Aegeon's 25G Cube Build

[Zer0]

That rock definitely looks awesome. Any updates?

[malibukay]

very impressive, i really wish i had talent to do all that diy stuff!

[Mr. Microscope]

Hello Aegeon,

 

Thanks for posting such an amazingly educational thread on your build. I just read through the whole thing. I'm also planning a Mr. Aqua cube, but was planning to make it an AIO. After seeing your entries on drilling, I think I might attempt it. Also, great build on the LEDs! I'm planning to build some myself eventually. I can't wait to see how everything works out for you. Good luck!

[Kylebeano]

You have a very remarkable build. Very unique and yet emulates/excells beyond, a very high end tank (elos, etc.). Kudos!

Get to acclimating yourself into the new place so you can do the same for the tank! Can't wait to see this tank with some aquascaping.

[Aegeon]

Back from the dead?

 

It's been about a year and a half since I worked on this build or posted in this forum. This build ended when my wife and I moved from downtown Chicago to a rental house in the burbs. Between my 9-to-5, the demands of our baby (who's just shy of 2 years old now) and the space constraints of our tiny rental house, I just never got back to the build.

 

Well, a lot has happened since then. We had our second little boy, named Jacob, about 3 months ago. We also just moved into a new, larger house where we should be set for at least a year or two. During the move, I dug out all the aquarium stuff from this unfinished build, and I've set aside a little space in our new dining room to finally get it put together. I'm hoping to pick up where I left off. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

One concern I have, and all comments are appreciated: During the year and a half that this build was on hiatus, all my aquarium equipment was stored in an unheated/un-cooled detached garage. This means the tank and sump went through two Chicago winters with no heat, and a full Chicago summer with no AC. The tank has seen multiple weeks of temperatures ranging from below zero to over 100 degrees in the stuffy garage. Anyone know if I should be concerned about the structural integrity of the tanks? I'll be test-filling them in the next few days to make sure they don't currently leak, but assuming they hold water I really don't want a surprise seam failure two weeks from now....

 

Thanks,

 

Aegeon

[Zer0]

Hey! Congrats on the new baby dude!

 

Tbh.. the silicone on your tanks should be fine. But to be safe, just water test them for a couple days and if all looks well, then your good to go. Looking forward to seeing your continuation!

[Aegeon]

Hey! Congrats on the new baby dude!

 

Tbh.. the silicone on your tanks should be fine. But to be safe, just water test them for a couple days and if all looks well, then your good to go. Looking forward to seeing your continuation!

 

Thanks for the congrats and the info on the tanks. I'll be water-testing in a couple days, hopefully. Fingers crossed that I wont have to replace the tanks.

 

Also got caught up on your rimless cube build thread. You've made a ton of progress while I've been away. Looks like a great setup. Sorry about the crash last fall, but it looks like you're recovering! Very interesting reading about it all.

[Aegeon]

We're finally getting settled in the new house, and I've had a few minutes to work on the build. Got my RODI unit set up again in the basement near the laundry tub.

 

 

And, after a year and a half, the tank still holds water! Filled the main tank up last night at 11:00, no signs of any leaks as of this morning. If all looks good when I get home from work tonight, I'm going to assume the tank is fine. I'll test out the sump tank next, just to be sure it's good, too.

 

 

 

Thanks!

[siwelk]

Clean RODI install.

[Zer0]

Clean RODI install.

 

Yeah exactly what I was going to say haha

 

 

Hey thanks for checking up on my tank lol. Yeah, that power outage did a number on my tank and morale, but the tank had survived, even with a few losses, so I wasn't just going to throw in the towel. Now it's really coming back to life.

 

I'll be checking in on you dude. I want to see this tank up and running! Woo!

[Aegeon]

Clean RODI install.

Yeah exactly what I was going to say haha

Thanks, guys. RODI went in pretty easily. Was able to use the faucet adapter to hook up the input line from the laundry tub and route the waste back to the tub, which is nice. I was wary of using a more permanent connections (saddle valves) in a rental house and ticking off the owner. Still need to tie down the waste line, but it's pretty much ready to go. Filters still look good, too. Flushed everything out for about 15 minutes, and now getting 0 TDS at the output.

 

Have some plumbing and sump decisions to make, and some finishing touches in the cabinet, but I'm pushing to get it up and running ASAP. Thanks for following along!

[Aegeon]

Filled the sump tank up, and no leaks. Looks like both tanks will hold water just fine.

 

Last night I managed to get a little work done on the stand, too. Took out one of the power strips in the cabinet as I won't need that many outlets in there. Also drilled some access holes in the back to route the drain and return lines through. Spent some time laying out the equipment in the cabinet and figuring out how the plumbing and wiring should be routed.

 

I've decided to not put baffles in the sump for the time being. There are a couple reasons for this:

 

1. The sump is small, just 7 gallons. Leaving room for backflow when the pumps are off cuts this down to about 5 gallons of water volume, and creating compartments inside it will just cut it down further.

 

2. For simplicity's sake I've decided to not try to do a fuge, so controlling water velocity in the sump is not that important. Eventually, I'd like to do a second cabinet for a remote fuge, gfo/carbon reactor, etc.

 

3. I want to see how the system runs, where bubbles are generated, etc. If there are problems that baffles could solve, I want to make them as an "insert" that I can slide into the sump and remove for cleaning.

 

4. Not dealing with baffles lets me get the system up and running faster.

 

I still need to put a little silicone around the joints inside the stand to hopefully contain any little spills that happen in there. Then, with any luck, I'll be moving the stand and equipment up to its new location tonight.

 

Once the stand is in place, I can run all the plumbing and set up all the sump equipment and test her out. I have few questions, so please feel free to chime in:

 

Q1. Can I use tap water for testing out the plumbing? I want to fill the system to check the water levels, look for leaks, etc, then drain it and move the stand/tank to its final position up against the wall. I'd rather not have to make and pour out 30 gallons of RODI, but also don't want to contaminate the system from the get-go if tap water is a bad idea. Thoughts?

 

Q2. When placing rock, do people still use that plastic light diffuser/egg crate stuff below it to protect the bottom glass of the tank? I seem to remember from way back when that people did this, do they still? Any pros/cons?

 

Q3. Should I put foam under the display tank? I have a sheet of 1/4" black neoprene that I bought way back when to put under the tank, but I'm reconsidering whether this is necessary since the surface of the stand is pretty much dead flat. If I level the stand correctly, is foam under the tank necessary?

 

Q4. What brand/size substrate should I get? What's best for burrowing inverts/fish like gobys?

 

Q5. I looked through the test kits I bought back when I started the build, and some are close to expiration or have just expired (December 2011). How exact are these expiration dates? Could I still use the kits to monitor levels while cycling the tank, or should I pitch them and get new ones?

 

Q6. Anyone in the Chicago area willing to sell a couple pounds of live rock from a clean, established system? I'm using the BRS base rock primarily, but want to get a couple pounds of LR to seed the base rock with. I'm looking around Craigslist, too, but would prefer to get some from an active reefer like you all rather than the anonymous ads I've seen online. Alternatively, anyone know a LFS in the Chicago area that sells live rock that you would trust in your tank?

 

Hopefully, everything will check out and go smoothly. My hope is to have a box of wet rocks this weekend. Wish me luck!

[Zer0]

Filled the sump tank up, and no leaks. Looks like both tanks will hold water just fine.

 

Last night I managed to get a little work done on the stand, too. Took out one of the power strips in the cabinet as I won't need that many outlets in there. Also drilled some access holes in the back to route the drain and return lines through. Spent some time laying out the equipment in the cabinet and figuring out how the plumbing and wiring should be routed.

 

I've decided to not put baffles in the sump for the time being. There are a couple reasons for this:

 

1. The sump is small, just 7 gallons. Leaving room for backflow when the pumps are off cuts this down to about 5 gallons of water volume, and creating compartments inside it will just cut it down further.

 

2. For simplicity's sake I've decided to not try to do a fuge, so controlling water velocity in the sump is not that important. Eventually, I'd like to do a second cabinet for a remote fuge, gfo/carbon reactor, etc.

 

3. I want to see how the system runs, where bubbles are generated, etc. If there are problems that baffles could solve, I want to make them as an "insert" that I can slide into the sump and remove for cleaning.

 

4. Not dealing with baffles lets me get the system up and running faster.

 

I still need to put a little silicone around the joints inside the stand to hopefully contain any little spills that happen in there. Then, with any luck, I'll be moving the stand and equipment up to its new location tonight.

 

Once the stand is in place, I can run all the plumbing and set up all the sump equipment and test her out. I have few questions, so please feel free to chime in:

 

Q1. Can I use tap water for testing out the plumbing? I want to fill the system to check the water levels, look for leaks, etc, then drain it and move the stand/tank to its final position up against the wall. I'd rather not have to make and pour out 30 gallons of RODI, but also don't want to contaminate the system from the get-go if tap water is a bad idea. Thoughts?

 

Q2. When placing rock, do people still use that plastic light diffuser/egg crate stuff below it to protect the bottom glass of the tank? I seem to remember from way back when that people did this, do they still? Any pros/cons?

 

Q3. Should I put foam under the display tank? I have a sheet of 1/4" black neoprene that I bought way back when to put under the tank, but I'm reconsidering whether this is necessary since the surface of the stand is pretty much dead flat. If I level the stand correctly, is foam under the tank necessary?

 

Q4. What brand/size substrate should I get? What's best for burrowing inverts/fish like gobys?

 

Q5. I looked through the test kits I bought back when I started the build, and some are close to expiration or have just expired (December 2011). How exact are these expiration dates? Could I still use the kits to monitor levels while cycling the tank, or should I pitch them and get new ones?

 

Q6. Anyone in the Chicago area willing to sell a couple pounds of live rock from a clean, established system? I'm using the BRS base rock primarily, but want to get a couple pounds of LR to seed the base rock with. I'm looking around Craigslist, too, but would prefer to get some from an active reefer like you all rather than the anonymous ads I've seen online. Alternatively, anyone know a LFS in the Chicago are that sells live rock that you would trust in your tank?

 

Hopefully, everything will check out and go smoothly. My hope is to have a box of wet rocks this weekend. Wish me luck!

 

 

Q1 : I would just test out the plumbing with RO/DI. Having to fill it up with tap water, and seeing that the plumbing works as planned, and then having to empty out the tank and then refill with RO/DI water will ultimately be a waste of your time and labor. Worst comes to worst, you can just empty out SOME of the RO/DI water to fix a plumbing issue, and then replace what you took out after plumbing problem is fixed.

 

Q2 : I haven't seen anyone recently use the light diffuser/eggcrate below their scapes. It's really your choice though. If you choose not to use it, which is totally fine, all you need to do is place your scape on the glass, and then put sand in. Not the other way around. If you put the sand in first and then put the scape on the sand, chances are when water is introduced, the scape will get sucked down and could fall over. Also, if you plan to have ANY burrowing critters in your tank at all, if they burrow underneath your scape and create pockets in the sand, the scape could also fall over.

 

Q3 : If your stand/tank is level, no.

 

Q4 : Sugar sized sand - Oolite - Is the best for burrowing fish/inverts. You could go a little grain size higher, but I personally don't recommend it. The oolite sand is much easier for the fish and inverts to burrow in, and it is softer on the fish's skin/flesh/whatever. If they scrape themselves continuously on the larger grain size by trying to burrow in it, they could risk infecting the wound. Once it's infected, you'll have to treat it, or let it die. With the oolitic sand, you wouldn't have to worry about that.

 

Q5 : Tbh.. I can't say much on this. I use expired test kits lol, because I will never pay for 30 dollar test kits every year or whatever. They seem to read correctly, and all of my livestock are doing great so I don't care much for it. Your choice though.

 

Q6 : I would absolutely cuz I have tons of it in my sump..... but I don't live in Chicago.

 

Good luck to you sir.

[Aegeon]

Didn't get much time last night to work on the build, but I did manage to get the ATO controller and AquaLifter pump mounted inside the stand. Drilled a few access holes in the back panel to route drain/return lines and power cords through the back, and laid out the positions of brackets to hold all the lines in place. Going to wait till everything's upstairs to secure all the plumbing.

 

 

Planning to move everything up to the tank's final location in the dining room tonight, and start making RODI water to get this this filled up!

[Aegeon]

Q1 : I would just test out the plumbing with RO/DI. Having to fill it up with tap water, and seeing that the plumbing works as planned... *snip!*

Thanks for the replies, good info in there. I think I'll ditch the foam under the tank, as well as the egg crate under the rockwork.

 

Jury's still out for me on substrate size. I've heard that it's tough to keep oolitic sand from blowing around the tank because it's so fine. Maybe one grain size larger would be close enough, or perhaps a mix of oolitic and a bit larger? Hmmm...

 

Went back and checked the dates on my test kits again. The Ammonia test expired in November 2011, the Nitrite test expires this month and the Nitrate test in February, so I'm probably ok to at least get through the tank cycle with the tests I have. Even if the Ammonia kit is off a bit, the others should still be accurate enough to watch the cycle run. Maybe I'll grab a new set when I think the cycle is complete, just to double check the results.

 

Still looking for a trustworthy live rock source nearby. Hopefully I can find some this weekend.

 

Good luck to you sir.

Thanks, I may need it. Should start making RODI water tonight to get everything up and running this weekend. Fingers crossed.

[Zer0]

All sounds good dude. The inside of your stand is super clean and organized. Really awesome!

 

As for the oolite, it's really not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Granted if your tank is going to be SPS dominant, then you probably wouldn't want oolitic sand unless it's a very large tank. Still though, you can get your tank to work with oolite, all you need to do is try different powerhead placements and directions. That's all. It isn't much harder then that. I use oolite and I love it. I have two powerheads and the return pump flowing through my tank and I've never had a problem.

 

You could go with the mix like you mentioned above though, I'm sure that wouldn't be too big of a deal.

[Aegeon]

As usual, I didn't get as much done on the build over the weekend as I would have liked, so I'm not quite at the "wet rocks" stage. Everyone in the house, me, my wife and both kids, were sick. Luckily my mom was in town for the weekend (how often do you hear that?) and could help out with the kiddos.

 

I did manage to make some progress last night, though. I got everything moved upstairs to the tank's final location in the dining room. I managed to get all the equipment positioned inside the stand, wired up and plugged in, and I got the cabinet wiring secured and out of the way. Should have plenty of room to work around the sump. I also got all the final plumbing done, and the PVC cement & silicone is curing now. The plumbing should be ready for water tonight.

 

Here's a shot of the tank/stand in the dining room. Sorry for the poor photo quality, took the pics in a hurry this morning with my phone. Tried to clean them up a little in Photoshop, but it didn't help much:

 

 

Here's the inside of the cabinet:

 

 

Tried to get a shot of the back of the tank showing the plumbing. I'll get a better one when I pull the stand away from the wall tonight when I hook up the light fixture:

 

 

I have about 15 or so of the roughly 30 gallons of RODI I'll need to fill her up made up in the basement and waiting in 5 gallon buckets.

 

I also managed to pick up some salt and sand at a local shop. I wound up going with CaribSea Fiji Pink substrate. It's a little coarser (0.5-1.5mm grain size) than oolitic sand (0.2-1.5 mm) but not nearly so coarse as some of the other reef sands I saw (1-2 mm). I'm hoping this will be a good compromise: small enough for some of the burrowing critters, but heavy enough not to blow around too much.

 

I purchased Red Sea Coral Pro salt mix. Just got a 50 gallon bag to get started and see what I think of it. The bag won't last long, so it should be easy enough to change if I don't like it, or get a bigger bucket if it works well.

 

Tonight I have to hook up the light fixture and make sure all the electrical in the stand works properly. Then I'll get the whole setup placed and level the cabinet. After that, I'll rinse out the BRS base rock in some of the RODI I have mixed up, then try to work out an aquascape that I like. I'm hoping I can get all that done and fill the system up tonight. If all goes well, it should have overnight to get up to temperature and stabilize the salinity, and if I'm lucky I may be able to stop off after work tomorrow night to pick up a bit of live rock to toss in and start my cycle.

 

Getting closer!

[iball1804]

Looking great!

[Aegeon]

Got the light fixture installed last night and wired up all the connections to power the lights. Managed to get a few new pics, this time with a real camera instead of my phone.

 

Full setup:

 

Back of the tank showing the plumbing/wiring:

 

Inside the cabinet:

 

Aaaaaannnd..... then I went to test everything and hit a roadblock.

 

As it turns out, the damn outlets I'd chosen to use in the dining room don't work. The house is about 90 years old, so I expect some things to be broken, but this sucks. My options at this point are either to try to fix the outlet or move the tank somewhere else in the house. I really don't want to muck around with electrical wiring that's who knows how old, and I don't want to pay an electrician to work on a rental house.

 

So, it looks I'll be moving the whole setup tonight. I feel pretty dumb for not having checked the outlets sooner, but at least the tanks not full of rock and water yet.

 

I didn't feel like breaking things down and moving the whole setup last night, so instead I dug out all the BRS base rock that I'd been storing for the build and rinsed it all out twice in clean RODI water. Here it is drying out post-rinse in the basement. This stuff is pretty cool.

 

 

One question: After being dunked in the water, the rock made a fizzing sound. It was pretty loud too, and reminded me of an Alka-Seltzer. Anyone know what causes that?

[Aegeon]

Found a couple working outlets on another wall in the dining room. I rearranged a little furniture, moved a couple pictures, dragged the tank and cabinet to the other side of the room, and viola! Finally, a running setup:

 

 

Everything tested out fine. Lights work, and the return pump fired right up, no apparent leaks in the sump or return. I got the first 5 gallons or so of RO/DI into the system last night. I'll try to get the rest made up and added tonight. My plan is to run the system empty for a while to make sure everything looks good, no leaks in the plumbing, etc. Then I'll drain the display tank to do the aquascape, then fill her up again and mix up the salt.

 

Here's a shot with the room lights off, blue LEDs turned up. This thing is bright!

 

 

Hopefully I'll have the rock in by Friday night, add a little live rock on Saturday, then let the cycle begin!

[Aegeon]

And we're up and running! Over the weekend, I finally got everything finished up. I got the last of the RO/DI water made up and put into the system on Thursday and tested out the plumbing. Everything works great, and no leaks at all. I did find out that I forgot to drill an anti-siphon hole in the lock-line tube on the return when I almost overflowed my sump, but caught it in time and fixed the issue.

 

I got all the base rock, about 20 lbs. of it, placed in the tank and added the salt on Friday night. Let the system mix and get up to temperature overnight, and on Saturday morning tweaked the SG, which was a bit high at 1.030 back down to 1.025.

 

Late Saturday afternoon I visited a LFS and picked up about 7 lbs of live rock. There's a 3 lb chunk in the DT right now, and the other 4lb chunk in the sump. I think the stuff I got looks pretty good. Nice coralline coverage, deep purple colors, no algae. I was told it'd been in their system for almost a year, so it should be fully cured. It was out of the water for less than an hour and wrapped up in wet paper towels, so I'm hoping for a nice short cycle with minimum of dieoff from the rock.

 

 

24 hours later, Sunday night I did my first round of water tests:

 

Temp: 78 degrees

SG: 1.026

Ammonia: 0.25

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate 0

 

Here are a few photos. Front:

 

Left side:

 

Right side:

 

Here's the live rock in the DT:

 

It's amazing how long you can sit and stare at chunk of rock. With the lights out, I managed to spot a couple hitchhikers. I saw a single chiton that dove into a hole in the rock when I hit it with a flashlight, so no picture of him, but I did spot these two snails:

 

First snail. I think it's either a Collinista or a sundial. I'm hoping for the former. In any case, he came in on the rock that's in the sump, so it should be safe to keep him in there. He's about the size of a pea. Anyone have a definitive ID?

 

Second snail, this time in my DT. Purple shell, bright green foot, smaller than the first snail, probably 1/8" long. I pulled him out to get a pic of him, but put him back into the DT. I think this may have been a mistake. Looking around the internet since I found him, I now think it looks like a whelk. Whoops. Haven't seen him since yesterday. Thoughts?

 

Now the waiting game begins. Here's hoping for a short cycle!

[Aegeon]

The cycle continues, though I haven't seen much of a spike in anything. 3 days in, here are my levels:

 

Temp: 78 deg.

SG: 1.025

NH3: 0.25

NO2: 0

NO3: 0

 

Is it possible with mostly base rock and very cured live rock that was transported quickly (less than 1 hour out of water), there won't be a noticeable cycle at all? How long does it usually take to see ammonia start to spike? I'm running lights-out, and no skimmer or water changes. This is my first time through the cycle, so I'm not entirely sure what to expect.

 

I also got my JBJ level controller/ATO set up last night, so the SG should remain solid from this point out. I was topping off manually for the first 3 days of the cycle, and noticed the SG could swing from 1.025 to 1.028 in the 24 hours between top-offs.

 

A couple other cool things. It's amazing that stuff can hide so well inside live rock. On the first night with the live rock in the tank, I spotted a collonista snail and chiton, but haven't seen a trace of either since. Since then, I haven't seen anything on the rock at all. Then last night, I hit the rock with a flashlight to see if anything was around, and spotted this 3-4" bristle worm. Wonder where he's been for the last 3 days?

 

I also figured out I can take pictures through my refractometer with my iPhone. Probably pointless, but I thought it was interesting.

 

The cycle continues.... I think.

[MGDMIRAGE]

Whole thing looks really great so far, glad you picked back up on this I would try putting some fish food in the tank and waiting a bit then testing to see if any ammonia is present.

[Aegeon]

It's been six days since my last update, and everything seems to be going well. On the recommendations of fellow reefers here and on another board I started feeding the tank a bit of flake food twice a day on Jan 25. I also started the lights on a daily 10 hour cycle (10am - 8pm) on the 26th.

 

I saw a slight ammonia spike (0.5 on my Salifert kit) on Jan 27, which dropped back to 0 on the 28th. No sign of any nitrite spike at all, but a little nitrate appeared on the 28th and remained level for two days. Early in the morning on the 30th I did a 5 gal water change and fired up the skimmer. So far, the skimmer hasn't done anything yet, but I expect it'll take a while to break in, and there's still not very much in the water to skim out yet, so I'm not worried.

 

I've also heard that the Tunze 9002 I'm using takes some tweaking to get dialed in, so I'll have to fiddle with it, I'm sure. I think the water level in my sump is just a touch low for the skimmer, too, which I may have to address by upping the water level in my sump by about half an inch. I don't have a lot of headroom left in the sump for back-flow, so I'm hesitant to do this unless I have to. We'll see.

 

After 5 days of feeding the tank and running the lights with no apparent ill effects, I added my first livestock late in the evening on the 30th. I purchased two nano Ocellaris Clownfish, each about 1.5", and acclimated them over a 30 minute period, then dropped them in. They ate right away, and seem to be doing fine today. I'll let these guys hang our for a week or two and continue to monitor water parameters to see what impact they have on the system.

 

I also submitted a CUC design request to reefcleaners.org. I'm still waiting to hear back, but now that I have a little bio-load in the tank I think the CUC will be the next thing to go into the tank, maybe next week.

 

I'll try to get pics tonight. Feedback is always welcome.

 

Thanks!

[Zer0]

Well look at you. Finally you've got this whole thing setup! It all looks fantastic dude. What LED lights do you have btw?