Designing an LED build

[Genj]

Well, I thought I spent too much time designing layout, I can see that you have me beat. And because of it, I must say that I really like the concept.

 

I think you should move the moonlight and utilize that center spot for the cyan or the true violet. Option 3 would work because you then get to integrate the most colors.

 

I'm 20-24" from the bottom of the tank myself. Based on my conversations with evil, you shouldn't need optics either.

 

BTW, I decided on all meanwells, which allows me to utilize 1 AC cord. It's easy to dim with a 9v wall wart. I stole the dimmer diagram from the thread that discusses this and tweaked it per evil's comments to me in PM:

 

 

Here is my version of your design on my heatsink as well.

 

[Mr. Microscope]

Hmm..I thought you still needed to hook up a PWM/LM317 between the pot and MeanWell.

 

Holy cow! 46 LEDs!? That's like $350 just in LEDs!

 

I think you'll need more than 3 MeanWells for that. It's 12 LED's/MeanWell. You could run some in parallel, but that's risky.

 

Thanks for your input on the color options. Do you know about any benefits of Cool White vs. Neutral White (for corals and looks)? Why should I have some of both instead of just Neutral White (other than color integration)?

 

Have you found a good source for Cyan LEDs? I was looking at Luxeon Stars, but no guarantees you'll get a Green Cyan or a Blue Cyan. We need to get our hands on some binned Cyans. Check out their warning about color variants.

 

Good to know I probably won't need any optics. Color shadows suck.

 

Thanks for your input GenJ. Good luck with your build!

[Genj]

Yes, you are correct, I'll need more Meanwells for that layout. That dimming control was simply representative of of what I was thinking before I saw your Donald in Math-magic Land layout.

 

This topic covers the cheap way of dimming the Meanwell drivers: HERE

 

No, I have no real evidence on the color between the NW and the CW other than what my gut is telling me from the aesthetics thread. I'm experimenting a bit with that...

 

Cyan is something that I've been a bit worried about as well; however, I am going to hope for the best and prepare to have a few extra cyan sitting around in case I don't get the right wavelength from them.

[Genj]

So what did you decide?

[Mr. Microscope]

Not much yet. 300 views and 3 days later and only you've posted any input. Thanks to you however, I'm not worrying about optics anymore. I've also decided to put cyan on the back burner for a while until we can find a binned cyan. I'm not too worried about it right now though. It'll be a while before I build it.

 

Right now I'm focusing on the casing. As you saw, I'm planning to use white acrylic. So, I'm trying to figure out how to assemble acrylic and then I'll be designing that too and incorporating the above guts into it (I wonder how many design revisions that will take?! ).

 

I'm going to the manhattan reefs frag swap next Sunday. RapidLED will be there. I'm hoping that they will be selling cheap LEDs and other accessories. I figure if I can at least get a few RBs bought, it will be easier to get the rest later. I'm also thinking about attempting to build the LED modified version of my old 18 watt current satellite like Evil built about a year ago. After all this research and thought, it seems like it would be any easy build and probably a good practice module for me to master soldering, wiring, and the such. Then I could rip it apart and use the same materials in the big one.

 

Thanks for the bump!

[markandstaci]

I think you should definitely incorporate the true violet LEDs into your light. If they are like the "UV" stunners that I have, you will not regret adding them. When the UVs are the only lights on in my tank, anything green glows like mad! My trumpet corals look like glow sticks when the UVs are on. Plus, you might not need to use a moonlight if you use the true violets... I use my UV stunners as moonlights and they are great. Not too bright, and a they give a really interesting look to the tank.

[Mr. Microscope]

Thanks for your input.

 

Yeah, I'm really curious about the new TVs. They are very close to UV, but 420nm puts them slightly above that range. I think they might be too powerful for moonlights, but I'm strongly considering their addition. This wavelength is supposed to be beneficial for corals and add an extra hint of color.

 

When you run your stunners as a moonlight, do your corals close up? Do other corals and wildlife act like they should at night? How is your growth? Corals do their growing at night. Seems like too much light at night might cause some issues.

[markandstaci]

Yep the TVs are just slightly longer wavelength than the UV stunners (420 vs 403 nm). I leave the UV stunners on 24/7, but you can't tell if they're on or not during the day. At night, everything closes up like it should. They are definitely not too bright; I'd say they're probably not AS bright as most moonlights out there. The TV LEDs from nanotuners might be too bright though because they are more powerful than the Stunner strips; but if you have them on a dimmable buckpuck you could turn them down for use as a moonlight.

 

Growth is pretty good on my corals, but I can't speculate as to the effects of the UV light. My reasoning for getting them was to add some additional spectrum to my lighting; natural sunlight has a lot more spectrum than the pure white and blue from my other LED fixtures. But again, I have no idea if it has a measurable effect on the coral growth or not. I do think it might make my green corals a little brighter because they fluoresce so strongly under the 403 nm light (so maybe they have more green pigment as a sort of "sunblock" against the UV light); but I couldn't state that with certainty.

[beeker]

with the space you are working with i feel 24-36 leds would be more than enough IMO personally i'd never want to go less than 24 led for any tank larger than a 10 gallon

 

Assuming your dimensions Are 20*20*18

 

I'd do 5 cool white, 5 neutral white, 6 royal blue, 5 cool blue, 4 cyan

 

this would net you a good color blend, if you don't like yellow or white, just take 1 of each off and add 1 more cool blue and 1 more royal blue

 

or when true violet comes out

 

4 cool white, 4 neutral white, 4 royal blue, 4 cool blue, 4 true violet, 4 cyan this would work good as well IMO

 

From my own experience you can most likely grow any sps or corals with just blue light, now i'm not saying the color or growth would be stellar but IMO it is possible to grow coral with no Neutral white or Cool white

 

It wouldn't be eye pleasing at all, considering you'd have a purple/blue/cyan looking tank, you kindof need some cool white and neutral white to blend it out to a degree

[Mr. Microscope]

Thanks for your input Beeker! I have a couple questions.

 

with the space you are working with i feel 24-36 leds would be more than enough IMO personally i'd never want to go less than 24 led for any tank larger than a 10 gallon

Assuming your dimensions Are 20*20*18

So, you think 18 LED's wouldn't be enough for my cube, which will be 18 x 18 x 18 (25 gallons)? That is, granted I want the capability to grow pretty much anything.

 

I'd do 5 cool white, 5 neutral white, 6 royal blue, 5 cool blue, 4 cyan

this would net you a good color blend, if you don't like yellow or white, just take 1 of each off and add 1 more cool blue and 1 more royal blue

You don't think this would be too mouthwashy? I read a line from Evil saying that CB can take over fast. He recommended a mix of 9 RB to 3 CB, and that's without the cyan LEDs.

 

From my own experience you can most likely grow any sps or corals with just blue light, now i'm not saying the color or growth would be stellar but IMO it is possible to grow coral with no Neutral white or Cool white

It wouldn't be eye pleasing at all, considering you'd have a purple/blue/cyan looking tank, you kindof need some cool white and neutral white to blend it out to a degree

I definitely want to have some white in the mix, but am wondering if I can get away without the CWs and only have NWs. What do you think?

[sandcruiser]

just curious: have you considered adding in some t5 or pc lighting?

 

I know that LEDs are the rage right now, and I do like them. But it seems like many of the spectrum-related issues could be mitigated by simply adding in a little bit of floro light.

 

as for moonlight: what about looking at cold-cathode light(s)? You could mount just one, forward of your LED array (in the same hood) and get a reasonably diffuse source of dim blue-white light.

 

FWIW: underwater, the moon's light is shifted even further towards blue. Not as blue as an RB LED.... maybe more like a 20K light (pretty blue).

 

I like your use of phi to distribute the different LEDs. Seems like it will minimize shadowing. Having said that-- I don't see minor shadows as such a bad thing. In real life, you'll often see shadows/splotches of light as the sun is refracted by waves on the surface and shaded by larger corals above.

 

The real trick? How about some sort of control in which your array actually dims/brightens as if the sun were tracking east to west across the sky? *That* would be cool. But probably not necessary.

[Mr. Microscope]

Hello Sandcruiser,

 

Sorry, I've been out of town this week. Thanks for adding all these discussion points. I'm still messing around with the design . I'm on layout mod number 26, and back up to a 24 LED design layout. I've also decided to go with only NW, RB, and CB. The layouts also include TV LEDs, but I haven't made my final decision about that.

 

just curious: have you considered adding in some t5 or pc lighting?

I know that LEDs are the rage right now, and I do like them. But it seems like many of the spectrum-related issues could be mitigated by simply adding in a little bit of floro light.

I like the idea of making a hybrid lighting system. I don't mind replacing a few LEDs once every five years, but I'm really don't want to have to replace bulbs every year. Long live was one off the appeals of LEDs for me. But, it'll be a while before I actually build the thing. I might change and decide to add some supplemental lighting. Thanks for bringing it to mind. I honestly hadn't thought about it before.

 

as for moonlight: what about looking at cold-cathode light(s)? You could mount just one, forward of your LED array (in the same hood) and get a reasonably diffuse source of dim blue-white light.

Cold cathode moon light?! Wow, never considered that. Thanks for the idea! I'm looking into it. Could be a really fun addition. Though, I don't know if it would have the ripple effect that a single point light-source would.

 

FWIW: underwater, the moon's light is shifted even further towards blue. Not as blue as an RB LED.... maybe more like a 20K light (pretty blue).

Also, thanks for the info on how moonlight look underwater. I've been wondering about this. Does that effect only occur in deeper water (greater than 10 feet?). I was wondering if shallow lagoon lighting is closer to white?

 

I like your use of phi to distribute the different LEDs. Seems like it will minimize shadowing. Having said that-- I don't see minor shadows as such a bad thing. In real life, you'll often see shadows/splotches of light as the sun is refracted by waves on the surface and shaded by larger corals above.

Thanks! I've been thinking about a dynamic shaddowing effect lately, and further experimenting with phi. Some of my latest layout designs places the LEDs more of less in a circle. I was thinking about trying to mimic the blending effect of 3up LEDs, and had an array of 6 sets of 3 in a hex pattern. The spacing was perfect to fit one more LED in between each set making the, "set of three trend" continuous throughout the circle (see #26). The problem with this design is that I used up all 24 LEDs to do it and there is a big gap in the middle where the LEDs distance is greater than 2 inches (my minimum distance goal). Though, this hole might make for some interesting lighting/shadowing features. Especially considering I'm planning a center pillar look to the tank.

Here are some images my circular patterns:

The hex designs:

..However.. I've also been considering the fact that I'm getting a square tank and not a circle. So, I've also been looking into a more evenly spread out system. Twenty-four just doen't fit well into a square evenly. I've been thinking about doing a square layout with 25 LEDs, since I recently heard that a MeanWell can actually drive up to 13 (I always thought it was 12 max).

Here are the square designs:

 

The real trick? How about some sort of control in which your array actually dims/brightens as if the sun were tracking east to west across the sky? *That* would be cool. But probably not necessary.

Yes. The more I work on this thing, the more I'm thinking about adding some sort of controller. I've been researching the arduino and thinking about the RKL. The RKL website doesn't mention LED control, but I've seen evil66 mention it.

[nick33063]

Hello Sandcruiser,

 

Sorry, I've been out of town this week. Thanks for adding all these discussion points. I'm still messing around with the design . I'm on layout mod number 26, and back up to a 24 LED design layout. I've also decided to go with only NW, RB, and CB. The layouts also include TV LEDs, but I haven't made my final decision about that.

 

 

I like the idea of making a hybrid lighting system. I don't mind replacing a few LEDs once every five years, but I'm really don't want to have to replace bulbs every year. Long live was one off the appeals of LEDs for me. But, it'll be a while before I actually build the thing. I might change and decide to add some supplemental lighting. Thanks for bringing it to mind. I honestly hadn't thought about it before.

 

 

Cold cathode moon light?! Wow, never considered that. Thanks for the idea! I'm looking into it. Could be a really fun addition. Though, I don't know if it would have the ripple effect that a single point light-source would.

 

 

Also, thanks for the info on how moonlight look underwater. I've been wondering about this. Does that effect only occur in deeper water (greater than 10 feet?). I was wondering if shallow lagoon lighting is closer to white?

 

 

Thanks! I've been thinking about a dynamic shaddowing effect lately, and further experimenting with phi. Some of my latest layout designs places the LEDs more of less in a circle. I was thinking about trying to mimic the blending effect of 3up LEDs, and had an array of 6 sets of 3 in a hex pattern. The spacing was perfect to fit one more LED in between each set making the, "set of three trend" continuous throughout the circle (see #26). The problem with this design is that I used up all 24 LEDs to do it and there is a big gap in the middle where the LEDs distance is greater than 2 inches (my minimum distance goal). Though, this hole might make for some interesting lighting/shadowing features. Especially considering I'm planning a center pillar look to the tank.

Here are some images my circular patterns:

The hex designs:

..However.. I've also been considering the fact that I'm getting a square tank and not a circle. So, I've also been looking into a more evenly spread out system. Twenty-four just doen't fit well into a square evenly. I've been thinking about doing a square layout with 25 LEDs, since I recently heard that a MeanWell can actually drive up to 13 (I always thought it was 12 max).

Here are the square designs:

 

 

Yes. The more I work on this thing, the more I'm thinking about adding some sort of controller. I've been researching the arduino and thinking about the RKL. The RKL website doesn't mention LED control, but I've seen evil66 mention it.

 

I have a nanocustoms 4.6 Cree LED kit on order and a RKL Advanced Lighting Controler (ALC) on order. The RKL-ALC can control LED's using two Dim ports A and B that are 0-10v and can dim LED's. The RKL-ALC can also ramp up and ramp down the lights to simulate sunrise and sunset.

 

The Advanced Light Function has the following parameters:

 

Ramp: (0-250) This is in minutes, and represents the time it will take to go from 0% intensity, to the max intensity you set.

Intensity: (0-100) What percentage you would like the lighting to be at the height of dimming up. That is, if you set it to 50, it will be at 50% of the light's total power by the end of the ramp.

Temp: (6,10,12,15, 20, 25K) This relates specifically to AquaIllumination lighting, to change the color temperature.

Timer: This is to associate the function with a Timer, such that it is activated by the chosen Timer's settings. At the start of the Timer, the unit will Ramp up for the set duration, to the intensity that you choose. It will then stay on until the Timer ends, at which point it will Ramp back down for the same set duration.

 

As an example:

 

Ramp: 60

Intensity: 100

Temp: None

Timer: 01

 

Timer 01 is programmed as such:

DOW: SMTWTFS

Start: 12:00:00PM

Time On: 02:00:00

 

With this programming, the lights will begin ramping at 12:00PM, for one hour (60 minutes). At the end of the hour they will be at full intensity (100%). The Timer is set for 2 hours total. At the end of the 2 hours (2:00PM) the lights will dim back down for 60 minutes, ending at 0% (off) at 3:00PM.

[Mr. Microscope]

Awesome information there! Thanks Nick. I'll have to take another look at that.

 

 

Edit: Okay, so I just looked into that. I see that you need to buy both the RKL and ALC Module. That's about $200. I was thinking about shelling out the $100 for the RKL, but grrr.