b_artman Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 im doing my research for fish that id like to introduce into my 10 gallon tank. i was originally going to keep just 2 false perc clowns but now im realy thinking about having different species. ive been reading about the firefish and royal gramma and they both seem to be fish that enjoy sitting around in one area, not swim around all the time. keeping in mind their habits would it be possible to keep these two plus a clown in a 10 gallon tank? the goby and gramma are listed as growing between 1-3 inches and the clown another 2-4 inches. i would obviously be pushing the limit of the tank and the bioload could be quite high, but with weekly water changes and good live rock filtration along with a good clean up crew, i might be ok. what do you all think? along with that thought, would these fish even get along together? Link to comment
f355gtb Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 I have a 10 Gal. with 2 Occeleris Clowns & a Sand Sifting Goby. I water change 10% every 4 or 5 days and top off daily with RO/DI water. Everything is fine in the tank with those fish. When I introduced the goby there wasn't a spike in Ammonia, Nitrate/ite. The fish don't bother one another either. BTW I have about 20 lbs. LR & 3" sand bed, with 2 powerheads & a CPR bakPak2 skimmer. IMO those fish would be fine in your tank with weekly water changes. HTH. John Link to comment
b_artman Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 thanks for the response:) still doing more research but so far so good! Link to comment
Tempest Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 The fish you mentioned should do fine. Just keep up on the water changes (at least weekly), don't overfeed and make sure you have 15-20lbs live rock with a lot of surface area exposed (1 big heavy chunk won't do you any good.) And keep a lid on the tank. Firefish are crazy jumpers. Link to comment
zizmans Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Absolutely not, do not listen to f355. Not many ppl have seen full grown percs or occelaris before. They get alot bigger than you think, and quite fat! I wuoldn't put a pair with a goby in anything less than a 20. In fact it's what I have in my 20. You should absolutely not keep anymore than 1 fish in a 10 g tank. 10 is WAY too small for a pair of clowns. 2nd (besides tank size) although royal gramma and firefish are for the most part calm, they will aggressively defend hiding place, which as Im sure you know, they both need alot of. Also there are more than 1 type of firefish so you should probably be more specific (not that it matters). My advice would be to get just the royal gramma, you could also check out dottybacks, there aer many beautiful small ones. But again 1 fish or get a bigger tank! Link to comment
jmt Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 The 5ga per 1 inch rule is just a basic guideline. Sure you don't want to cram a butt-load of fish into a small space, but a few fish that don't do a whole lot of swimming or stay in different columns of the tank should be fine. My 10ga currently has 1 false perc (1.5" long) and 1 strawberry basslet (1.5" long). They get along just fine and I might introduce something else into the tank, but probabaly not. Just think about the water columns they swim in. And by water column, I mean top, middle, or bottom. Clowns go all over the place, but I hardly see a gramma near the surface it seems like. If you're dead set on a pair of clowns, I'd go for a watchmen goby or some other peaceful bottom swimmer. -Justin Link to comment
b_artman Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 opps.. sorry didnt mean to confuse. im not planning on getting the pair of clowns AND the other two fish. let me rephrase the first plan which is now being seriously reconsidered: - 2 small false percs introduced at the same time and thats it. my new idea is to instead have differenst species of fish: 1 firefish goby 1 royal gramma 1 false perc introduced in that order. here is why i was thinking they should be ok: - the firefish goby is said to pick a bolt hole and hover near it and not swim all over the place - royal gramma apparantly follows similar patterns although it tends to sit inside a hole most of the time coming out to feed - the false perc swims all around but does not hide inside holes from these characteristics picked up from other websites i thought they would be ok because they should not be getting in each others space to much. the firefish should pick a hole under the rock right near the sand, while the royal gramma should be hiding inside the rock, hence in a higher portion of the tank, while the perc swims in open water away from those two territories. the rock that i have right now actually has all sorts of openings and passage ways which should be providing the bolt holes for the gramma and goby. is this information correct? and if not can you comment further? thanks everyone so far! Link to comment
jmt Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 If you introduce them all within a week or so, you should not have a big problem with agression/territory. I would definately introduce the clown last, so good thinking. zizmans - Not to be a d!ck, but if I'm wrong, please correct me and tell me why. I did countless hours of research, reading up on other peoples conclusions/experiences which led me to arrive at the point I stated in my post. If you can keep a fish fat and happy, then you're doing a great job. Think about it. You could easily keep 3 1.5" Clown Gobies in a 10ga. Now with the 5ga per 1 inch rule, you'd technically need 20+ gallons. That is just rediculous. If the fish can all coexist with one another, then there isn't a problem. -Justin Link to comment
Steve973 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I'm pretty much a newb, but do you really want to introduce 3 fish into a 10 gallon tank all at once? Link to comment
birdman204 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 OK. a gramma , will swim all over the tank, and is easily spooked as is the firefish. The clown, once established , is a member of the damsel family, and will bother your other tank mates. On top of that , the amount of food needed to feed these 3 fish would turn yuor tank into a hair algae farm in just a few weeks. Not to mention the fish stressed out from territory wars. they may find a hiding spot and defend it, but it is not 1 single cave. Their habitat may encompass numerous square feet on a reef face for feeding. They DO NOT pick a cave and hang out all day. My gramma OWNED the minibow, would chase the shrimp out of anywhere it was. The firefish will jump when the gramma starts darting around. My guess, is if you get all 3, the gramma will die first from stress, the firefish will jump out when you are not there or stress out and die cuz It can't escape. You may get all 3, but you will probably end up with just a perc. This is a REALLY bad idea unless you don't care about the fish ( btw the hobby will continue on a downward environmental spiral if people continue to buy and kill fish). I am not trying to be mean, I am just trying to save you money. If you have the $ buy 1 helfrinches firefish. They are the best colored ones, and super rare. Again, not to be a jerkbut are there any other reasons needed not to get 3 fish for a 10g or do Ziz and I need to continue? Link to comment
b_artman Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 thanks for the post birdman. i didnt think you where being a jerk at all. its very good to get all the information from several sources. the sites i read had not mentioned these details you spoke off so the more i gather the better the decision is. thanks for the input! im continuing reading about these fish and others and am leaning towards cutting one fish out of the equation and perhaps gonig with two of some sort. at the moment i think ill be excluding the royal gramma from further lists. would you think the firefish and clown could get along? Link to comment
AReeferIsExpensive Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Then how come is it that i see SO many people with beautiful, successful nano-reefs in 10-15 gs and they have 4-5 fish?? Link to comment
cookiemn Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 b_artman, remember to take the advice you get anywhere with a grain of salt. Personally, I slightly disagree with jmt on adding that many fish in a 10 gallon. I had a 15 tall and had the same amount of fish, without any issues. Would I do that in a 10? Doubtful, but that is my gut feeling. Part of reef keeping deals with maintenance and luck. I am assuming that jmt does his maintenance religiously and is able to keep his load without a problems. But that is jmt, you may be different. Add what you think your tank can hold. If your wrong, you'll have to deal with it, period. On another note, I think that zizmans should back up why he thinks jmt is wrong instead of making open ended statements without any logic to back it up. Now back to your regulary scheduled program.... Link to comment
f355gtb Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Zizmans, from my experience & countless others I have read about, those fish do fine in a well maintained 10 gal. I appreciate your respect for the animals but they are healthy & happy in my aquarium. If they weren't they would be moved to one of my other aquariums. John Link to comment
f355gtb Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Remember that fish of same type can & will have different demeanors. Damsels for the most part are territorial, but there are some that are fine community fish. Some flame angels will nip at corals while others won't bother them. My two occelericis clowns didn't care when I introduced the goby. But some O. clowns may react differently. And cookiemn hit it on the head: you have to keep a very regular maintenance practice. I do and don't have any hair algae or cyano. HTH. John Link to comment
birdman204 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 b_artman. The firesfish will do fine in that tank. He may even live good with a percula, If you want a different type of goby, that depends on what kind you want. Obviously any of the dragonets are out of the Question unless you have a 40 gallon fuge attached to your 10G and even some like randalls goby may not fare well as they pick thru the substrate. It really is eventually up to the reefers wallet and conscience as to what he/she wants in her/his tank. I think with a lid, the firefish and a clown MAY work, BUt hey, I don't keep fish in my nano, so don't ask me J/K I think there are few fish suitable for a nano. Neon, green banded or sharknose gobies stay under 1.5 inches, but will fit if more than one are together... so again check your wallet , check you conscience, then make your decision. Link to comment
b_artman Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 thanks for all the replies everyone! lots of valuable information here! i think ive decided to go with 1 firefish goby and a perc. having read quite a bit over that past few days, i dont think i want to risk too much chemical swings associated with a huge bioload. i have read about tanks that appear to be overstocked but doing extremely well(including the reefcentral TOTM) but i think ill take it easy and just go with the two. im continuing reading up on different gobies and will be making my purchase in a week or so. thanks again! Link to comment
birdman204 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 start with the firefish.... Maybe look into the helfrinches if you have the bling. You may end up being happy with just him. Link to comment
nanocat Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I have a pair of a.percula and a clown goby in my 12g. nano. Everybody is happy. The clowns swim together and sleep together in a corner of the tank. The clown has too main homes, around the top of the tank in a sinularia, or in the opposite corner between some frogspawn. In the midst of all this is a speedy little royal dottyback who gets along fine with everyone, but I'd like to relocate him to another tank (4 is really too many fish !). First I have to figure out a way to trap him...he's too smart for any nets. I guess I'll try the inverted soda bottle, good bait, trick. I do a 2.5g. waterchange weekly, and try not to overfeed. Link to comment
TheUltimateNoob Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 3 fish is way too many to keep in a 10 gallon tank for sure. I'd stick with just one. Maybe 2 but that's pushing it. First of all, in a 10 gallon tank, there isn't much space at all so all that talk about not bothering each other is not necessarily true. They will eventually be conflict when they grow. Secondly, you have to think about the fish when they are full grown. All those fish will grow to at least 3 inches at least. And if you want to use that 1 inch of fish per 2 gallons, you'd need a 20 gallon tank. So even though they are 1 inch or so right now, they will grow. Also, the bioload would be huge. We're not talking about 10 gallons of water here. If you count the live rock and all the substrate, we're talking more like 7 gallons. So 3 fish, that will grow, and become increasingly territorial, and live in 7 gallons of water? I wouldn't recommend it. Link to comment
birdman204 Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 And theultimatenoob fields the question perfectly. Are you sure you are a newb Link to comment
Jahkaya Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Bioload can be handled with a skimmer, fuge, lots of LR, and aggressive water changes. The fact that adult clowns can be very mean and territorial cannot. If you are set on your pair just be sure to keep the water quality immaculate. If you must have a third fish, keep in mind that the Clown pair may kill it or it may die from stress in the long run. There are cool gobies that stay 1.5 inches, but it is a definite stretch. If you were not a newb I wouldn't worry too much, but then again you are posting your quesions in the begginers forum. Link to comment
b_artman Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 as stated by me earlier i am no longer going to keep 3 fish, or two clowns. the plan is to get 1 firefish goby and then later 1 percula clown for a total of 2 fish, and with regular water changes to keep bio load in control. Link to comment
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