Kalwaser concern

[bearwithfish]

i started dosing Kalwaser 2 days ago as my Cal and Alk are both low i felt this was the way to go after much research and a few calls to people i know i build a 1 gallon drip and set it to 1 drop per 2-3 seconds and let it rock for a little over 24 hours when done i let it sit for another 4-5 hours and tested my water... no change from the last time i tested (before dosing)... i found this odd and as this actually put me over my comfort zone for water level in the sump i had a new plan and wanted to see what peoples thoughts were...

i am due for a water change in two days any how so i thought to do it early

instead of taking out 4 gallons and putting 4 gallons in i thought i would remove 6 gallons of slightly higher salinity then drip in 1 gallon of Kalwaser and test if still low drip in another gallon and test again

according to the three calculators i have used i am supposed to add 3 gallons so i was wondering if i should draw off 8 replace with 4 higher salinity and drip 3 (i am trying to get rid of a gallon of excess)

 

thoughts? ideas?

[AZDesertRat]

I have never used kalk but I do know when adding either a calcium reactor or feeding two part, you should get your CA and ALK to the correct levels before starting the supplement. This gives you a baseline to monitor from so you can easily see if it goes up or down and you an then adjust accordingly. Reactors are not intended to raise levels significantly, only to maintain what you start out at.

[bearwithfish]

i was under the impression adding the Kalk was in fact going to increase my levels as the reason i am dosing in the first pace is they are low.... this is what all of my reading over the last month has shown at any rate. How else would you suggest raising the Cal and Alk to more comfortable levels?

 

also note its not a reactor its a simple DIY drip

[Aquanist]

ALL of my top-off water is 100% kalkwasser boosted with a little Mg. My Ca levels are ateady 500.

 

However I have no idea why you got such readings. Tried to redo the test? Tesk kit gone bad?

[AZDesertRat]

Get some two part and supplement the levels until they are within range. Then start your drip and adjust it up or down to stay within that range. Always start out where you want to be.

[bearwithfish]

no i am sure the test is good 1st its only a month old 2nd i tested sump and DT and got the same numbers

 

my number have been stable over the last 1.5 months and now that i am sure all others are stable i wanted to adjust this one...

my DT is 50 gallon breeder

my sump is 20 long (15 gallon actual volume)

let me list last test results here

Ph -8.0 to 8.3 (night versus day)

NH3 - 0

No2 - 0

Cal - 360

dKH - 8

 

as KH and Cal are low i felt Kal was the right choice to boost it up..

i am using the picking lime 1 table spoon per gallon of water and 1/4 cup vinegar to aid in solubility

after mixing i let sit for 8 hours to settle and then started the drip....

 

really add 2 part as well?? i thought that would OD my system

[AZDesertRat]

Add the two part long enough to get your CA and ALK to the desired level. Then you can start on the kalk drip and possibly discontinue the two part. It all depends on demand.

 

What salt mix are you using and how large and often do you do water changes? If your demand is not high you may be able to maintain levels with a good salt mix alone.

[bearwithfish]

i use instant ocean (purple bag) and have never had higher readings than those listed... typically i do a 4 gallon w/c each week but from time to time i let it go two weeks...(we try to do all the tanks at the same time) as for demand my stock is;

15 head Palythoa

5 head palythoa

2 frags GSP (1"x1")

2 small Zoa frags (about 6-10 heads each)

1 purple mush room

2 domino damsels

1 blue damsel

1 blue yellow tail damsel

5 really big snails

5 small hermit crabs

 

in such a large tank with i would consider this a fairly light Bio load and small Cal demand....

[AZDesertRat]

Your biggest problem is the IO salt, its famous for low calcium. I use Oceanic alone which has very high calcium but a little weak on alkalinity or a blend of Oceanic and IO in all my tanks and never supplement my 16G nano and am haven't been using my calcium reactor on my 100G SPS/LPS dominated system lately and the levels are still acceptable.

Try IO-Reef Crystals or Oceanic, you will be much happier since both are designed for reef systems while IO is more a fish only salt.

[bearwithfish]

great i will look at it after this bag is gone or as you have i may mix them.... as i need such large adjustments that i would like to work on now what products do you recommend to get the calcium up around 420 or so and my dKH to about 10 or 11???

 

and in case i seem stubborn i am just trying to be very clear as i already crashed the 29 gallon i started with due to not fully understanding a few things. with this one i am going slower and being as clear as possible with my choices.. as you can see even with a month of research i was unclear and will continue to gather info before the next addition of anything (other than my W/C which is mixed at the house already)

[AZDesertRat]

Reefkeeping Magazine has a lot of good articles on CA and Alk as does Advanced Aquarist and others.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/...ature/index.php

http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2002/chem.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alkalinity.htm

[bearwithfish]

thanx

[AZDesertRat]

Check out the various articles on salt brands too like this one:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav...Impressions.htm

[bearwithfish]

interesting i have read some of those articles in the past.. i will read them slower at home this evening...would you happen to have the link to Rany's two part mix? i dont recall how to make the Cal. mix and i wanted to buy the stuff on the way home to get things up...

[bearwithfish]

i wanted to give an update

 

using three calculators i determined that the following is the method i will use (did use)

draw off 8 gallons of water from the system

mixed 4 gallons of salt water and add it back in

mixed up two gallons of Kalk and add half on a fast drip (2.5 hours) and put the rest in at a slow drip as needed

needed one more gallon of water for the system to be where i wanted it so mixed on more gallon with heavy salinity

added it in to the system..

after 3 hours i tested my water and got the following resaults

PH - 8.6

Cal - 420 (YEAHHHHHH)

Alk - 10 (YEAHHHHHH)

 

so i turned off the slow drip and will now only add in kalwaser as needed for top off...

i will be testing these three things daily to ensure that i am not getting a first dose reading that falls off.... should this happen i will address it further....

 

thank you all for the help

[ulver982]

I wouldn't get to caught up in trying to get CA/alk levels perfect. If you're not careful you can easily overdose a system, especially with kalk. Desertrat is right, you should't use kalk to raise your levels, you should be using it to maintain stable levels. I wouldn't think you would have to dose kalk in your system, your corals are not very demanding for ca/alk. Do you have a lot of coralline algae? Choosing a good salt mix and maybe increasing the amount of water you change at once should keep your levels in the acceptable range. If you really want to dose, you might even be better off with using dosing pumps and a 2 part solution, such as whats available at bulk reef supply.

 

In my 16gallon, I change 4-5 gallons weekly and my CA is about 440-460 and my alk is 7-8. I do add a bit of alkalinity (only half the recommended dose) every 2-3 days. Those levels are fine with me and my corals look great and have coralline algae growth.

[bearwithfish]

BTW i am a self proclaimed stubborn PITA in case you did not know LOL but i am learning and by learning i mean take every ones advice mix it with the reading i have done and attempt the thing one time inthe safest way possible and se what happens.. if failure then i go back and learn more... this Cal and Alk issue being the newest addition to my learning...

AZDesertRat - my deepest apologies if i seems a bit thick headed and well thats that of course i went and read all those posts after my attempt at correction

i used vinegar to cut back the PH issue with using kalk and it was a good try but after 24 hours the levels dropped again so i will in fact take the advice you gave and go with a 2 part to get things in order... i found the randy page that gives the directions and am buying the cal next Friday and as i have the baking soda i am all set there....

again i am learning some times i just need to attempt a thing once to get it out of my head...

[AZDesertRat]

Check you magnesium level too, it goes hand in hand with calcium and without the correct magnesium you will fight calcium levels.

[bearwithfish]

ordering the test Friday....

i thin kthe best course of action right now will be as follows

LEAVE IT THE HELL ALONE!!!!!!!!

after this bag of salt is gone start water changes with reef crystals

as i get things moving in that area use a 2 part to get the levels i want and then Kalk to maintain (told ya slow learner)

in time all will be well

but as my original number are not bad for the current population i will just let it rock ATM