how to check for TDS?

[Wilioli]

hey, I'm using tap water (i know) for my 10 gallon.. and well, everyone is tryin to school me into not using it and using ro/di water. I'm under the impression (maybe cause im being naive) that my tap water is perfect soft water with incredibly low TDS... anyways, how can i check my tds levels w/o buying a meter? is there some sort of way to find this out -- or is the meter method the only way to know ? Meter is obviously the only way to find out a numerical value, what Im asking for is a low/high method -- so i can continue to use or not use tap water.

 

Thanks.

[AZDesertRat]

A TDS or conductivty meter is the only way.

You are being foolish, no water is pure or pristine.

What is the source of your water? Just because water may be soft does not mean it is devoid of minerals and contamiants, water cam be soft but extremely high in many things, soft only means the calcium and magnesium are low.

[Wilioli]

A TDS or conductivty meter is the only way.

You are being foolish, no water is pure or pristine.

What is the source of your water? Just because water may be soft does not mean it is devoid of minerals and contamiants, water cam be soft but extremely high in many things, soft only means the calcium and magnesium are low.

okkkk take it easy buddy.. lol, i wasn't tryin to infer that my water is pure or pristine. I am admitting that I have TDS. I am also stating that if its on the LOW level I can get away with using it for my tank, as opposed to the standard 150 that most tap water is -- without being 'soft'. I have no idea what my source of water is.. could u be more specific? forgive the ignorance.

[jae4571]

As stated before the only way to test for TDS is with a meter. You can grab them pretty cheap online. I would caution you from using tap water. My tank had been set up for a year and everything was pristine in it. I got all of my water (salt and fresh) from my friend who owned a LFS. Well, due to the economy he had to close. SO..I started getting water from another store. Lets just say since using said water I began to see the appearance of all types on nuisance algae. I attribute most of this to their poor water quality since nothing on my part changed. Using RO/DI water is going to save you so many head aches in the long run. To put it simply you are going to be investing probably well over $1,000 in your tank with equipment and livestock if you plan on doing corals. Using tap water isn't something I'm willing to risk on that type of investment. Good luck!

[AZDesertRat]

Where does your water come from, is it a municipal water system or a private well? If its provided to you you are entitled to an annual water quality report per the EPA. If its a private well you should have it tested at least every 5 years for your own safety.

 

The goal is 0 TDS, not low or any other TDS. Since TDS is not a measure of anything specific, just that something electrically conductive is present you want no TDS reading.

[Wilioli]

As stated before the only way to test for TDS is with a meter. You can grab them pretty cheap online. I would caution you from using tap water. My tank had been set up for a year and everything was pristine in it. I got all of my water (salt and fresh) from my friend who owned a LFS. Well, due to the economy he had to close. SO..I started getting water from another store. Lets just say since using said water I began to see the appearance of all types on nuisance algae. I attribute most of this to their poor water quality since nothing on my part changed. Using RO/DI water is going to save you so many head aches in the long run. To put it simply you are going to be investing probably well over $1,000 in your tank with equipment and livestock if you plan on doing corals. Using tap water isn't something I'm willing to risk on that type of investment. Good luck!

thanks for the quick reply and input, greatly appreciated!

[Wilioli]

Where does your water come from, is it a municipal water system or a private well? If its provided to you you are entitled to an annual water quality report per the EPA. If its a private well you should have it tested at least every 5 years for your own safety.

 

The goal is 0 TDS, not low or any other TDS. Since TDS is not a measure of anything specific, just that something electrically conductive is present you want no TDS reading.

 

gotcha, yea its municipal water system. im in canada.. so its not an annual EPA but yes we have something similar per municipality -- water quality is actually one of the top in the country.. umm... yea not sure what else to say bout that...

 

i understand ur tds explanation now.. thanks

 

another thing to... ro/di is supposed to be water at 8.x pH? I've read distilled water is the next best option.. but isnt' distilled water more acidic compared to the 8.x thats needed? I have a de-humidifer in the basement that collects water as distilled water.. tested it -- its ph is 5.5!!! not sure if i should start a new thread for this..?

[AZDesertRat]

You cannot accurately measure the pH of RO/DI or distilled water, there are too few ions to measure. It does not matter anyway as RO/DI quickly takes on the pH of whatever it is added to or is added to it, same with distilled but RO/DI is more pure.

[Pickle010]

My water TDS tests at 40 right out of the tap - some bottled water tests higher. I still won't use it.

[Wilioli]

You cannot accurately measure the pH of RO/DI or distilled water, there are too few ions to measure. It does not matter anyway as RO/DI quickly takes on the pH of whatever it is added to or is added to it, same with distilled but RO/DI is more pure.

thats very interesting... so i could use that distilled water i have then.... and it'll just take on the ph of the tank? hmm... so what about those that start a tank with 100% distilled or ro/di water? what ph does it... 'take on' if the ph is generally lower than 8 for the two?

 

please excuse me, but could u quickly explain gh and kh to me as well? thanks

[AZDesertRat]

It takes on the pH of whatever the salt mix is buffered to, modern salt mixes are all designed specifically for RO/DI water.

[Wilioli]

this is interesting.. see my tap water kh is 11.. the gh is 1or 2... the distilled water -- altho low ph -- has a gh and kh of 1 or 2... it was tough to see the color change with the drops i was using on my testing kit.. but yea.. so that basically goes with what ur sayin... no crazy buffer to bring the ph down or up.. so it adapts...

[Markushka]

gotcha, yea its municipal water system. im in canada.. so its not an annual EPA but yes we have something similar per municipality -- water quality is actually one of the top in the country.. umm... yea not sure what else to say bout that...

 

i understand ur tds explanation now.. thanks

 

another thing to... ro/di is supposed to be water at 8.x pH? I've read distilled water is the next best option.. but isnt' distilled water more acidic compared to the 8.x thats needed? I have a de-humidifer in the basement that collects water as distilled water.. tested it -- its ph is 5.5!!! not sure if i should start a new thread for this..?

Don't use dehumidifier water! I did that once thinking it was alright. well it isn't!

 

pH is the measure of the ration of H+ to OH- ions in the water. Ideally both distilled and RO/DI should be around 7. Adding salt to the water will buffer up the pH to the 8.3 range, no need to worry there.

 

GH and KH are sort of Freshwater terms. GH is general hardness, this is the measure of all the dissolved Mg and Ca ions. KH is carbonate hardness, this is the measure of temporary hardness. In reef tanks the individual concentrations of both Ca and Mg are important to monitor so they aren't referred to as GH and KH. Also distilled and RO/DI water should have 0 values for GH and KH.

 

Soft water is not necessarily good. soft water, when treated with a water softener will actually have more TDS than the hard water. The water softener is removing the Mg and Ca ions and replacing them with other ions. this process is not efficient and therefore more ions are released than trapped. Also the Mg and Ca ions are useful in our tanks. Another reason not to use tap are the dissolved heavy metal ions which are harmful (such as Cu ions) by using tap these tend to build up in our systems (they don't evaporate, while the water does and then the water is replaced adding more heavy metals).

 

With all that said, I personally use tap water. I feel that it is beneficial for my macroalgaes, and I take care of nuisance algaes tho they are a PITA. I will move to a mix of RO/DI and tap as soon as I save up enough to buy an RO system. (I did extensive testing on my tap water, it comes from a private well and there is no water softener or chlorinator etc.)

 

now to stop procrastinating lol.

[Wilioli]

Don't use dehumidifier water! I did that once thinking it was alright. well it isn't!

BOOM. Awesome post -- i didn't quote the whole thing so i wouldn't take up so much space -- thanks for answering my question. Could u elaborate a bit more on why its not ok to use dehumidifier water?

 

Im gonna go on a search to get some ro/di water, and do the same as u -- save up for a ro/di adapter..

[Markushka]

BOOM. Awesome post -- i didn't quote the whole thing so i wouldn't take up so much space -- thanks for answering my question. Could u elaborate a bit more on why its not ok to use dehumidifier water?

 

Im gonna go on a search to get some ro/di water, and do the same as u -- save up for a ro/di adapter..

 

Well dehumidifier water isn't anything like distilled. Wikipedia gives a very good explanation. I used it once on my hex tank before I dismantled it. Well it ####ed everything up pretty well. I was already in the process of tearing it down so luckily I didn't lose anything, tho I'm thinking that the clams death was somehow related. (although I still believe the torch falling on it was the primary reason)

[Wilioli]

Well dehumidifier water isn't anything like distilled. Wikipedia gives a very good explanation. I used it once on my hex tank before I dismantled it. Well it ####ed everything up pretty well. I was already in the process of tearing it down so luckily I didn't lose anything, tho I'm thinking that the clams death was somehow related. (although I still believe the torch falling on it was the primary reason)

awesome -- done deal, u've converted me to ro/di

[Wilioli]

oh and markushka -- i got my soft water tested at the same place i got the ro/di water -- 400 something tds!! u were right.. higher than hard water.. incredible... the guy was even surprised.. gonna have to investigate this..

[Hans Dorn]

Water softeners replace each Ca++ and Mg++ with 2Na+ ions. This increases the total ion count and hence conductivity.

 

Conductivity is what your TDS meter really measures.

[Wilioli]

Water softeners replace each Ca++ and Mg++ with 2Na+ ions. This increases the total ion count and hence conductivity.

 

Conductivity is what your TDS meter really measures.

gotcha -- thank you.. so this 400 reading may not be a horrible thing.. just too much 'softness' of the water.. maybe..

[AZDesertRat]

Softeners remove or reduce calcium and magnesium. They do nothing for nitrates, little for iron, nothing for copper, arsenic, phosphates, silicates and much more.

It all goes back to you do not know what the TDS is made up of, only that something electrically conductive is there.

[Wilioli]

Softeners remove or reduce calcium and magnesium. They do nothing for nitrates, little for iron, nothing for copper, arsenic, phosphates, silicates and much more.

It all goes back to you do not know what the TDS is made up of, only that something electrically conductive is there.

i see that you're a water consultant --> so the annual reports that municipal water agency present, they have what they believe the levels of copper, arsenic, phosphates, etc etc to be. That total is given . Is this total in anyway related to TDS?

[AZDesertRat]

Yes, all contribute to TDS.

Annual water quality reports can be a bit misleading though. They should be considered a "snapshot in time" meaning they were representative of the water at that particular place at that particular time. Water changes from hour to hour or day to day depending on the sources and blends. As demands change more wells or reservoirs are put into use so it changes. You also have to consider distribution system quality, the water could be great coming from the plant but there could be a backflow down the street, or a broken water main, or some car knocked the hydrant off and caused a change in flow direction or a backsiphonage. You may also live on the outskirts of the water system and the report is at the source so again things change. There can be breakdown of chlorine in the system, or sediment, or organics or........

[Wilioli]

It takes on the pH of whatever the salt mix is buffered to, modern salt mixes are all designed specifically for RO/DI water.

going off of this -- i got the ro/di water, mixed instant ocean salt with it.. got a sg of 1.025, and the ph was... 7.7.. ???? should it not have been 8-8.4.. ??

[naw707]

going off of this -- i got the ro/di water, mixed instant ocean salt with it.. got a sg of 1.025, and the ph was... 7.7.. ???? should it not have been 8-8.4.. ??

 

was the RO/DI water agitated and heated for at least 24 hours before adding salt? Maybe someone with more experience can chime in but thats what I have been doing and everything is perfect...

[Wilioli]

was the RO/DI water agitated and heated for at least 24 hours before adding salt? Maybe someone with more experience can chime in but thats what I have been doing and everything is perfect...

umm. nope.. wasn't agigtated, or heated.. well it was heated... but not 24 hours... strange, thats what needs to be done with ro/di water?