Cant get nitrates down

[mginster]

I have a 3 month old 24g nano and cannot get the nitrates to drop, they are staying at 20 constantly.

 

Parameters:

SG: 1.021 (raising to 1.024 over time, drop was caused by improper level of ATO system)

Alk: 9

Nitrates: 20

Ph: 8.2

Phos: .25

Temps: 79.4 - 80.2

 

Livestock:

Pair of true percs

Lawnmower

Dwarf Angel

2 Purple Firefish

Scooter Blenny

5 snails

12 hermits

40lb LR (from a nearby dfwmas members 3 year old tank, completely encrusted in coraline)

~20lbs sand

 

Media/system:

Chemipure full bag

Sponge at top of chamber 1

Refugium with chaeto in middle of chamber 1 (recently added 1 week ago to try to drop nitrates)

Nano skimmer in chamber 2

 

Maintenance:

2g / week water changes

2 caps of liquid calc and 1 cap of trace elements dosing per week

 

Feed:

Frozen most days, flake 1 or 2 times a week

Phyto or microvert once a week

 

 

I know my tank is fairly new but its very established rock so I dont understand why my nitrates are so high all the time.

[SBrob]

The bioload of those 7 fish is probably too high for a 24g tank and that might be the reason for the high nitrates. I'm sure others will help with more information.

[MitchReef]

That's a MAJOR bioload for that tank. I have pretty near the same fishload in my 85G system. It's a lot of feeding too. I try to remember twice a week.

[mginster]

Ok ill try to drop my feeding a bit.

 

Is that really to high? 7 fish, 4 of which are very small..

 

If so I am setting up a 7.5 pico soon and may move 2 to it once its cycled.

[JSVAND5]

Yep, you are way overstocked. Just the percs and the firefish is pushing it imo.

[mginster]

 

So used to freshwater where i have 12 cichlids and 20 babies in a 20 gallon and some of the cichlids are 4 inches. But then again cichlids could live in glass cleaner, only thing that kills them is each other.

 

What could i possibly do to help me keep this many fish? I would at least like to keep the angel and firefish, maybe move my clowns to my new 7.5 pico. Would a few changes a week help keep this many?

 

I just keep seeing so many good deals on fish lol and have to have them. Just got a mated pair of picasso percs for 20 bucks last night, couldnt pass it up.

[jae4571]

As others have said you are way overstocked with fish and you are feeding too much. Theres a saying, "a hungry fish is a happy fish". I feed my corals frozen mysis once a week and that is the only time the fish get that. Then I feed a very small pinch of flake food once a day. I have 4 fish in a 34 Solana.

 

I would also up your water change amount. I probably only have 25 gallons of water taking into account displacemnt and I change out 5 gallons per week. If your going to keep 7 fish I would suggest you to also do 5 gal water changes.

[mginster]

Ok ill up my changes and amount of them and see if that helps.

 

Would two true percs in a 7.5 be too much?

[ReefEscape]

First point to make - 20 nitrate is not high - if it gets to 40 you have something to worry about.

 

Second, five fish (even small ones) is too many in a 24 gal unless you have a 30 gal sump and do 2 gal water changes every day, 3 to 4 is a much safer number for nutrient control.

 

Third, when you feed, feed tiny amounts 1-2 times per day and use frozen or freeze dried food. Flake and pellet food is extremely high in phosphate and nitrate.

 

Forth, if you must keep a lot of fish, boost your cleaning crew to control algea, increase your flow to 1000 gal/hr, change 1-2 gal of water every day and surface skim with filter floss and change it every 2-3 days.

[MitchReef]

An OLD rule of thumb was one fish per 10 gallons. That's ridiculous as a rule because a tiny neon goby versus a vlamingi tang are radically different, but it gives the idea.

[mginster]

Time to get a 70 gallon then! lol if only i didnt just retrofit my hood with 24x3W cree leds.

[amored]

everyone has good points here.

 

20 ppm of nitrates is not that high. a large majority of even sps corals and inverts can survive (key word-survive) in 20 ppm. of nitrates. work on getting it down, but don't lose sleep.

 

water changes every day are the best suggestion here, and you definitely need to move at least two of those fish out of there. also, 2 clowns in a 7.5 gallon pico is too much. you would have to do a gallon a day w/c on that tank, which would realistically only be holding 5 gallons anyway after rock and sand. (i have a 7.5 gallon pico which is holding 5 gallons of water and has only a 2" yasha goby in it.)

[pj86]

mginster, I do agree with the others that the tank is a little overstock with fish. Now about the nitrates, I see that you are using phyto and microvert. How much are using of those? And what are you feeding with phyto? Phyto is a very small food that if not consumed quickly by animals (mostly filter feeders) become dissolved nutrients that are hard to use which will greatly contribute to your nitrate increase.

[fiction101]

That's an odd mixture of fish for such a small tank.

 

I'm sure a lot of your fish will die off soon, so either clear out a few of them now or end up watching them die off one by one.

[tako]

I'll go against the grain and say that you could keep two juvenile clowns in a 7.5 -- keyword: juvenile. I keep 1 juvi ocellaris in my biocube 8. As a whole, I feed the other members of my tank (cleaner shrimp, sexy shrimp, and pom-pom crab) just as much as my clown. I feed about 4 times a week, but I'm putting in enough food for two clowns. I also put a small amount of phyto in for my corals twice a week.

 

I'm not doing a gallon w/c every day or something ridiculous like that. I generally change out 1-1.5 gal once a week. I finished stocking the tank 3 months ago, and my nitrates have always been <5. My tank is clean other than an occasional dusting on the glass.

 

Again, the 7.5g should only be a temporary solution. I already plan to give my one clown some more space in the future and hopefully get a mate for him/her.

[Mojorizn]

Anybody remember Glennr1978's 40B SPS tank with 12 fish?

 

Glenn's tank

 

My 40 has three fish, btw.

 

You can do it, but definitely not recommended.

 

best-o-luck

[blasterman]

Third, when you feed, feed tiny amounts 1-2 times per day and use frozen or freeze dried food. Flake and pellet food is extremely high in phosphate and nitrate.

 

That's like saying a Frozen Pot Pie is more nutritious than a granola bar.

 

The truth is that frozen marine foods are full of fat and oils that directly contribute to nitrate production while freeze dried foods are much cleaner. Feel free to try and cycle a tank a with freeze dried or dry food - it won't happen very quickly. Reefers have been brain washed that they need to feed their fish complex diets of frozen foods when the fact is their dietary requirements aren't any different than fresh water fish. Again, marketing at it's finest because LFS stores make more money selling frozen foods. All my salt fish, including angels get trained to eat dry food, and this helps reduce nitrate a bit.

 

I agree that 20ppm of nitrate isn't that big an issue (unless you want to have an ideal SPS environment) but I'm more concerned as the tank matures it will start riding higher. I also hate trying to combat nitrate issues with water changes because it's only a short term solution. You can change 50% of your water and nitrate will ride back up to it's 'happy spot' in a couple of days.

 

It's entirely possible that the feeding changes alone along with 20% weekly water changes might fix the problem, and at worst keep nitrate around 10-20ppm. It's also possible that nitrate will gradually increase as the tank ages, and then we will have a problem. At that point the OP will have to either remove some fish, or invest in a good skimmer or both. I would try plan (A) first and shoot for a 10-20ppm nitrate level *unless* the goal in to start keeping SPS.

[mginster]

mginster, I do agree with the others that the tank is a little overstock with fish. Now about the nitrates, I see that you are using phyto and microvert. How much are using of those? And what are you feeding with phyto? Phyto is a very small food that if not consumed quickly by animals (mostly filter feeders) become dissolved nutrients that are hard to use which will greatly contribute to your nitrate increase.

 

I use about a teaspoon of phyto 1 or 2 times a week. Microvert 1 tsp once a week.

 

Corals:

Zoas

Frogspawn

Torch

Hammer

Xenia

Maze's

Galaxea

GSP

Clove

Green Palys

[pj86]

Yea, that is quite a bit. Depending on the brand of phyto you use I have seen it range from 1-5 tsps per 100 gallons of water (daily). Also microvert is 1/2-1 1/2 tsps per 55g (3 times a week.) Now a lot of the corals you listed are photosynthetic and will get a lot of their nutrients from the light. I would say taper it down till you get to level of nitrates you want. Another suggestions is spot feeding corals that will take larger meaty foods instead of dosing the whole tank. Also what type of skimmer are you using?

[mginster]

Aqua euro nano 2 skimmer. Ive decided its almost impossible to level this thing correctly in a nano where the hood goes all the way down, so it fills up almost daily.

[E36 328i]

To get nitrates down...

 

1. Bigger waterchanges. The only thing that truly gets rid of nitrates directly without chemicals or filtration is a waterchange. The % of water you take out will lower your current nitrate by that %. So for example, if your gross volume is 20 gallons, and you remove 10 gallons of water, you effectively lower your nitrate (at that time) by 50%. Now there are exceptions, if you feed a bunch right after or have something dying/rotting in the tank the nitrate can raise back up.

 

2. Feed less frozen and when feeding frozen, thaw, filter, and rinse. Most frozen foods in cube forms or chopped forms contain a lot of nutrients that will not be utilized by the animals targeted at being fed. A good way at avoiding adding food that will inevitably be waste is to thaw and rinse the frozen food in RO water. After the food is thawed completely I take a fine mesh net and pour the water down the drain. The small particles will go through the holes and the food that your fish will eat will remain behind.

 

3. Skim wet, or get a better skimmer. "Wet" skimming will pull more nutrients out at the cost of using more seawater, so you will need to monitor your salinity more. Upgrading your skimmer can help dramatically as well if your skimmer isn't effective.

 

For what it's worth, 20ppm of nitrate is not that bad as others have said. Your tank IS overstocked, but it is not unmanageable. If they are all getting along fine you should be OK if you can keep up with the nutrient export. Your phosphate is also high, the things I mentioned above are all applicable to phosphate as well but the easiest and most commonly employed method at phosphate removal is phosphate resins. You can run one simply in a media bag (less effective) or employ a phosphate reactor (more effective). I recommend phosphate resins that do not leech such as RowaPhos or GFO (you can get that from Bulk Reef Supply cheap).