Boi Wheel Or No Bio Wheel

[lawdoginc]

Well As I am trying to perfect my eclipse 6 nano i have run tinto posts that some have taken the bio-wheels out. what are the pros and cons on this? should I or shouldnt I?

[DaveESPI]

Bio wheels will process ammonia really quickly. This is good in intial stages of a set up. As the tank matures, the biota will handle it. Remove the wheel if the nitrates climb more than 10 ppm in a 3 week cycle and increase frequency of W/C... this has worked well on many nanos Ive set up thus far. If ballanced properly, the biowheel can be added again later.

[HuBu]

some take it out bc the biowheel is loud. also it will compete with you LR/LS. it is said to be a nitrate factory.

[Bocephous]

A typical biowheel has enough room to only grow aerobic bacteria. The weaker anaerobic bacteria that breaks down nitrates into nitrogen typically wont form. Although I have had luck running the very large biowheel pro60 on small FOWLR tanks I have yet to try it on a nano reef.

[Christopher Marks]

I vote to remove it. It will be beneficial down the road...

[Crakeur]

I used it to cycle the tank and then I tossed the damn thing. Needed room for my chiller so the wheel had to go. There's probably some subway rat getting a workout on it as I type this.

[grantlaw]

If you ask me, the mechanical filtration is the real problem with the Eclipse system. The biowheel isn't doing anything the live rock doesn't, but the filter fibers do trap proteinaceous material where your clean up crew can't reach. Instead of this material being utilized by your tank's inhabitants to form new proteins, they simply decompose on the filter, releasing nitrogen into your tank.

 

Whether you keep the biowheel, or pull it, you probably won't notice any difference (I didn't), but you might consider scrapping the little chem/mech filtration dealie.

[WillyWonka]

If you have enough live rock and live sand there is no need for a bio wheel. i have an eclipse 12 with about 18lbs of live rock and my nitrates actually went down after i took the thing out, i also tested for ammonia and nitrites a few times afterward and they stayed at zero, now i debating whether or not i should remove the mechanical filtration.

[DaveESPI]

Originally posted by Crakeur

I used it to cycle the tank and then I tossed the damn thing.  Needed room for my chiller so the wheel had to go.  There's probably some subway rat getting a workout on it as I type this.

 

BAHWAAWWWWWWAHHHHHHH HA AHAHAHAHAHAHHHH HAH !

[Wasabi]

What about putting a little LS and LR rubble in the media tray instead of sponge? Will this work as a little sump/refugium? Will the lack of light have a negative effect on this? I'm definitely going without the wheel but wondered if doing this would be beneficial as well. Also, does anyone use Purigen as a carbon replacement and for nitrate reduction? I use it on my FW planted tanks and it works very well. My water is always sparkling clear. Thanks for any input,

 

Scott

[chufa]

bump!

 

I have cycled my eclipse 12 with the biowheel. But now my nitrates are skyrocketing (40 ppm recently). Can I safely remove the biowheel now without starting another cycle? Tank is 1 month old. Thanks.

[printerdown01]

The problem with using the bio-wheel isn't really the fact that it puts out a lot of nitrates, it is that it is incredibly good at converting ammonia into nitrates. Thus, if you are running a wet-dry filter and you are having a problem with your nitrates, don't chuck your wet-dry, FIX YOUR AMMONIA problem which would be creating MAJOR problems (not just an algae problem) in your tank if you wet-dry wasn't in place!!! here see if my post on this thread makes sense to you:thread

[chufa]

Thx, Printerdown. I read your thread before asking. I understand that the biowheel still competes with the LR/LS which can harbor more anaerobic bacteria and can therefore convert more waste in N gas rather than nitrates. Hence, if you remove it, your LR/LS will eventually take over with less nitrate as a result.

 

However, I am still questioning whether it is safe to remove the biowheel without starting a new cycle. For now, I am playing it safe and keeping it; trying to manage the nitrate with less feeding, and more water changes.

[neumahrs]

no biowheel once the tank is going..in fact if you have liverock...get rid of the biowheel you don;t really need it

[printerdown01]

Chufa, if you really want to get rid of it you probably can. My guess is that you will see a spike of ammonia in your parameters, and then the bio-mass of bacteria in your LS and LR should increase to fill the gap in filtration. In the end your system should be fine (provided you have sufficient amounts of sand and rock). I would bet that the more of each you have the easier it will be for your rock and sand to pick up the slack (more breeding ground for bacteria). I would highly doubt that when your remove the bio-wheel that your LR and LS will seemlessly pick up their pace -but I would certainly not expect your tank to re-cycle. -Let me know how things work out! -Anthony

[Toyfreek]

Delbeek and Sprung suggest that the times that Bio-wheels/Bio-balls are nitrate factories are when used in conjunction with an overflow or a surface skimmer. The scum on the top of the water adds amino acids and organics that are quickely turned into nitrates not giving the anearobic bacteria a chance to do the whole nitrite step. That is the extra source of Nitrate, If you don't use a surface skimmer or an overflow you will only get what you put in out.

Good luck,

Toy

[grantlaw]

If you do some checking (preferably oceanography sources, not aquarium), you will find that nitrate can be reduced to nitrite (then to N2) by bacteria. The bio-wheel is very efficient at converting ammonia to nitrate, but competition between the bio-wheel's bacteria and the bacteria inhabiting live rock / live sand isn't the cause of high nitrates in the wet-dry/bio-wheel filtered aquarium -- the anaerobic de-nitrifiers are always doing their stuff. The high nitrates are a result of rotting organic material trapped in the filter.

 

Mechanical filtration is fine once in a while, but not continuously. When it is used, it is important to clean the gunk off the filter (or throw it away) once the filtration is completed.

[Toyfreek]

actually no that is not the case.

Nitrates can be converted to nitrogen gas, however, with a large aerobic bacteria colony as you would find with a Bio-wheel/Bio-balls, there is an unsufficient amount of anearobic bacteria present to keep up, as they are much slower to do thier thing. Also the anearobic areas in a nano are very limited therefore the anearobic population can never be expected to large enouigh to keep up with a filter with aerobic areas as large as a Bio-ball/Bio-wheel set-up.

Toy

[grantlaw]

Toyfreak is right -- if there is a high rate of nitrate production in a largely aerobic tank, anaerobic denitrification may not be able to control it. However, a high rate of nitrate production can not occur without a high rate of ammonia production. ammonia enters our systems when the amino acids comprising proteins are converted into sugars for energy by fish, inverts, or bacteria (these guys use nitrogen to build proteins, but not as much as they consume, yeilding a net production of inorganic nitrogen); as such, the rate of ammonia production in a system can be increased by nutrient input (over feeding), die-offs of tank inhabitants (plant or animal), and probably lots of other stuff I can't think of off the top of my head. For this reason, it seems a bit misleading to blame the bio-wheel's efficiency for high rates of nitrate production. Perhaps cutting back on food, clearing out unhealthy algae, or simply upping the biodiversity of the system may be a better response to high nitrates (not that removing the biowheel is a bad idea, I don't use mine!)

 

On the other hand, nitrogen can exist in our systems as dissolved organic nitrogen (DON), which is harmless to our critters, but probably utilizable by bacteria on the bio-wheel. if this is the case, bio-wheels may in fact be a SOURCE of inorganic nitrogen, not simply a door through which it passes.

 

I agree with ToyFreak, get rid of the thing . . . but don't write-off the possibility that your high nitrates are a symptom of some other problem.

[Toyfreek]

I think you are missing Delbeek and Sprung's take on this.

They are stating that extra amonia is being brought into the aquarium via a surface skimmer or overflow box in the form of organic solids and Amino acids, they are contacting the large aerobic area (bio-balls/Bio-wheel) and very rapidly (almost instantly) turned into nitrates. That is where your extra nitrates come from. So yes, in conjunction with a surface skimmer or an overflow they are nitrate factories.

Toy

[printerdown01]

I'm not sure where you are comming from, grantlaw.... I do agree with toyfreaks posts, but I also have a different take on wet/dry filtration. I can tell you for a fact that the biowheel is not causing a signifigant increase in Nitrates in my system, which has been running for over a year. My ammonia out put should be VERY low and I do not have a surface skimmer (which I had actually never thought of or heard of this being a problem before -however it does make sense!!!). The fact that my tank converts ammonia to nitrates QUICKLY is comforting for me. I am more worried about high ammonia (which is toxic) that high nitrates (which encourages algae growth, including zooxanthellae -leading to increased coal growth). However, I do not dissagree with what Toy has said!

[luv2jeep]

I've been using Eclipse filters as-is for 2 years on several nano's and have never had problems with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, nothing! I've even seen growth 4-fold from frags taken from my 75 reef after I put them in the nano Eclipse (skimmerless) system.

 

My Vote: Keep the wheel ... for no other reason than some engineer got paid thousands to design the water flow and filtering efficiency with the wheel intact!