Possibility of caring for blue velvet nudibranch

[pj86]

I wanted to start this thread in light of my curiosity of the possibility of caring for a blue velvet nudibranch (BVN) instead of just using it as a remedy for a flatworm infestation. I know that all nudi's are specific eaters. What intrigues me about the BVN is that its food source is known, Acoel flatworm, which is considered to be a pest in an aquarium. Also, like almost any other invertebrate they are very delicate to changes in water chemistry.

Now comes the part that many people have not tried or frown upon. What would be the possibility of raising flatworms in a separate tank and feeding it to BVN? Has anyone tried to freeze flatworms and feed it to BVN's? I know these animals can be underfed, but are they like some animals were they can eat till they cause their own death? In other words has anyone tried to see what their feeding patterns are bc I'm pretty sure in nature they go through some periods of searching for food in which they don't feed (assumption).

I'm thinking about these issues and possibility of caring for one. First step would get a constant food supply, a tank dedicated to flatworms. This should be a simple task because some flatworms apparently reproduce in about 4-6 days. They also release several eggs. Also the tank should have maximum surface area and easy collection access for maximum capacity. After establishing this tank, second task would be securing the tank the BVD will be housed in, making sure there are no pumps or places where the BVN can die. Third, would be obtaining a BVD which my LFS carries (reason why I thought about this project.) Fourth, begin feeding without spreading the flatworms to the main tank. I have several ideas for this part, which in my thought is the hardest part of the project. The ideal plan would be if it eats frozen flatworms this solves the problem of them being able to spread, also opens the possibility of increasing the nutritional value of the flatworms by letting them soak in supplements, therefore decreasing the need to feed large amounts of flatworms.

If this all works out (usually doesn't work out as planned), then one more species will be able to deserve the care it requires as a pet. Any comments and ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[pj86]

Okay project has begun so material

 

Have

2.5 g tank

A picotope filter

Zip block bags (will be cut to increase surface area)

 

Need

2 lbs of live rock and about 1 lb of crushed live rubble

A refugium light

And a good colony of flatworms (attached to small rock) after tank has cycled

 

So Im debatting what type of spectrum light. I was thinking maybe a plant spectrum light because most alcoels have a symbiotic relationship with algae. They also get food source from detritus and small organism (easily obtain by using water from the established tank when water changes are done.) Hopefully I can get this tank running its cycle by this weekend.

[Dani3d]

I have one in my tank for a month now. It's a very cool creature but it eats a lot! I had flatworms all over my tank. Sand was covered, liverock, coral etc..everywhere. After one month the nudibranch literaly deprived the tank of flatworms and now I have to take it in my hand and gently put it in spots I see flatworms gathering so that I can help it find its food easier.

 

I originaly bought 2 of them and one died after a few days as I never saw it again.

 

I had to cover both of my pump with a net mesh because they get very easily grabbed by pumps and seem to be unable to detach from it. When I see my nudi on a pump I have to shut it down and then the nudi detach. Problem is they often go floating in the water so any pump will gobble them quick and they will be history. So having the pump setup properly is an absolute must.

 

Mine will go on feeding spree and then go rest in the very high flow, being tossed by the current. Funny he seem to like that. Feeding pattern is that it go to feed for a while and they form a mucus cocoon and sleep in there for hours, then go back to hunt etc..

 

Are you aware that they have a very short livespan of about 3 months???

 

And it is nearly impossible to raise the larvea in captivity. No one has ever succeeded in doing that although they do spawn in aquarium.

 

In a 2.5 gallons it will probably be very hard to keep your water parameters stable enough to keep this fragile creature alive.

 

I don,t beleive that freezing flatworms would work as I think they only go for live prey.

 

Don't underestimate the requirement in flatworm. I have only one and in one month I am already almost out of flatworms and this is a 75 gallons that was totaly infested with them. So go figure!

 

Oh BTW, the main reason I keep one is because I really like them. I did have a flatworm problem but it's not the only reason I bought one. When this one die, I will be letting the flatworm population rise to holocost proportion again and buy a new nudi because I enjoy having one and caring for it. I don,t mine much the flatworms once the nudi is in the tank they are history fast.

 

Here is a pic of mine. You can see a few flatworms in there and this is the spot that has now the most concentration of them. They use to cover the liverock completely:

 

[Harlequin741]

They are cool tank mates as long as they have plenty to eat.

[pj86]

Dani3d thanks for the detail explanation and your BVN is looking great. After doing some more research I bumped into the best thread/article so far about caring for these animals. A 10g tank is sufficient to raise enough flatworms to feed these creatures. Here is the article http://www.reefstewardshipfoundation.org/f...13030#post13030. Also on another thread he states that he knew a member from the forum that was successful in breeding/raising these creatures but did not reveal his method. Might be false though, either way the feeding issue might be resolved.

This gives me more inspiration and insight. I might follow through with this project.

[pj86]

If I would go through with this project, who would kindly be willing to give me some flatworms? Preferably these http://www.seaslugforum.net/display.cfm?id=5836. I would try to establish a colony of flatworms, that would be the first project.

[Dani3d]

yes establishing a colonie of food is the first step. I don't find them so fast to reproduce as I have introduced some in my 21 gallons frag tank months ago and not sure why but there have no predator in there and they still don't reproduce fast. I see only a few here and there after like 3 months.

 

I guess the more the water volume the faster they reproduce.

 

the flatworm you show in your pic, brown with a little red dot is one of the type I have in my aquarium. I have some that are totaly brown as well. The nudi eat both.

 

but I do not beleive that one can raise as many flatworms that is needed for a single nudibranch unless it is a large aquarium and I seriously doubt you can built such population in just a 10 gallons tank, but that's my feeling about it juging how fast my single nudi eated my flatworms. I mean I am not even sure it,s going to have enough food for the rest of its live, even if I take those from my 21 gallons which I let reproduce and I put food in the aquarium hoping they will kick on production.

 

Anyway if you go along with the culturing of flatworm, you will see how it goes

 

 

 

If I would go through with this project, who would kindly be willing to give me some flatworms? Preferably these http://www.seaslugforum.net/display.cfm?id=5836. I would try to establish a colony of flatworms, that would be the first project.

[pj86]

Thanks Dani3d for the great info. So I begin the project by seeing the maximal growth pattern of flatworms. I have set up the tank as simple as possible to begin with. So this means no live rock or sand. The only thing will be some chaeto and filtered floss that has been used from my other tank. I'm using these because main food source of flatworms are symbiotic algae, detritus and microscopic stuff (copepods). Also this means a compact fluorescent in the 2000-5000k range for optimal plant growth. This would not be the typical tank setup for corals of course, but rather I'm trying to do an optimal tank setup for flatworms. Now the constant food source will be coming from my main tank which is a 3g tank. Instead of dumping the water change I will be using that to do water changes for the flatworm tank. Also instead of throwing the floss from the 3g tank I will be putting that in the flatworm tank.

My reasoning in not doing a live rock cycle is to minimize competing organisms for food source. Also, I probably will lean toward a more high nitrate content for optimal plant growth which means more food for the flatworms but of course not so high to kill them off. Well more ideas to come later. Here is a pic of the current set up. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[pj86]

Anyone in the Houston area that can donate some flatworms?

[Whys]

Anything to report?

[CoralWhisperer]

Dani3d, that is an awesome EFFing picture!

[pj86]

Whys, project is still on hold. I have everything set, only thing holding me back at the moment is raising 200 sexy shrimp. Once, I'm done with that, I will tackle this project.

[Builder Anthony]

http://www.seaslugforum.net/message/19447

[Whys]

I finally have some sexy shrimp in a breeder myself. Currently, my display tank is acting as a flatworm ranch for future attempts at BVN. I haven't tried freezing any, have you? Their bodies are pretty darn delicate, freezing might just reduce them to mush. Of real concern is that the slugs probably only eat them live.

 

It might be necessary for me to setup a dedicated flatworm tank at some point. Thus if I can't beat them, then I'll at least join them. They do great in a species tank!

[pj86]

I finally have some sexy shrimp in a breeder myself. Currently, my display tank is acting as a flatworm ranch for future attempts at BVN. I haven't tried freezing any, have you? Their bodies are pretty darn delicate, freezing might just reduce them to mush. Of real concern is that the slugs probably only eat them live.

 

It might be necessary for me to setup a dedicated flatworm tank at some point. Thus if I can't beat them, then I'll at least join them. They do great in a species tank!

 

Nice. I had bookmarked a paper about flatworm mass reproduction somewhere for research purposes. Ill try to find it.

[Whys]

What do you suppose is the ideal environment for red planaria? I'm giving my flatworm culture tank some thought and wanted to bounce it off of you.

 

I have an old 40g glass I'm not using. It's my original first saltwater tank from when I was 12. I used it for a couple pet rats once and one of them compulsively chewed out all the silicone, so I'll need to reseam it, but the size seems about right. I also have a 400w MH hanging around, but I'm not certain they actually want that much light. The other option would be a 24" PC 10k x2. I could start with that and if they seem to all be huddling in the center, then I could try the MH. The tank will sit at floor level, so I could put some good distance between it and the MH to try and find a balance.

 

No liverock and just a quarter inch assorted sandbed. Assorted as in all my left over sand from previous projects just thrown together. Was thinking of running it skimmerless and giving it all my water change water from the breeder, which is already water change water from my display. If that's still not dirty enough, I could toss some of my skimmate in there.

 

I figure a couple airstones, a small koralia for minimal circulation, and a 150w heater.

 

What do you think?

[pj86]

I found the thread that had the articles. http://www.reefstewardshipfoundation.org/f...13030#post13030

 

Flatworms have a symbiotic relationship with algae. So fluorescent lighting or any lighting for macroalgae would be ideal. Another recommendation would be to create as much surface area as possible. Both articles in there have great specific information. Hope that helps.

[mndfreeze]

you need plant growth lighting for sure. Live rock will help a TON. Basically you want to turn it into a algea growth farm. My flatworms get worse and worse the more I overfeed or create algea problems. if I clean up my tank, skim better, feed less, etc. and get clean glass they dissapear.

 

Algae really is the key to those flatworms.

[Whys]

Take special note of pages 14 and 15.

 

Pure gold.

[sanchez]

This is really interesting, can't wait to see how things turn out for both of you guys. Hats off to you for taking on a strange project (strange to the reefing world, not necessarily weird).

[DK_Reef]

nice project

[BluCrab]

I know this is an old topic but have you found a place in Houston that sells Nudibranchs? If they die after 3 months I don't want to spend $60 for shipping from Florida.

[eklikewhoa]

I know this is an old topic but have you found a place in Houston that sells Nudibranchs? If they die after 3 months I don't want to spend $60 for shipping from Florida.

 

Normally see them at CityPets, might want to ask Donnie over there when he can get some more?

 

I wouldn't mind getting one myself.

[BluCrab]

Sweet thanks for the reply. I'll check with City Pets. I spoke to a guy at Aquarium World over off of 290 and he said that they usually are seasonal, to check back with him in the Spring.

[eklikewhoa]

Sweet thanks for the reply. I'll check with City Pets. I spoke to a guy at Aquarium World over off of 290 and he said that they usually are seasonal, to check back with him in the Spring.

 

Hate knocking the place since they usually have clean fish but their knowledge base is pretty weak.

 

Although FishGallery has high prices I really enjoy it there, SOME of the staff have some serious knowledge for what they do there. Another place you could try asking.