White spots on fins

[fboye]

I have 2 percs in a 12g Nano-Cube.

Two days ago, I noticed that the smaller one has one small white dot on the tip of his dorsal fin and one on the tip of his tail fin.

 

Ich?

No sure since I had been reading that Ich forms on or around the gill area.

 

I have no QT, so what's the best medication?

Also, I have 8lbs of LR and 12lbs LS, 3 crabs and 2 snails.

 

Tank has been running for one month and eventually, I plan on putting in one small piece of coral.

 

Thanks in advance for the replys.

[slickwilly]

i would try some form af garlic

i usually soak some food in the juice for a while before feeding. it makes the tank stink for a few days but it usually helpsi use minced garlic by the way just spoon out some juice and put in either some flake or frozen food, they both worki have cured 3 cases of white spot with this. best of all it doesnt do any harm to anything else. good luck

[pyrrhus]

you could also try a freshwater dip for 5-10 minutes, the change in osmotic pressure will usually burst the parasites but the dip may need to be repeated several days in a row to be effective. also make sure to watch the fish while doing the dip and put him back in his home at the first sign of trouble. DO NOT use any sort of copper based treatment in your tank as it will kill the inverts and get that QT as soon as possible. If youd like PM me and maybe i can come over and take a look at the tank. also in the future buy all your fish at aquatouch on 32nd st and cactus they do a 10-14 day acclimation on all fish and treat for disease for you, you do pay a little more for the livestock but its worth the trip and the money...pyrrhus

[fboye]

Thanks to both of you. I'll get that QT up and running ASAP.

[birdman204]

Originally posted by fboye

I have 2 percs in a 12g Nano-Cube.  

Two days ago, I noticed that the smaller one has one small white dot on the tip of his dorsal fin and one on the tip of his tail fin.

 

Ich?

No sure since I had been reading that Ich forms on or around the gill area.

 

I have no QT, so what's the best medication?

Ich? Yes.

Around the gill area, yes, but you won't see that part of the infection. The white spots are actually the parasite in an " egg " stage, these fall off after a few days, only to hatch again , and re - infest. The only way I have cured Ich, without killing more fish is by letting it's cycle run through the tank ( at least 60 days with no fish ).

In a QT procedure , these white spots can be seen after they fall off the fish onto a barebottom tank, and subsequently siphoned out.

QT should be done for a MINIMUM of 30 days, no exceptions ( that is, if you are even quarantining ) This will allow plenty of time for most problems to arise and to be handled outside of the display, for a nano, I think A QT of 10 gallons is plenty.

 

For now, I would attempt the Garlic, and hope the fishes immune system can fight it off, If not, the fish may pass, and if it does, DEFINATLEY wait the 60 days before getting another fish. HTH

[pyrrhus]

it may be prudent to wait 60 days for ich to cycle through the tank, however on the advice of a well reputed marine bio (Micheal Janes) i only waited 10-14 days for the crypto to starve without fish, i havent had an outbreak since i did treat the fish with copper power in my QT but that wouldnt have affected the larvae in the main nano tank although residual copper in the fishes tissue may have been responsible for not getting another outbreak...pyrrhus

[birdman204]

Originally posted by pyrrhus

it may be prudent to wait 60 days for ich to cycle through the tank

 

Naw, Nothing is prudent considering the health of the animals. Notice I also said if this fish passes, Then waiting is a pretty darn good option. I'd rather wait and move into a nice clean new house, than to move into a rat infested eviction property and wait for it to be rebuilt.

Treating ich is an easy thing to do when done right. The life cycle of the parasite is around 45 days. Watch for new outbreaks in that time. Treat accordingly. Catching a fish in a well stocked reef , that is a different story

[pyrrhus]

i added my fish back into my tank after waiting 10 days on 2/8/04 havent seen a bit of ich on them since. Bird, it seems we may have to agree to disagree on this point, i know my way works and im sure that you know your way works, thats the way many of the things are in this hobby. there are 10000 ways to accomplish the same thing all of them work.

[birdman204]

Pyrrhus, I answered your PM. Don't think I am hatin' on you.

 

Here are a few paragraphs.....

 

Fish can develop immunity to Cryptocaryon irritans that can last for up to six months (Colorni, 1987 and Colorni & Burgess, 1997). It is this natural immunity that makes evaluating the effectiveness of various treatment options so difficult. How can someone ever be certain that what they dosed to their tank or fed to their fish is what caused the cure they observed? The answer is simple, they can't. ~ taken from part 2 of the same article - http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-...ature/index.htm

 

 

The lifecycle of the parasite is interesting and important to understand when evaluating a treatment. The stage where the parasite is attached to a fish is called a trophont. The trophont will spend three to seven days (depending on temperature) feeding on the fish. After that, the trophont leaves the fish and becomes what is called a protomont. This protomont travels to the substrate and begins to crawl around for usually two to eight hours, but it could go for as long as eighteen hours after it leaves it's fish host. Once the protomont attaches to a surface, it begins to encyst and is now called a tomont. Division inside the cyst into hundreds of daughter parasites, called tomites, begins shortly thereafter. This noninfectious stage can last anywhere from three to twenty-eight days. During this extended period, the parasite cyst is lying in wait for a host. After this period, the tomites hatch and begin swimming around, looking for a fish host. At this point, they are called theronts, and they must find a host within twenty-four hours or die. They prefer to seek out the skin and gill tissue, then transform into trophonts, and begin the process all over again (Colorni & Burgess, 1997). ~taken from reefkeeping magazine... - http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.htm

 

 

 

I say 60 days, because people can lose track of timelines. Up to 7 days in trophont stage , up to 18 hours as a protomont , tomont and tomite production stages can last up to 28 days. After hatching they must find a host with a day. Total it up , it is 38 days... If I tell people 38 days, they will see it as 1 month, and possibly re-infect a new fish, and then come back and blame me.

 

Just for everyones info.

[pyrrhus]

well after speaking with Fred, im just about 100% sure that the clownfish has lymphocystitis. the good news is it isnt usually fatal, and can be waited out. the bad news is there is no treatment and usually is indicative of poor water quality. i suspect nitrate as the test kit he has doesnt have a test for nitrate, luckily doing a few decent sized water changes should clear up the problem. hey at least it was able to scare someone new to the hobby into getting a QT many of us arent that lucky.

[fboye]

It's April 15th, 2004 and the white spots have disappeared!

There are very small translucent areas where the spots were. Could this be scarring?

Or perhaps the lymphocystitis forgot to pay their taxes and headed off to the post office!

[pyrrhus]

i think it was the taxes:)

[Domino_Tang]

ahhh yes it is a parasite my fish have caught it!

1. water flow is and should be increased as these tend to nest in sand till a certain stage where they will get on your fish

 

starts out as a little white dot then it moves up and then begins to eat your fishie =X it will hatch itself injecting itself into your fish wich then will trans form into a worm and come out of your fish and the stage will start again!

 

copper base medications you should put in a QT tank for NO LESS THEN 1MONTH and 10 DAYS if you put it in they will try there hardest to get to your fish and they will!

 

ps. best of luck!

[pyrrhus]

hey domino, it was lympho, not ich. there is no medication for lympho, the only thing you can do for lympho, which is viral in nature is to improve water quality. i had advised fred (in person) to begin weekly water changes. guess what, it worked.