southpaw23 Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Hi all... I'm needing some help with my Devils hand leather....i've had it for about close to 2 months now and it doesn't seem to be doing very well... I don't think it has ever fully oppened the way i had expected it too since i've bought it... I dont know if it has anything to do with my water parameters but here they are anyways Ammonia and Nitrites = 0 Nitrates = around and below 5ppm Calcium = 600 Alk = 9 DkH Ph = 8.1 Sg = 1.023 Temperature = 82-83 The only thing i can think off that seems a little off is my temperature and i was told that they prefer colder waters...but it's difficult to lower my tank temp without a chiller simply coz i come from a pretty humid and hot country....turning the AC on in the middle of the day to curb this is not efficient as i'm not home half the time. Could the temperature be the reason....the coral is actually place in the upper part of the tank and is getting moderate current and lately i've been feeding the tank with DT's once every 2 to 3 days but it doesnt look like it's eating simply coz i've never seen any of it's polyps extended. Input would be much appreciated and if there's anything else i've left out...let me know and i'll try and furnish em at best i can. Thanx again... ps. I have a toadstool leather that has been pretty moody as well and hasn't fully opened...all other corals are doing great with growth etc...looks like i'm missing something that's suppose to keep leathers happy....now just wonderin what that is ??? Link to comment
tinyreef Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 the toadie could just be irritated by the various shrimp and stuff you have in there. if it's still reaching for the light i wouldn't worry. if not, then onto the devil's hand discussion as it may be connected. ime the devil's hand usually more of a nocturnal coral. maybe it's just the species i've always handled. your very yellow one (beautiful btw) has not been one i've come across (if we use coloration as an indicator of species). check on the coral in the night or middle of the off-photoperiod. if it's still shut i would first try wc's and chemical filtration (e.g. carbon, Poly-Filters, Chemipure, etc.). the removal of any such chemical irritants may let it sprout again. again, ime the lobophytums aren't the most lively of leathers anyway tho. they tend to act like the tortoises of that group. i don't think it's the temp aas long as it tops out around where it is now. any higher and i would list it as a possible issue tho. the very high calcium level is curious tho. i've seldom seen it past 500 without dropping out of solution/precipitating. your first reaction may best be water changes over the next few weeks and see if that has any improvements. of course, you may want to double-check your source water change readings as well. hth Link to comment
mineralrock Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 i hate to jack your post southpaw....but does anyone know how to propagate devil's hand? My friend just cut off a branch and rubberbanded it to a rock....doesn't seem like it's doing great Link to comment
tinyreef Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 mineral, have your bud make sure his ca/alk is very good. lobos (and many other 'soft' corals) actually use a lot of ca inside their structures for their skeletons/spicules. these also seem to be especially abundant where they anchor down so this may be an issue on why your friend is having trouble (specifically, if the trouble is that it's not attaching). otherwise, it could be a number of issues related to injury recovery (i.e. propagating). hth Link to comment
mineralrock Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 hmm well...it's in my tank now...my ca is at 400 and my alk is 8.3 the rubber band was pinching it i noticed so i moved it. I hear you can use superglue to get it to attach though? Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 14, 2004 Author Share Posted April 14, 2004 Hi Tiny Reef, Thanx for the advice...i've gone ahead and done a waterchange this past weekend and still no change in the Leather's behaviour and as for the coral at night....it's still the same...may even have shrunk a little.... The picture you saw of was about a month or two back....it's lookin a lot worse now...especially after i got back from a 3 week vacation and found the lil bugger on the sand bed.....it had fell from the top and landed in the sand...and from there...it looked like it went downhill. I immediately placed it back to the top of the tank where it used to sit but it has never bounced back since. In fact some areas are browning, and it's size is like half of what it originally was. It's away from any other coral so i doubt it's being affected or stung by others.....and from observation, it's not being disturbed by any inverts or fishes. As far as chemical irritants...that could possibly be an issue coz the two corals that aren't lookin good in my tank have been the two leathers....everything else is doing fine....but i don't have any chemical filtration on me at this point....i used to add Carbon in the initial stages but have stopped for quite sometime....do you think that could be the problem? what kinda chemicals could be causing this reaction from my leathers but not to my other corals? I'll go ahead and get me some good active carbon in the next couple of days and see if that would help any...i sure hope so... Interesting to note about your comment on the devils hand not being the the most lively of leathers Oh by the way...i think i may have been mistaken with the temp....it has been fluctuating from 81.5 to 83.3 during the course of the day....could that be a factor as well? As for my Ca level....i'm as befuddled as you are....i've done the test twice and i keep getting above 550-600...and mind you this was before my water change...i'll go test again and see what i get. And don't worry about the hijack Mineralrock....the answer to your question is pretty useful info for me too... Link to comment
tinyreef Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Originally posted by southpaw23 ...especially after i got back from a 3 week vacation and found the lil bugger on the sand bed.....it had fell from the top and landed in the sand...and from there...it looked like it went downhill. that 3-week span could be a prob if the coral hit the sandbed the day after you left, for instance. light shock, trauma, and so on could be issues as well. ...everything else is doing fine....but i don't have any chemical filtration on me at this point....i used to add Carbon in the initial stages but have stopped for quite sometime....do you think that could be the problem? what kinda chemicals could be causing this reaction from my leathers but not to my other corals? i always prefer using chemical filtration. it's a constant chemical war zone in our tanks, especially our little tanks. skimmers don't always pull out the chemicals we hope (per tyree). i believe this as well and supplement with ab/adsorbers. many chemicals are not yet identified and still being researched (e.g. pharmaceutical industry) but their results can be seen on the reefs as each colony battles for space with its neighbors. it's natural that we can't detect some of these chemicals but we can sometimes see the results from observing other livestock affected (targeted?). ...it has been fluctuating from 81.5 to 83.3 during the course of the day....could that be a factor as well? i don't think that a big difference but if it fluctuates a lot overnite, that would be a concern and could exactly explain your coral's behaviour. As for my Ca level....i'm as befuddled as you are....i've done the test twice and i keep getting above 550-600... i dunno. that still sounds way high to me. i think it may be one of the other issues above affecting your coral but the ca level may point to something else (water source, pH error reading, etc.). hth Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 15, 2004 Author Share Posted April 15, 2004 So you know tinyreef, i'm really appreciating all ur feedback and advice you've given me thus far.. I'm guessing that the fall could be the main cause of the leathers condition at this point in time....any chance of the coral recovering tho? coz it's been a month since the incident and still no signs of recovery.....i'll keep my fingers crossed and keep up my water quality i suppose. As for the chemical ad/absorbers....would you mind recommending me a few i could look into....u bring up very valid points with regards to the various chemical warfare taking place in the tank that's not usually detected by our regular testings.....so what would be a good buffer to add? I hear some ppl run carbon 24/7 while others on a periodic basis....i don't run phosguard or whatchamacalit......suggestions would be great I've been told that some leathers do better in colder temperatures......and i'm not sure if 83 would be a little on the high end for these corals....i understand that RBTA's require cooler water temperatures than what my tank can provide but would that apply to certain leathers as well?.....As for the temp flux...not to worry as there isn't a drastic temp drop when lights go out so i'm not too worried....my temp is fairly stable only fluctuating at max about 2.5F...but mostly around 1.5F I'll have to do further testing and observation on my Ca levels....maybe read up on the correlation between Ca, Alk and Ph.....but thanx for ur input on that matter as well.... That about wraps it up for me for now.....thanx again.... Link to comment
tinyreef Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by southpaw23 So you know tinyreef, i'm really appreciating all ur feedback and advice you've given me thus far... you're welcome! ...any chance of the coral recovering tho? coz it's been a month since the incident and still no signs of recovery... i think so, i've had corals close up for a month or even two and rebound. i currently have one that's been sick on or off for over a year. it had been closed for about two months until recently (a little scrubbing and moving and it's sprouting again). however, remove them if they start to rot or cut out rotting parts asap. As for the chemical ad/absorbers....would you mind recommending me a few i could look into [...] I hear some ppl run carbon 24/7 while others on a periodic basis....i don't run phosguard or whatchamacalit... i run carbon 24/7 altho i don't replace it as often as i should. carbon is very good. i run Poly-Filters 24/7 and maintain them religiously. i've heard chemipure is very good but i don't have any exp. i don't particularly care for the phosphate adsorbers out there other than Poly-Filters (also a phos filter). the other ion binding methods introduce other factors into the situation imo. I've been told that some leathers do better in colder temperatures......and i'm not sure if 83 would be a little on the high end for these corals....i understand that RBTA's require cooler water temperatures than what my tank can provide but would that apply to certain leathers as well?... i'm sorry, i don't really know what else is in your tank but varying temp needs will constrain your livestock selection. you're right that 'it depends' upon the specific species we're talking about. some leathers thrive in higher temps while others thrive in lower temps. where they are located/dominate in nature is a good guide to how we should keep them in our tanks. hth Link to comment
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