The Dilemma & Possible Solution - my story with a few questions.

[Chromis]

The Dilemma & Possible Solution - my story with a few questions.

 

After much information gathered and various planned out prospective systems I have decided that I do not have the money to spend on a system at this point.

 

I've thought about going very small (10 gallons or under) to limit costs but have decided against it due to possible heat problems as well as the fact that I like fish and would really like to be able to keep more than one of them.

 

I've thoroughly planned out a 20 gallon long but soon realized that I wouldn't have enough to set it up until after a long time of saving up.

 

Last night I was trying to fall asleep and my thoughts may have stumbled across the two letters that may give me hope....

 

FO

 

That's right, a fish only tank. You probably think I've lost it but hear me out. This won't always be a fish only tank ... it'll just start out that way.

 

So I get a tank, lets say a 29 or 30 gallon with a standard lighting getup of 2 NO tubes. [Point A] I find a little bit of good looking base rock for my rock foundation and add a 3" living sand bed. Then I can add a little more base rock which will put me at about 15-20 lbs of base rock. At this point I'd probably get a fish or two and maybe a shrimp. The tank will look rather ugly at this point but I'll be wetting my appetite at least. As time goes on I'll slowly add live rock one piece at a time until I get to about a combined weight of 25-30 lbs. of live and base rock. At this point I'll save up for the big lighting upgrade. Afterward that I'll top off the rock pile with a few more lbs. of the highest quality live rock I can find. By this point (or soon after it ) I should be ready to fully convert to reef and add my first corals. [Point B]

 

So now is when I ask the questions:

 

1) What do you people think about this plan?

 

2) From what I read a cycle seems to happen when the initial pile of live rock is added. Since I will be adding live rock with fish inhabitants I am concerned this could be a problem ... will this affect me if I add peices slowly?

 

3) Most of the studying I have done was on tanks that use a mass of live rock and live sand to do the filtering. Since I will originally only start out with live sand and base rock should I add a filter and/or skimmer? If I should then what kind and what size (for 30 gallons)?

 

4) If my plan above takes me about 1 year to get from point A to point B (see above) then will the base rock added be considered live rock yet? Keep in mind that the original base rock will be sitting in live sand and therefore will get the exposure to "life" even before any live rock is added.

 

I thank you for your help in advance. Sorry that was so long.

[DaveESPI]

Sounds like U have your head screwd on right. Ill donate some live sand. send me 10.00 to cover shipping.

I like the fact U are honest and can be patient.

 

My recent 40 long tank was 3 months with bare bottom and some live rock with floros over the top to cycle.... Its still not full, its been 6 months. I recently addded VHOs and a little LS. and a few fish and corals. sure slow and steady winns the race... think about it.

 

see the thread in $ u guys spent.

[Chromis]

Originally posted by DaveESPI

Sounds like  U have your head screwd on right.

 

Thank you

 

 

 

Originally posted by DaveESPI

Ill donate some live sand. send me 10.00 to cover shipping.

 

I'll definately take you up on that offer ... if you remember me by the time I'm ready for it.

 

 

 

Originally posted by DaveESPI

see the  thread in $ u guys spent.

 

I did, and it helped me realize I don't have the cashflow.

 

 

 

Thanks for all the help! I'm still interested in what kind of filter I should use, as well as my other questions about the base/live rock.

[Crakeur]

Dave telling you that your head is screwed on tight is frightening. His head is dangling and just about ready to pop off.

 

Your plan is wise. The one thing I would suggest is, when you are buying equipment, make sure that it is upgradeable (lights can be replaced with retros for pc when the money is available). There is nothing worse than buying something that will ahve to be completely replaced in a year because it isn't going to work well with a reef.

 

Oh, and Dave - I was kidding dammit.

[Dave ESPI]

sarchazim..... aint it grand !

 

ps: i knw ur kidding......double dawg damnit.

[highrpm]

I kind of disagree with this plan. After the tank goes through it original cycle, you will have to be very careful about adding more live rock. If the live rock is not cured you will definitely have a spike in your tank levels. If your LFS carries live rock, and will hold on to it/ cure it for you, then it shouldn't be a big deal.

[Chromis]

Thanks for the great info all!

 

Keep it coming.

[Metznreef]

sounds good. just make sure that when you star adding live rock you don't add large amounts at a time because it could cause an ammonia spike. good luck!

[Chromis]

I'll probably budget myself 1 or 2 rocks a month

 

Could someone please answer my question about filtration???

 

Obviously I won't have live rock yet so will a HOB or Canister work? Any brand/model suggestions? Should I use a skimmer until the live rock and live sand is fully loaded?

[Adam Jones]

Chromis -

 

I myself have gone through what you are experiencing, and a few evolutions besides.

 

The first year I was in reefkeeping I bought things foolishly. I spent close to $1,200 (while still a college student!) on equipment for a pair of small tanks --> and have about $400 of that equipment left. The rest I have sold, thrown or given away. I had a shiny new credit card (my first).

 

The second year I was in reefkeeping I bought some really good books, a decent skimmer, and slowed down. This was my best year. The animals I bought lived and lived and lived. I started paying off my credit card, but then I got two more tanks.

 

The third year I was in reefkeeping I moved four times, tore down my four aquariums, sold all of my livestock except my rocks, sold/gave away/ threw away all non-essential equipment. Currently I have one tank that is chock full of live rock and little else. I just got offered my first real adult-type job yesterday, so I hope to remedy that situation soon. I'm still paying off my credit card. I need to take care of that, too.

 

Suggestions:

 

For bio filtration sans liverock, AquaClear power filters are great. They are cheap, quiet, reliable, provide decent water circulation, and have lots of internal room for media of your choice. An AquaClear 300 provides about as much circulation as a maxijet 1200 powerhead, provides bio filtration, and gives you a place to keep your heater once you have live rock. Canister filters, in my experience, are expensive, leak, and require more maintenance than hang-on-back style filters. Of course, if you save for enough rock, you can skip filters altogether and focus on water movement instead.

 

Choose your tank wisely. Look at the AGA site for dimensions:

http://www.all-glass.com/ I highly recommend an 18" wide tank for future reef duty, so something like a 30 breeder or 40 breeder would be great. Check the classified section of your newspaper. I tried to sell a 55 gallon aquarium with tank, stand, lights, liverock, livesand for $150 but I live in a small town and no one bought it. Right now the tank is collecting rain water in my backyard.

 

 

You do have the catalogue from

 

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/shop...FSTAB&subref=AC

 

right? This alone can save money on basics.

 

I think the one rock at a time strategy unnecessarily stresses your tank. You could easily kill whatever is in there with one rock. My philosophy is that live rock and live sand beds are the biological and aesthetic backbone of every tank I set up. You could cure each new rock in a 5 gallon bucket for a month, but that takes patience. LFS rock is rarely "full cured". Even when they promise it is. If you need anywhere near 40 pounds of rock, it pays to have it drop shipped to your house/airport ($170 for 44 pounds when I did it last). You can get by with 1/2 pound of rock per gallon if you have a thiving, functioning 3+" deep live sand bed.

 

Use white silicate sand from Home Base mixed with aragonite sand for your sand bed. It will save money and give you a sand bed with the appropriate grain size composition (which is hard to do with all aragonite where I live). You will still need some real live sand, hopefully from a generous hobbyist. Otherwise an activator kit is needed.

 

Consider a species tank for the short term. Mantis shrimp, harlequin shrimp, some eels, or that one special fish can be easy to take care of, and require only affordable lighting, filtration and water movement.

 

You are still going to spend 100s of dollars, no matter what. Just make your bucks count. You are on the right track.

[gobies]

On the live rock....

 

If you try to get dead base rock seeded from only a sand bed, you won't get anywhere near the diversity of life in the rock as you would if you started with at least a little live rock. Most 'pod life does not live in sand, but in rock.

 

You could make your own base rock for less $$ than you can buy it. It takes a while to cure, true, but you will get the sizes & shapes you want. Plus, making the rock looks like fun. There are several threads here and on RC on doing this -- one guy used the long thin bendy balloons as a structure base, then sorta drizzled the sand/cement mix over them. He did one side, let it dry for a day, flipped it, then did the other side. Sorry but I couldn't find the thread, but here's an article: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Han...CementRock.html ...Other hints on making base rock: cure small pieces in the tank of your toilet; use your RO/DI wastewater to cure the larger pieces.

 

In Arizona, you probably have two choices for live rock:

- get a rock at a time and pay $7+ per pound

- order online and pay $4+ per pound plus shipping

 

I would seriously consider making some base rock. Then, as it cures, save up some cash so you can order some good-quality stuff online. Once the base rock is cured, order some of the good live rock and have it shipped "airport to airport" for the best deal on shipping. Use that to seed your base rock.