Cycle question

[Satchmo]

Howdy all.  My tank's been up and running for a whopping 3 days, and as of yet, I've detected no ammonia, no nitrites, and 0.5 nitrates.  Where's the cycle??  When I bought my rock, I was told it was fully cured and that I may not even see a cycle.  I was also told that in a tank this small (10g), any cycle that occurs will be a short one.  

 

So today, after work, I go back to the same LFS to poke around.  I told a worker (different from the guy I bought the LR from) about my levels and that I figured a cycle wasn't to be.  He told me this was "scientifically impossible", and that the cycle just hasn't triggered yet.  Well... who is right?  I've got 20 years in the world of FW, and when ammonia and nitrite are zero, the cycle's over.  Period.  End of discussion.  

 

The LR was out of the water for all of 20 minutes during the ride home and immediately went in my tank.  I figure if after three days, I haven't had any die off, then I won't.  Am I off here somehow?  Don't get me wrong, I'm in no rush to start plopping in animals.  My original plan was to wait out the cycle, let a good coating of microalgae take hold, then add some cleaner-fellas.  I'm just curious because I'm being told two seemingly contradicting things here.

 

Another point for which I need clarification...  if indeed the cycle is done, can I leave it like this without inhabitants?  Won't the nitrifying bacteria on the rock start to die w/o a source of ammonia?   This is some more carry-over knowledge from freshwater, and I figured if I still had zero ammonia and trites after 1 week, I would add a small, hardy fish to keep the bio-filter intact.  

 

d*mn this post is long.  Any help?

[jdiver]

If the lr is truly fully cured, then it is possible that you won't see much, if any, cycle. The cycle is started by ammonia, which is produced by things dying, so if nothing dies, then logic would dictate there won't be ammonia or a cycle. Do you see little critters in your tank like copepods, amphipods, worms, etc? What does your lr smell like? (It should smell earthy, not rotten.)

 

When I set my tank up a little over a month ago, I had a complete cycle with large ammonia and nitrite spikes. As it turned out, the lr I bought had just come into the lfs where I bought it from and as a result had likely been in transit for quite some time with lots of die-off. (It smelled terrible, which I didn't realize until I got it out of the bag at my house.) On the other hand, on Tuesday I set up a nano for my dad with lr that I believe was fully cured, and as of today there have been no spikes or ammonia or nitrite readings. If I were you, then I would give it another week, test twice in that timeframe, and if your levels are all good, then add a clean-up crew.

[Smokey Joe]

In any practical sense the guy is full of crap.

 

Wait a few more days and if you're still measuring zero go ahead and add things slowly.

[MKramer]

If rock is well-cured, and there are no ammonia-producing inhabitants, it is entirely scientifically possible for there to be no cycle.

 

If there's no death and no bioload, then there's little/no ammonia.  

 

With no bioload, though, whatever bacteria is already present in the rock, will slowly decrease.  So if you let the tank sit too long without inhabitants, the worse a spike you'll get when oyu finally add some.

 

I would either add a piece of uncured liverock or give it another dayor two, then add a single fish.  Unfortunately, the bacteria colony on fully cured rock isn't always very populous, and odds are the first thing you add will cause an ammonia (then nitrite, then nitrate) spike.  So I would go slowly at first.

 

On the other hand, if you add a piece of uncured rock, you can trigger a temporary (but massive) increase in the bacteria population.  Once that cycling is complete, you can put a higher bioload in immediately, without triggering another spike.

[Pseudo Gregoree]

i had this happenn on my 75 gal tank (i know not a nano, but technically the same), and i added a piece of dead grocery shrimp and within 6 hours i had ammonia.  within one week the shrimp was completely gone and within another week the tank had been cycled.

 

-g

[Satchmo]

Thanks to all for the quick replies.  

 

jdiver:  yeah, the rock smelled earthy, not putrid.  I have more than my share of pods and worms in there.  There's also a small blue-leg hermit and a limpet snail (hitchikers) who are currently buzzing back and forth across my rock.  They all seem fine.  

 

I like the idea of adding a piece of uncured LR to kick the cycle in the ass, but I'd rather not kill the life that's already in there.  

 

I think I'll give it another day or two, and if everything remains as is, drop in a fish.  But here's the rub:  my girlfriend wants me to put a clown in there.  I pretty much let her have whatever she wants (much easier that way), so I told her OK.  Would this fish survive if his addition kicked off a small spike?   I know I'd be better off with a damsel in this case, but I don't want one.  And I'd rather not be bothered with bringing an unwanted fish home only to have to take him back to the LFS.  Thanks again.

[mattdog]

A tank-raised clown should do fine provided that the ammonia doesn't get over .5 for long periods of time (12-24 hrs).  My two are doing great.

[MKramer]

If you use a small piece of uncured rock, the spike won't be near high enoguh to injury anything that's the least bit hardy, including crabs and snails.

 

But as has been said, as long as the first fish is hardy, like the aforementioned clown, you'll be okay even without the LR.

 

Matthew

[Strife]

One characteristic, next to passion for the hobby, every aquarist should have or obtain, is patience.

Patience, next to understanding the basic water parameters, will be put to the test while cycling a tank. And cycling by all means, not only during the fresh set up of a new tank. An established aquarium can cycle at any time, depending on severe changes of the bioload, filtration failure, or any loss of nitrifying bacteria.

The cycling process starts the aquarium. Since an aquarium is an artificial and fragile ecosystem it requires our “interference” in order to thrive. Our interference starts with providing an “artificial” filtration system. In short, creating an environment as close to nature as possible.

 

i have read many comments and question from hobbyist asking and commenting/metioning about "finished cycled" and "first cycle". and to clear everything...there is no such thing. Once a cycle has started, it will keep going. 0 ammonia, nitrates, nitrites is caused by a balanced cycle.

We all had a science book once and seen how a cycle works.an arrow pointing to another picture,and to another picture, and another...till it all starts all over  again.

well you know what i mean..

even in a glass of water, bacteria can develop in a day or so if left aside. then also causing a cycle.

 

(Edited by Stryf3 at 3:10 am on June 22, 2002)

[Sahin]

Satchmo; I bought my live rock cured as you have.

My LFS said I wont most likely get any readings for ammonia or nitrite.  They were right.

 

I didnt get any readings for Ammonia or Nitrite.

 

The rocks were out of water for about same time as yours, maybe less.  There wasnt any sig. die off in that time to trigger ammonia or nitrite spikes.

 

So if your rocks are cured, then its highly likely you wont get any kind of spikes.  I didnt even get any measureble readings.

 

But, just to be on the safe side and to allow things to settle, just another 5 days or so till you add anything else to the tank.

[HuBu]

there are several reasons for this to happen.

1) nothing died off so theres no ammonia in the tank.

2) the LR has enough bacteria to take care of the ammonia within the tank.

 

thats what i m thinking. but just to be on the safe side. give the tank a period of 1 wk. if all the levels are still at 0, then go ahead and put stuff in.