AI Sol Nano

[animalmaster6]

Sounds like a lot. I can't see one of these lighting a larger nano though. Like 30-40 breeders.

[soymilk]

I don't think the sol nano would light up a 40b that well. From what I've seen with led fixtures, light doesn't spread that well. I had the maxspect 60w which is about the same footprint as the ai nano. It had a hard time fully covering my ada 60p. (dimension are close to a 20h). The maxspect had no optics and the ai has 70deg optics.

 

I'd like to throw in my 2 cents about this whole "par monsters" debate. Let me first start off by saying I own the ai sol blue and a par meter. Ive also owned a maxspect 160w, I've also build my own diy fixture. So you could say I've had my fair share of led experiences.

 

I hate using the term par monsters but it's true. The ai light does produce insane amounts of par. It's not magic. There are 3 LEDs mounted on pucks, 8 pucks per module, 24 Cree xp LEDs per module. The center 4 pucks have 40degree optics, the outer 4 have 70deg optics. The close proximety of LEDs with 40 deg optics is why the par is so high. Technically if any other fixture builder did the same, they would get the same results. It's not anything special or magical about the ai. There's 12 LEDs within about a 3"x3" with 40 deg optics. You do the math. When you start measuring par off center or not under the 40 deg optics but under the 70 deg optics, it's a different story. In comparision, I tested the maxspect 160w. I get great par but as the distance increased the par dropped off significantly. Optics make a huge difference.

 

 

The ai sol nano has 12 Cree xp with 70 deg optics for good spread. They don't have the 40 deg optics so you won't get the crazy numbers like the ai sol. I believe evil par38 only has 5 XR(not xp) series leds per bulb. 12vs10... So it wasn't a fair comparison anyways. Not to mention the ai nano would have greater led density (LEDs closer together) so par readings taken with the nano will read higher. Unless you angle the par38 to target the same area. It's like stuffing 100 LEDs shoulder to shoulder and comparing it to a fixture that spaces 100 LEDs 1 inch apart. Although technically both fixtures give off the same output, the fixture that stuffed the LEDs closer together will get the higher par reading. So let's not get too wrapped up in numbers.

 

But seriously can't we all just get along.

[ReggieF]

Technically if any other fixture builder did the same, they would get the same results. It's not anything special or magical about the ai.

 

But seriously can't we all just get along.

Thank you, that's a very good post.

[soymilk]

Let's keep it civil

 

Pretty much every LED fixture is Cree LEDs + some arrangement of mass produced chinese electronics and heatsink (costing pennies on the dollar it's sold for for the most part - at least some are assembled and/or cooled better than others), so just pick the arrangement/amount/fixture design that works for you and go with it. This is an issue where comparing "who's best" is pretty much a moot point, because they're really all mostly the same. AI's only real claim to fame is the controller, they paid $$$ to license the ability to integrate a controller without getting sued.

 

I'm a big fan of Orphek as the only (mostly) non-chinese LED product available and their 'Power LED' diode, but their PR-156 is in no way designed for a nano, nor even their new PR-156W. Here's hoping they make something for us!

 

I'm generally not a fan of controllers, but they do have their use from in fixtures designed for nano aquariums because there are so many size/depth variations in nanos. Just find a setting and leave it, rather than stressing out your coral with spectral changes every other day, or alternatively, do some research, get a fixture designed for the size of aquarium you have, and save some $.

 

FWIW, I'm a fan of LED spotlights, because they're so versatile!

 

Hey mike,

 

I have a hard time grasping why dimming would be stressful for corals. I'd like to argue that IMO dimming actually helps corals adjust. In the wild, sudden changes in light are rare. I could argue going from no light to 100% light could be stressful to the corals. Metal halide slowly start up but LEDs are pretty much full blast from the get go. But I regress, I think we can just agree to dissagree on dimming.

 

One thing I can say for certain is with the dimming for dawn/dusk, that it is less stressful for my fish. With the maxspect, when he lights came on all my fish made a mad dash into the rockwork to hide, sometimes almost jumping out the tank. With the new ai, I notice them slowly get more active and "wake up". Seems a lot more natural to me.

 

Not trying to sound like a fan boy but how is orphek the only (mosty) non chinese light? It was designed in israel but mass produced in china. There's a post on rc showing pictures of the Chinese facilities. It's still made in china though. Unless you meant the company that designed it wasn't Chinese.

 

Aqua illumination is designed and manufactured in the USA. Elos designed and makes their led lights in Italy. Ecoxotic is an american based company, but I have no idea where they are being manufactured. Mame is designed and made in japan (hence the outrageous price) So I wouldn't call orphek the ONLY nonchinese company (even though they are produced in china). These are just the ones off the top of my head. There's also vertex made in Austria, and ton of others in europe I didn't even cover. How about nano tuners. Sure the par38 is mass-produced in china, but they do hand make several others here in America. Slifogoi, currentusa, Wavepoint, heck even eheim has a led light. I think I made my point.

[animalmaster6]

I don't think the sol nano would light up a 40b that well. From what I've seen with led fixtures, light doesn't spread that well. I had the maxspect 60w which is about the same footprint as the ai nano. It had a hard time fully covering my ada 60p. (dimension are close to a 20h). The maxspect had no optics and the ai has 70deg optics.

Did it really not cover an ADA 60p?

[soymilk]

I used the included glass mount. And the corners seemed very dark. It had no optics so I woulda thought it would spread better. The fixture was made more for a cube aquarium though.

 

The LEDs on the Maxspect had no optics so spread should be better than the ai. 60w vs 35w too. But I'm just guessing. It's hard to compare LEDs, my two ai at 60% look Alot brighter than maxspect 110w.

 

Too bad I never took a picture with the maxspect 60w, but here's one with the maxspect 160w on an ADA 60P. (30w LEDs are off)

[soymilk]

Here's a single AI Sol Super Blue on a Elos System 70. I have two but wondered how it would look with just one. One wasn't bad but it had a lot of shadows the back side of some Sps weren't getting any light. So I ended up putting two on.

[animalmaster6]

I guess the spread isn't that great.

[JDNels]

Here's a single AI Sol Super Blue on a Elos System 70. I have two but wondered how it would look with just one. One wasn't bad but it had a lot of shadows the back side of some Sps weren't getting any light. So I ended up putting two on.

How would 1 unit do over an Elos Midi??

[soymilk]

One unit should do pretty well. Depending on your rockwork. If you don't have any crazy pillars, it should cover it well. You would still have to hang it up high a little. Not many attractive mounts available for ai.

 

That's the zeroedge light tree in the picture.

[jdokos]

Does anyone know if/where the Sol Nano is available for sale in the US?

[clownfish14]

i talked to them and they said sometime in january but they were not exactly sure

[Mike Maddox]

The spotlights afford excellent par in their coverage area, Animal Master. Buy the ones from Evil, and although I haven't disassembled an LED product from Nanotuners, I would think internally they don't skimp on electronics and cooling - they never have in the past. Thanks for the kind words about the article!

 

Orphek's HQ is in Brazil, their design and R&D is split between Israel and Brazil, and just like everyone else, their products are assembled in China (well, Hong Kong). The difference with Orphek is internal: the drivers, diodes, etc are of higher quality, and in some cases, were specifically designed and made in-house.

 

Ecoxotic and Aquaillumination both use lower budget drivers and PCBs on the inside. What they do is order the parts from Chinese mass producers, assemble them in their home country (in the case of AI, anyway - Ecoxotic is owned by Current USA, and their products are assembled in China and "packaged" in the USA) in order to say "made in the USA". While it is perfectly okay for them to use whatever they want, IMO the pricing should reflect the fact that they're using seventy-five cent drivers...

 

I'm not familiar with Elos's production process (likely they order their electronics from China, and install them in Italy) but I have not disassembled an Elos light. Ask Evil about this one.

 

Are products made in China a bad thing? Not necessarily. Remember, virtually all diodes come from China, as will at least some components from every LED light! Another example: a Chinese company, Moso, makes some of the best LED electronics, and they're used worldwide: even our armed forces use them! Assembly in China is mostly unavoidable or LED fixtures would cost 5x what they do now (hence, mame's prices).

 

My issue with most LED products is they use the cheapest of the cheap of the mass produced electronics/products in China, which in the long term, make it not worth the purchase. For example, it has always been my opinion that at the price AI charges, their internal electronics should be of higher quality than they are, regardless of where they were made. I would be a big fan of AI if it weren't for this, because their exterior design is well thought out. Currently they're banking on external prettiness and somewhat-gimmicky things like replaceable diodes to sell their products. It's worked for them, so far. I'd like to see some macro photos of SPS under AI after 1+ years, though.

 

Soymilk, soft on/off has been demonstrated scientifically to not matter to coral. A sunrise/sunset effect is not noticed by coral, and is not less stressful than an on/off. Remember, coral are very simple organisms that only know three things when it comes to light: insufficient/compensation/photoinhibition.

 

When I refer to dimming being stressful, I refer to the spectral shift of the light, not the 'amount' of light. If a fixture that has dimming is adjusted to a setting and left there, that's fine. It's when aquarists play around and tinker with the dimming settings a few times a week that it becomes problematic and stressful to coral. I personally still don't see the use to dimming on large fixtures (no one cared about dimming their 48" T-5 and MH fixtures, why do they care about dimming their LED fixtures?) but I can see it's usefulness in nano fixtures. However, considering the patent issue, don't expect to see a lot of dimmable products in the US for the time being.

[animalmaster6]

I'm not currently looking to buy LED's, just thinking about them in case in a while I want to do a sleek nano.

[Mike Maddox]

I too am playing the waiting game when it comes to nano LED lighting.

[evilc66]

Mike, you may want to get your facts straight. AI electronics are most certainly not cheap Chinese components. Just because they may be assembled in China (where 99% of all manufacturers get their pcbs populated) does not in any way make them cheap. There is a huge difference between assembled in China, and designed/manufactured in China.

 

I personally know Chris at AI, and know that all the drivers and controls were designed here in the US, and assembled to their specifications (that means top end components, not cheap knock-offs). Chances are, they get their boards sourced in the US to improve quality control. I'll bet money you can open up one of their modules and pull part numbers for every component, and it will be a quality, name brand part.

 

As for Current/Ecoxotic, all of their electronics are sourced from Sunpark. They are a US company with manufacturing facilities in Asia. I should know. We buy from them too. They most certainly aren't your average run of the mill cheap Chinese drivers. They may not be the most feature rich units, but they are reliable.

[soymilk]

Mike: Can you point out what components are cheap from the ai? What driver do they use that cost 75 cents? What is your basis regarding that statement, do you have pictures or a schematic? From what I've seen from pictures of people swapping pucks that the unit is pretty well designed. The only thing I can mention is the lack of any thermal paste behind the pucks. The ability to swap out to a newer led series when they are released seems like a great idea IMO. I guess orphek answer to this is to buy a whole new fixture?

 

Can you post a picture of the orphek pcb so we can compare?

 

As for the china comment. There's nothing wrong with being assembled in china. I like to think apple is more than proof of that. I just wanted to point out how off base you were saying orphek is the ONLY non Chinese light out there. Obviously there's more than just orphek.

[Mike Maddox]

I never said Orphek is the only non-chinese light out there, that I recall. Orphek is manufactured in Hong Kong, and also has Chinese components.

 

I also never mentioned that being made in China is a bad thing, although I did mention cheap Chinese products are a bad thing (as are cheap US products, etc). ALL led lights feature at least some Chinese or Hong Kong made products, and as we all know, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

I will pull apart all of my review units again for pics/part #'s, I just remember thinking that for the price, the internal components of AI and Ecoxotic could have been better.

[evilc66]

You may not have explicitly said it, but it was certainly inferred. You are making some assumptions about the content of products that you have no knowledge of. Could you tell what a good or bad LED driver or power supply is just by looking at it? Probably not. I can, as I have a ton of experience with electrical systems, specifically DC power supplies and LED drivers. Just because it may not look high tech and fancy, doesn't mean it's not a quality peice of hardware. AI's drivers are some of the best on the market, so don't knock them unless you can back up what you are claiming.

 

As for Elos (catching a few other things in one of your previous posts), the E-Lite electronics are very well made, but I have no idea as to where they are assembled. There was a lot of thought put into the design of the board, and most of the features weren't even implemented until the RGB demo showed up. That's right, the drivers are dimmable, and controlled by a small microcontroller, right on the pcb. The micro and it's support components are not populated on the standard E-Lite's, but the drivers are Zetex ZXLD1362 drivers (one of my personal favorites), and fully dimmable.

 

Dimming should not be as stressful to corals as everyone makes out, even if you play with the brightness and spectral balance a few times a week. Many times, the changes are very temporary, lasting only a few minutes. Hardly enough time to induce any appreciable amount of stress in the coral. Corals in the wild see brightness and color temperature changes all the time, with cloud cover (albeit limited around the equator, but it does shift the color temperature north towards 7-8000K, vs. 5500K for noon daylight), sunrise, and sunset (sunrise and sunset can drop the color temperature down to below 3000K at certain times)

[soymilk]

I never said Orphek is the only non-chinese light out there, that I recall. Orphek is manufactured in Hong Kong, and also has Chinese components.

 

I'm a big fan of Orphek as the only (mostly) non-chinese LED product available and their 'Power LED' diode, but their PR-156 is in no way designed for a nano, nor even their new PR-156W. Here's hoping they make something for us!

 

Not trying to kick a guy when he's down but..... Cocaine is a hella a drug.

[Mike Maddox]

Nope, I can't tell by looking - I have to look it up by part number, usually!

 

I don't know as much about electronics as some, I usually rely on what my electrical engineering friend tells me, so I'll ask him why he doesn't like what AI's using that much.

 

I do know what thousands of $$$ worth of livestock in a dozen-odd systems is healthiest/looks best, and I'm still testing that. Don't get me too wrong here, I'm not bashing the AI fixtures - if I were going to buy a Cree based setup, they'd be it, but I'm still out to lunch as to how livestock fares/looks after several months under Crees...

 

We all make mistakes/typos, soymilk, no worries!

 

Anyway, it's back to lurking now for a few more months of eval over the 'ol holding tanks, etc!

[CONSTANTNE]

Im glad a professional (evil) chimed in to give us some advice regarding these fixtures.

[Tenacious716]

Amen... there's a lot of 'fluff' in this thread from people who have 0% experience using them. I wouldn't ever buy an Orphek LED unit based solely on the fact that they shill on every reefing forum/blog, including this one.

 

I recently purchased an AI Sol Blue for my new Solana setup and after owning LOTS of fixtures (everything from Giesemann to ATI) I can tell that this piece of equipment has been through some rigorous R&D.

 

Thanks for chiming in, Evil. It makes me happy to know you are willing to give credit where credit is certainly due. ;]

[mikejrice]

Michael Maddux: You're all over the place bashing on things you know nothing about these days. I'm just stopping in to put your entire argument in to context.

 

http://www.whois.net/whois/buyorpheklights.com.com

 

You should get your hand out of the cookie jar before you talk out of turn.

 

On the subject of the original post, the Nano SOL easily covers about 24 X 24, but it definitely would not come close to covering a 40 breeder. Best nano light I've ever run!

[ry05coupe]

Something about him was just poster of reefbuilders.com

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2011/09/14/mike-maddox/

 

Also, nice thread revival.