eveything else in the sump? I will post a diagram...

 

EDIT: Here you go:

 

Your picture isn't working.

 

However, my initial worry with a larger Kreisel would be maintaining a good concentration of food for the fry.

 

Less space means I need to feed less food.

[MeepNand]

Dangsnapit!

Sorry, just edited my photobucket.

Here you go:

 

But that is redundant because of your worries. Still, a kriesel utilizing only a small amount of tank space seems inefficient. Maybe using a 10 gallon would be better.

[Wizzy]

Dangsnapit!

Sorry, just edited my photobucket.

Here you go:

 

But that is redundant because of your worries. Still, a kriesel utilizing only a small amount of tank space seems inefficient. Maybe using a 10 gallon would be better.

 

Thanks for the input and diagram asid