gpodio Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Hi all, New member here with no experience in reefs so expect many questions from me in the months to follow :-) My first question is choosing a tank, I'm trying to decide between a 15 or 20H. How much will the extra 4 inches in height effect lighting? Any other considerations to keep in mind? Will a single 55/65W CF light suffice to start with? I'm sure I'll add more eventually but I'm trying to keep costs down at the moment and using what I already have. For a single bulb setup, is a 50/50 lamp the best choice? I read a lot of people using HOB filters without media for circulation only. Would using a submergible pump for circulation be the same or is there some other use for the HOB filters? (occasional chemical filtration...) Water changes... please tell me I can use my tap water :-) My tap water has KH 2, NO3 5ppm, PO4 close to 0. Don't really intend on keeping any fish, just corals and cleaners at this stage. I'm hoping to get started in the next couple of weeks once I've done a little more research. I appreciate any suggestions anyone may have. Regards Giancarlo Podio Link to comment
MrConclusion Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 For single bulb setup, 50/50 is the best choice. You should seriously consider a higher wattage fixture. I wouldn't even operate a 10 gallon tank on 55 watts, my weakest 10 gallon has 96 watts of PC and I'm not thrilled with it. Check this light out, it's a good deal: http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp...dproduct=CL1713 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...=1&N=2004&Nty=1 Your tap water will probably work OK, but it's not wonderful. Also, if it contains much in the way of silicates and/or phosphates, you will be battling nuisance algae and diatoms. If this happens, switch to distilled or RO water. The fact that you're not keeping fish is no reason to slack up on the water quality... corals are way more demanding of excellent water than fish. Read this updated excerpt from an old post, it'sll explain why I think it's a bad idea to skimp on startup costs: Be ready to spend some dough even on a simple 15-20 gallon system. I would not want to be without any of the things on this list. You also need to budget for extra gadgets like siphon tubes, algae scrapers, etc.: PC Lighting: $100-$200 2x Circulating Pump or HOB filter: 2x $15-$20 Heater: $15-$25 Live Sand (2x 20 lb. fine treated sand): $55 Live Rock: 25lb x $5-$8 ($125-$200) pH Test Kit: $5 (tetra saltwater pH) KH Test Kit: $10 (tetra KH) Calcium test kit: $10 (Hagen CA) Hydrometer: $10-$15 Small jar of carbon/phosphate absorber: $15 (SeaGel 250 grams) Small nylon bag for SeaGel:$3 (Hagen Aquaclear mini bags) 50 lb. bag of salt mix: $15-$20 2-part CA & KH Additive: $15 (B-Ionic, C-Balance, etc.) Fish: $10-$50 Corals 5 to 10 needed, costing $20-$50 each Bucket for mixing salt water for water changes: $5 (keep clean!) Small powerhead for mixing bucket: $12 (mini jet) Small heater for bucket: $15 (visi-therm 100w) You see how even a small simple tank can add up. You might even be buying a Protein Skimmer. Sorry for the tremendously long post, but maybe it can help you out in some way! GOOD LUCK AND HAVE FUN! Link to comment
phenom5 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 The fact that you're not keeping fish is no reason to slack up on the water quality... corals are way more demanding of excellent water than fish. agreed, actually corals are more demanding on water quality then fish. if it were me, i'd go with a 20gL over both the 15g and the 20gH... Link to comment
phenom5 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 haha :woot: i just said what MrConclusion said... Link to comment
gpodio Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 Thanks guys, I'm not keeping fish to skimp out on water quality, I'm sure this won't be as much work as my current tanks are but my focus is corals rather than fish and I've always been very anal about low fish loads and good water quality, just like my freshwater tanks are all about plants rather than fish.... I guess I'm weird like that :-) Regarding the lighting, I usually get CF kits from AHSupply or other DIY sources. I also have some 100W MH ballasts that I could use, anyone know where I can find appropriate bulbs for these? I've really only seen 4000K bulbs for sale in this wattage. I also have a 250W fixture but it's rather big for such a small tank... I think, right?. Once the bug bites me I'm sure I'll go all out as I do with planted tanks... So what you're saying is that even two 65/55W CFs are considered low to start with in such a tank? If I go with the MH lights, I still have to use the CF or similar for actinic correct? What role does actinic play in a reef tank? The 20 long I hadn't really considered, I did see some of the member's tanks last night including some very nice 20 long setups. Would 2 100W MH bulbs be sufficient for such a tank? I checked in with the folks at "The Hidden Reef" last night near where I live and they sell RO water for .50c a gallon, that sounds like a safer way to go for now. A little premature but I'm obviously going to need to ask about all the additives I need... such as SeaGel which I see in McConclusion's reply, what's that for? I have so many questions.... :-) Thanks for the help Giancarlo Podio Link to comment
Orange Crush Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 2x55/65 watt would be fine over a 20H, and there's not much you couldn't keep with that. Definately go RO. Fish are ok in tap, but not corals. Link to comment
gpodio Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 Originally posted by Orange Crush 2x55/65 watt would be fine over a 20H, and there's not much you couldn't keep with that. That's reassuring... What's the ideal white:actinic ratio? Definately go RO. Fish are ok in tap, but not corals. Will do! Thank you Giancarlo Podio Link to comment
spectre Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Your lighting needs are dependent on what corals you wish to keep. Determine what corals you like and then research thier lighting needs. RO water is a must. RO/DI is even better. The larger the tank, the easier to balance the water chemistry. Don't get carried away on additives. Weekly water changes with a top quality salt and a 2-part calcium additive should be a good start. Research your corals' needs and test water accordlingly. (i.e. xenia need iodine, If you have alot of xenia, it would be wise to test for iodine and make sure your weekly water changes are supplying enough, if not then use a supplement). Hope that helps. Link to comment
Aiptasia Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Yep, your lighting is going to be determined by the type of corals you want to keep. With reef tanks and corals, adding them isn't quite as hodge podge as a FW community tank. Definitely err on stronger light than you think you need. I have two 20g. minis and I use coralife 2x65w. lights (130 watts total) over them, which is adequate for deep to mid water corals (one 10,000k full daylight bulb, one 20,000k actinic). The supplimental actinic light is very beneficial, so go with a 50/50 if you only have one bulb option. If you want to keep SPS corals with almost un-natural neon colors, bright blue T. maxxima clams and other top water reef inverts, go with halides supplimented with actinic light. The sponsors section has some good companies, such as hellolights.com, where you can find specialty bulbs for your DIY projects. 250 watts is actually pretty good over a 20 high for top water specemins, as long as you can control the tank temperature and the evaporation rates. Such lights usually need about 12-18" clearance over the surface of the water and make sure there's a glass barrier to prevent spray or droplets of water from shattering the hot bulb if it's a DIY project. For deep or mid water corals (leathers, most shrooms, LPS corals) you can go with lower light levels, such as the 130 watt fixture i'm using. The ideal actinic/white ratio is 1:1. I'm also a big advocate of using steam distilled or reverse osmosis water. Reef tanks need even purer water than discus tanks (freshie reference for you) to prevent problematic algae problems, so get the purest water you can afford. There are some bare bones TFC units out there that can even thread up to 3/4" garden hose type threading (kent marine) so that you can hook up your RO unit and remove it, to a sink or hose. For a bare bones unit with 5 micron prefilter, carbon prefilter and TFC membrane, you're looking at prices between $80-150. Cheap investment and easier to deal with than hauling jugs of water around (www.drsfostersmith.com & www.thatfishplace.com). I'd equate mastering reef tanks with about the same amount of skill/equipment it takes to master a beautiful planted dutch aquarium. It's as much art as skill. Link to comment
gpodio Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 From what I've seen I'd be quite happy being limited initially to LPS and soft corals. I'm sure as the bug startes to bite I'll be changing ideas and upgrading things. I just don't know enough about corals to have any idea of what I want, but I'll be sure to choose everything based on the tank's capabilities. How does steam distilled water work? Also, if I were to start with 2x65W lights would they be too short for a 20L? I think I've given up on the 15 gallon now and considering the 20H or 20L. In the 20L the lights will be closer to the substrate, which is good, but won't reach all the way to the end of the tank... will it make much of a difference? Took a look at available bulbs from hellolights.com , unfortunately they don't carry any 100W bulbs. Does anyone know where I can get appropriate 100W MH bulbs? Thanks again and sorry for all the questions, if anyone has any plant related questions.... Giancarlo Podio Link to comment
Aiptasia Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Steam distillation is simply heating the water until it evaporates. When water evaporates, the H2O molecules can be collected in a cooling coil or glass coil, giving you 100% pure water droplets. When water evaporates, anything that was in the water is left behind. The insides of a steam distiller look like the guts for a moonshine still, and the principle is the same. Both water and alcohol will evaporate at relatively low temperatures, leaving behind their impurities, and can be cooled and collected in a pure form. 20 Long tanks are 30" long, and the light housing you're looking at is 24" long. You can still use these lights over the tank if they're the coralife ones, as they have a mounting bracket (sold separately) where you can mount them to odd size tanks, or you can buy a glass canopy for the 20 long and place the strip lights right on it. If it were me, i'd just buy a glass canopy for the 20 long and stick the lights dead center over the tank. Keep searching for the bulbs. Somebody makes them in the right color spectrum for reef lights. I'm sure of it, there are even full daylight 70 watt MH bulbs floating around. Don't be afraid to check with hydroponics shops as well. As long as the bulb is a 5,500k, 6,500k or 10,000k daylight bulb, it should be more than adequate if you suppliment with actinic bulbs. I have a plant question.. Why can't I find any hygrophilia polysperma in my area? And why does my LFS sell $2.00 peace lillies as "XL amazon swordplants?" Greedy bastages! ??? Link to comment
gpodio Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 Sounds like an interesting DIY project I have H. P. Rosanervig: http://www.gpodio.com/gallery/scene53.jpg If that's what you're looking for I can send it to you. Regards Giancarlo Podio Link to comment
gpodio Posted March 3, 2004 Author Share Posted March 3, 2004 OK I've been doing a lot of reading and I think I have some more concrete ideas now. I have chosen a 20L with a 10 gallon sump. I like the sump as this will allow me to increase water volume and add a skimmer and other hardware where they won't be visible. I'm armed and dangerous (got the Dremel) and ready to start putting holes in the tank... Now.... do I simply use an elbow piece to establish the water level above the bulkhead? | |~~~~~~ |_| | |__| | | What other methods are popular to maintain the correct water level without draining the tank? Any of them adjustable? Is a pre-filter box necessary or can I use some kind of strainer on the intake tube? Giancarlo Podio Link to comment
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