Cannot get Mg to raise

[Pyrocide]

Ok so i have had a magnesium problem for a couple months now.

 

Tank specs:

 

29H

20G fuge

 

Corals:

assorted zoas/palys

Meat coral

Indo Acan

Maze Brain

Cynaria Brain

Pink leather

Yellow Fiji leather

Toadstool

Colt Coral

Aussie Elegance

Hammers

Frogspawn

Giant featherduster

Sunset Monti frag

Assorted mushrooms

Assorted ric's

Xenia

 

Fish:

3x Firefish

2x O. Clowns

Sixline Wrasse

 

Inverts:

~4 red/blue leg hermits

30+ Nassarius

10+ Astrea

Fireshrimp

Peppermint Shrimp

Anemone Crab

 

Filtration:

Polyfilter

Cuprisorb

Phoslock

Cheato

ProClear 100G Skimmer (Ordered Reef Octopus 4)

 

Mg sits steadily around 750

 

Params

pH 8.1

Sal 1.025-26

Ammonia 0

Phosphates 0

Nitrate 0

Nitrite 0

Calcium 490

kH 7

 

It all started going downhill after the addition of the colt and the assorted zoa frags (the zoas were colonies ranging from quarter size of Watermelons to 3" dia. colony of Yellow Hornets) i picked up from a LFS. Before my alk was at 9, and mg was around 1300-1400 (after WC) I have been dosing ESV Mg for 2 weeks and C-Balance Part 2 (the alk part) for about a week and it is not budging. Both i am dosing the maximum daily limit every morning at 630 and testing it. Weekly 5G w/c with Reef Crystals. I feed Spirulina, NLS and target feed the acans, hammers/frog and meat coral with PEMysis.

 

I am testing alk with the API test kit and the Mg with the Red Sea test kit.

 

Can anyone explain the huge drop in alk and Mg and what is consuming the Mg this fast? And any suggestions on how to fix it.

[Steve-O21]

Try a different Mg test kit and see what the results are. That is not a very good test kit. Iv'e used it before.

[Pyrocide]

Try a different Mg test kit and see what the results are. That is not a very good test kit. Iv'e used it before.

 

Salifert?

[gabe_j]

elos is pretty darn accurate.

[Pyrocide]

elos is pretty darn accurate.

 

After a quick search there were some problems with the 1 drop = 100 or 75ppm.

 

Has that been fixed?

[Amphiprion1]

Not sure if that has been fixed. I had to call in with my lot # to verify which was which. At any rate, usually the only explanation for a drop like that, short of a bad test, is a precipitation event. You may be slightly overdosing your 2 part. Back off on the dose altogether and see what happens. You should notice the sudden drops start to taper off. During this time, as you test and observe, manually dose for only one particular parameter. Start with magnesium and get it into line. Use the calculator here, as it normally takes a lot of magnesium: http://reef.diesyst.com/flashcalc/flashcalc.html

 

Once magnesium is in order, try carefully boosting the alkalinity. Once they are both raised, begin maintenance doses, but smaller than what you had.

 

Again, all of this assumes the test kit is NOT to blame. I would get that verified before doing anything.

[Pyrocide]

Not sure if that has been fixed. I had to call in with my lot # to verify which was which. At any rate, usually the only explanation for a drop like that, short of a bad test, is a precipitation event. You may be slightly overdosing your 2 part. Back off on the dose altogether and see what happens. You should notice the sudden drops start to taper off. During this time, as you test and observe, manually dose for only one particular parameter. Start with magnesium and get it into line. Use the calculator here, as it normally takes a lot of magnesium: http://reef.diesyst.com/flashcalc/flashcalc.html

 

Once magnesium is in order, try carefully boosting the alkalinity. Once they are both raised, begin maintenance doses, but smaller than what you had.

 

Again, all of this assumes the test kit is NOT to blame. I would get that verified before doing anything.

 

I didnt begin dosing the part 2 until after i had been dosing the Mg for a week or so. Ill stop the alk dosing, and see what happens. The only problem is that the magnesium doesnt seem to move, no matter the amount i dose or when i water change. I am probably going to get a new test in the next few days. And see if that is to blame.

 

Any other suggestions as to the sudden drop?

[Bill Nye]

I didnt begin dosing the part 2 until after i had been dosing the Mg for a week or so. Ill stop the alk dosing, and see what happens. The only problem is that the magnesium doesnt seem to move, no matter the amount i dose or when i water change. I am probably going to get a new test in the next few days. And see if that is to blame.

 

Any other suggestions as to the sudden drop?

 

 

Precipitation is really the only thing that would explain a mag that low unless your test kit is crap....although that could the cause because ive heard the red sea mag test is not accurate at all. The first thing I would do before I start dosing all over the place was pick up a salifert mag test. Thats what I use and I find it to be very accurate and you dont have to count drops which is very awesome.

 

Looking at your calc and alk levels though..it seems to me that you have an imbalance. This happened to be but in reverse. I was using regular instant ocean and I could not get my calc level to rise no matter how much I dosed because my alk was at 11 and my mag was at 1000. You need to solve you mag problem first and then go about fixing your other problems. Once your mag is fixed you other levels will come into line. Good luck.

[Amphiprion1]

I didnt begin dosing the part 2 until after i had been dosing the Mg for a week or so. Ill stop the alk dosing, and see what happens. The only problem is that the magnesium doesnt seem to move, no matter the amount i dose or when i water change. I am probably going to get a new test in the next few days. And see if that is to blame.

 

Any other suggestions as to the sudden drop?

 

How much are you adding? According to the calculator, it would require you to add somewhere on the order of 1.7 bottles of magnesium to get the level where you need it. You can raise your tank by about 50 ppm per day safely (others say up to 100 is acceptable). That would mean you should add ~150 mL per day to meet that kind of increase, which would take about 11 days, if your tests are correct. Any less than that and it will take forever.

[Pyrocide]

I ran out of the 32oz bottle this morning and started dosing last Monday. So roughly...3oz a day which is ~88ml a day.

 

How can a remedy the precipitation if indeed that is the problem?

[Amphiprion1]

I ran out of the 32oz bottle this morning and started dosing last Monday. So roughly...3oz a day which is ~88ml a day.

 

How can a remedy the precipitation if indeed that is the problem?

 

Stop dosing and wait for a few days for it to settle down. If you keep trying to dose, you'll only exacerbate the problem. Also, check your pumps and your sand. I had an issue in another tank where the sand clumped no matter what I did to control it. I eventually pitched the sand and stopped dosing. It finally stopped and I was able to maintain calcium and alkalinity.

[Pyrocide]

you lost me.

 

what would the pumps and sand have to do with the water chemistry, minus the obvious of sand carrying detritus causing nitrates and ammonia?

 

I have a brand new rio 2500 pump, hydor evolution 1 and a hydor korallia 3.

 

My sand bed ranges from 3-4" all over the tank and i have about 60lbs of LR.

[Amphiprion1]

you lost me.

 

what would the pumps and sand have to do with the water chemistry, minus the obvious of sand carrying detritus causing nitrates and ammonia?

 

I have a brand new rio 2500 pump, hydor evolution 1 and a hydor korallia 3.

 

My sand bed ranges from 3-4" all over the tank and i have about 60lbs of LR.

 

Heat from the pumps causes a localized area that is great for precipitation (edit: in the housing itself). Severe amounts of it will start building if you are overdosing. Sand can also act as a catalyst for precipitation, causing severe clumping in various areas when there is overdosing. It essentially turns sections of sand into bricks. The clumps can continue to accumulated calcium carbonate, continually dropping the concentrations over time.

[Pyrocide]

Heat from the pumps causes a localized area that is great for precipitation (edit: in the housing itself). Severe amounts of it will start building if you are overdosing. Sand can also act as a catalyst for precipitation, causing severe clumping in various areas when there is overdosing. It essentially turns sections of sand into bricks. The clumps can continue to accumulated calcium carbonate, continually dropping the concentrations over time.

 

 

I regularly clean my pumps, lines and housings. The sand is still grainy. There is a fine layer of dust and sediment though in the pumps section of my refugium, but it has almost no weight and just moving my hand gently over it causes it to cloud up. Could that be a problem?

 

I really dont want to have to break down my tank and chunk my sand. Is there anyway to prove that precipitation is occuring in my tank without tearing down the tank?

[Amphiprion1]

I regularly clean my pumps, lines and housings. The sand is still grainy. There is a fine layer of dust and sediment though in the pumps section of my refugium, but it has almost no weight and just moving my hand gently over it causes it to cloud up. Could that be a problem?

 

I really dont want to have to break down my tank and chunk my sand. Is there anyway to prove that precipitation is occuring in my tank without tearing down the tank?

 

If you don't have clumping in the sand, the sand isn't the culprit. No need to get rid of it. The sediment in the sump is more likely detritus than anything. It can be a problem if there is nothing to process it as it accumulates. That is why many people tend to vacuum it out. I don't, but most of the detritus I have is the highly processable plant-based kind ("real" detritus, by definition). The quantity in my sump waxes and wanes with 'pod populations.

[Pyrocide]

I thought about adding a mexican turbo snail or two in the pumps section of the fuge to remove it.

 

The amount has slowed down tremendously with the addition of the poly filter.

 

So other than me getting a new test kit, either elos or salifert, theres really nothing i can do at this point?

[Amphiprion1]

I thought about adding a mexican turbo snail or two in the pumps section of the fuge to remove it.

 

The amount has slowed down tremendously with the addition of the poly filter.

 

So other than me getting a new test kit, either elos or salifert, theres really nothing i can do at this point?

 

Rather, there is nothing you should do at this point. I know it's tempting to try to fix a problem, but that is like running off half-cocked. You could cause more harm than good, otherwise.

[disaster999]

1.) throw the redsea away, get salifert or elos mg test kit

 

2.) stop dosing at the manufactures suggested maximum daily dose and start using a reef calculator to find out how much of the stuff you need to dose to get your current levels to your targeted levels. then divide that amount in 2-3 days

 

what Mg supplement are you using? how much are you dosing it a day? it takes ALOT of Mg supplement to raise the levels in your tank. following the maximum dosage on the bottle will take weeks for you to see a change.

[Pyrocide]

1.) throw the redsea away, get salifert or elos mg test kit

 

2.) stop dosing at the manufactures suggested maximum daily dose and start using a reef calculator to find out how much of the stuff you need to dose to get your current levels to your targeted levels. then divide that amount in 2-3 days

 

what Mg supplement are you using? how much are you dosing it a day? it takes ALOT of Mg supplement to raise the levels in your tank. following the maximum dosage on the bottle will take weeks for you to see a change.

 

Gonna hit LFS for Salifert test kit.

 

I have a few calculators for dosing.

 

I was using Seachem and then was suggested to give ESV a try. I used the 32oz bottle in less than 2 weeks.

[disaster999]

if you can get this locally...try brightwell powder magnesium. careful when mixing that with RO water. it creates a lot of hot steam.

[bird]

I had problem when I first started a tank last year and couldn't keep the mag level up so started using Seachem advantage magnesium

. This brought it too level and once it stabilized for a couple weeks I switched to Brightwell magnesion liquid and has stayed in range since.

[Chyendra]

I second Disasters suggestions. The Red Sea Mg test is really inaccurate. I think I was way overdosing MG because the test kit would start turning purple at 1200 so I thought that was the reading, but then if I kept putting drops in it would turn back to pink and not turn blue until it was in the 2100 range!! I don't know which to believe but I'm waiting for my Salifert kit to arrive before I dose anymore Mg

[Pyrocide]

I second Disasters suggestions. The Red Sea Mg test is really inaccurate. I think I was way overdosing MG because the test kit would start turning purple at 1200 so I thought that was the reading, but then if I kept putting drops in it would turn back to pink and not turn blue until it was in the 2100 range!! I don't know which to believe but I'm waiting for my Salifert kit to arrive before I dose anymore Mg

 

 

Well tested my mag with salifert and it was at 1410.

 

My kH is at 10

 

and Ca is at 420....

 

Red sea's sucks...tell me my mag is at 800 when its almost 600 ppm more.

 

Once i get my ca stable im just going to down mg and ca where needed.

[Chyendra]

I'm glad you figured out the problem and that it was an easy solution 1420 isn't really too bad. Some people raise their mg to almost 1600 if they are trying to kill bryopsis algae. 420 is pretty good for Ca too.

[Pyrocide]

well with my salt my mg comes out at 1370 and Ca at 480. So I think it will even itself out over time, as long as my tank doesnt go into a chemical warfare.

 

Picked up a sour apple birdnest frag to go along with my sunset monti to test my LED lighting and growth for corals.

 

Started a photo journal and will post select picture in my Members setup thread.