my 5th day and confused

[nycxaro]

Hi guys, its been 5 days since the tank was started and I'm worried. How can I tell if there is still any kind of life left in the tank? Almost all the red stuff on the rocks are gone. Can anyone advise me on what to look for? thanks in advance

[HuBu]

life? 5th day of cycling? try testing for the common stuff like nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia. most critters (copods) wont come out until when the lights are off.

[Crakeur]

day 5? stop worrying.

 

test for ammonia, nitrates and nitrites. watch the levels of all three spike and return to zero or near zero.

 

this should take anywhere from 2-5 weeks.

 

worry about life in the tank after the cycle is over.

[nycxaro]

Thanks for the advice guys

 

I took measurements of the parameters today. Here they are:

 

Ammonia - 0.25

PH - 8.0

Nitrite - 1.0 or more

Nitrate - 250 High range and 50 Low range

Temp holding steady at 81

SG - 1.023

 

Anyone see any problems or want to comment on these numbers? All help is appreciated. thanks

[koolyce]

For sure your cycle is not done yet, but what you mean by:

 

Nitrate - 250 High range and 50 Low range

 

??

 

Also you PH is too low, need to be up to 8.3

[Blinkgyrl2987]

How can you raise Ph... I'm a lil scared about putting buffer in mine to raise it up....

 

This is the 7th day I've had my tank up and running the none of the parameters have changed...

 

Ammonia .25 or less

nitrite zero

nitrate zero

Ph 7.8 (ridicously low)

Salinity 1.021...working to bring it up

alk Normal range

 

Anything you guys can recommend for me?

is it possible there is not going to be a cycle at all.. if the rock was well cured when I got it???

thanks megan

[koolyce]

It's impossible to get no cycle. First, you have a peak of amoniac, after amoniac go to 0, after a peak of nitrite, nitrite go to 0 and after the nitrate start and water change and LR take off nitrate.

 

It can take up to 4-5 weeks to get the cycle done...you have to be patient.

 

For the PH, if you read the instruction on the buffer bottle, they told you exactly the measurement and you have no choice to do it because you have to be at 8.3.

 

Also, for your cycle, what do you have? Only LR?

[nycxaro]

Hi koolyce,

 

I measured the Nitrate and on the card, it has the color bars you match it to and on one side, theres the high range measurement and on the other, it has the low range meter. I dont know what that means but hope you guys would

 

Im using instant ocean salt mix. Doesnt this mix change the ph to a proper range or should I buy some kind of buffer?

[Tempest]

The pH doesn't have to be exactly 8.3 though that is ideal (8.1 - 8.3 is the "good" range). The pH will vary based on a number of factors. It can drop during a cycle or if you overfeed the tank due to an increase in acid products caused by the breakdown of food, stuff on rocks etc. A buffer isn't a bad idea, but I'd wait another week or 2 and see if the pH increases as the ammonia and nitrites decrease. There's nothing in the tank right now but the rock so I wouldn't panic if the pH isn't perfect. You might want to test the water you make with the salt mix and see what it's pH is BEFORE you add it to the tank. The salt mix should raise the pH, but not every brand or every batch comes out good.

[HuBu]

when did you perform the test?

 

morning, when the lights are just on, the pH would be low. it eventually rises later in the day. dont use too much buffer, you can buffer it like 3 times, then if the pH doesnt stabilize, dont add anymore buffer. just test for calc and alk to see where those two are. otherwise youll raise your alk sky high trying to get the pH @ 8.3. this is a common problem among beginners where they think dropping in some buffer would just fix the pH problem.

[Blinkgyrl2987]

I'm only cyclying with live rock....

[Blinkgyrl2987]

oh and there doesn't have to be a cycle if the rock is coming straight from a tank where the rock has already cycled.. hats why I thought that I might not get a cycle

[koolyce]

Impossible, all the tank have to be cycled. It's not LR who have to be cycled.

[keljim's]

It's not impossible...my tank never cycled. It is now 3 months old and has never had ammonia, nitrite, only tiny ammount of nitrate. I used rock straight out of the tanks at the LFS. My algae cleaners, mushrooms, leathers, etc. have all done fantastic and are proliferating as is my coraline algae.

[faust9]

Originally posted by Blinkgyrl2987

oh and there doesn't have to be a cycle if the rock is coming straight from a tank where the rock has already cycled.. hats why I thought that I might not get a cycle

 

This is incorrect. You are not cycling the LR when you establish a tank, you are cycling the entire tank system. As an analogy consider the following:

 

Say you have a production plant in Michigan. Everyday, a certain ammount of raw materials enters the plant (bio load). Team "A" takes some of the raw materials and produces product "A" (Ammonia). Team "B" take some more of the raw materials and product "A" to produce product "B" (Nitrite). Finally, Team "C" takes the remander of the raw materials and produce "B" to produce product "C". Now this team is very good at its job. All of the raw materials that come into the plant get converted to product "C" (nitrate).

 

Now, the owner of the plant decides to move the entire plant to Arkansas. When the owner moves, not all of the employees decide to go., so the owner has to hire some new employees. Initiall, production at the arkansas plant is slow because it takes some time to find the new employees. Raw materials are comming into the plant, but not all of those materials are getting converted to product "A"; consequently, production off products "B" and "C" fall short of their target. The plant owner eventually finds enough employees to handle a normal production ran but there is suddenly a raw material backload due to the initial ineffeciency of the new plant, so the owner brings in some temp workers to help with that backlog. These additional workers on team "A" take care of the backlog, but this swaps team "B" (ammonia spike). After a couple of days again the owner hires some people for team "B" and brings in some temp workers to cover the backlog. Team "B" gets caught up but in doing so backs up team "C" (nitrite spike). While team "B" was getting caught up, the plant owner decided to begin letting the temp workers go because team "A" could finally handle the work load. Now to handle the backlog from team "B" the owner simply decides to bring in a coupl of employees on team "C" and then slowly let the temp works go from team "B". By doing it this way, team "A" is neither over or under producing (Ammonia=0), team "B" eventually finds the correct number of employees to handle the workload from team "A" (nitrite=0), and finally, team "C" manpower slowly increases to the required level.

 

The time required for the teams to achieve max efficiency depends on the initial number of employees that came with the plant move, the ammount of raw materials brought into the plant each day, and the time required to find the correct number of employees.

 

Now given my above silly analogy, one should be able to see that anytime the production plant is moved, some time will be required to find enough employees to convert all of the raw materials to product "C".

 

This same thing happens in an aquarium. If you add a fish or LR, or any other load on the system, your change the bio load (raw materials), and some ammount of cycle time will be required to compensate for that change. The time required for bacteria populations to grow in response to any change bio load will register as fluctuations in ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate; however, one's ability to see thes fluctuations is limited by the equipment used to measure ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate and/or the relative change in bio load.

 

Will you always see these changes? My gut feeling is you should but there could arise a situation where these changes slip by unnoticed. I personally have no encountered a situation where the above didn't hold true.

 

This is my view of the aquatic world, and I'm sticking to it.

 

 

EDIT: I fixed some silly spelling errors.

[Blinkgyrl2987]

okay guys this morning I turned on my lights and I have brown stuff on my live rocks? is this the diatom break out..coming at the end of the cycle? Should a clean up crew come next?

[Dingo]

Koolyce, a tank with LR only will cycle if there is dead or dying stuff on the rock, which is almost always the case. If the rock has been in another tank for a long time, there could be a minimal or no cycle. All of the nitrifiers that grow during a cycle could already be there. In any case, you should give it at least 3-4 weeks to be sure.

 

If you have ANY ammonia or nitrite, your cycle is not over. After the nitrate is all turned to nitrate, and then the nitrate falls to zero, you are ready to add a cleanup crew. Diatoms are a good sign that everything is moving along.

 

Do not worry about PH during a cycle, it will bobble. In fact, for the most part, worrying about PH will cause more problems than it solves. Your water changes will add buffers to keep the PH in the right range.

 

Do not do water changes during a cycle, the pollution that you are removing is what drives the cycle.

 

How did your SG go lower than it started? Top off with RO or DI water, and only the amounts that evaporated.

 

The SG of natural sea water is ~1.026. Shoot for 1.024 to 1.025 if you are going to have corals, 1.021 is way too low.

[Isaka]

What dingo said...

couldn't put it any better myself, hehe

[nalbar]

yes Blinkgyrl2987 that USUALLY means you are nearing the end. wait until your nitrites are gone THEN add the cleanup crew after a partial water change. the water change is to get the nitrates low.

 

Blinkgyrl2987, as far as buffer (ph) is concerned, do not worry about it for now. anywhere near 8 is fine for the stage you are at. as long as you have a proper substrat it should stabilize. it is more of a problem on long term tanks that contain calcium gobbling corals. take it easy, be patient, the last thing you want to do at this stage is mess up your tank by dosing it to much. to recover from that can be tedious.

 

 

nalbar

[Blinkgyrl2987]

Hello All!

okay i don't mean to sound like an idiot! And I thank all of you for helping me.... but I still don't seem to understand something.... You said that if I have ANY ammonia or nitrite that my cycle is not over.... well I don't have any ( if my tests are working properly) but there is nothing when i test nitrates either.....

 

i understand the process of how the ammonia peaks and then falls and then nitrite rises and then falls and then nitrate rises.... and you perform water changes to help reduce nitrates....

 

But If I HAVE NO Ammonia, Nitrites , or nitrats... and I'm having a diatom bloom.... What does this Mean? I'm trying to understand if and how you can get the diatoms if there hasn't been a cycle???! Does what I'm asking make sense? Please let me know

 

Another question..... about salinity ranges 1.021 - 1.026

Is it true that anything over 1.026 and your fish will die.. and anything under 1.021 and they become stressed and most likely will begin to get diseases? I was aiming for 1.023 because i thought that was like mid way.... but your saying I need 1.024 or 1.025 for corals?... I thought that was too high! but i'll take your word for it... thanks again i'll shoot for 1.024

 

right now salinity is at 1.022

[nalbar]

yes, shoot for 1.024. i shoot for 1.025.

 

if you have 0 across the board after 7 days more than likely you are done cycling. but around here people are nervous to say that because many take a month and they will read your thread and go 'oh boy, it only takes a week!' and put stuff in to soon. there are LOTS of people reading this thread and the last thing we want is for them to think all cycles take a week! (want to know a secret? mine took FIVE days!) ok, that said, even if you are done it is better to wait some more time. you want your tank to age a little. tanks are like people, they get more stable with age, thusly giving better performance.

 

if you are 0 across the board after 8 days, take a water sample to your LFS, let them test it for a second opinion. look at the results (they lie sometimes to sell you stuff), if still 0 across the board, buy a SMALL clean up crew. you can always add to it in a week or so if tests stay 0.

 

and you are on your way. just don't forget, add stuff SLOW!

 

nalbar

[borzack]

hi...

 

i'm a newbie too...and it's the 5th day since i first setup my 8 gal tank.

 

My rocks came with dead sponge, plants and other organism like worms etc, is that allrite?

 

my ph is 8.5, salinity 1.024, ammonia 2mg/l, nitrite/nitrate (forgot to buy the test kit, will buy tomorrow) acoording to the chart (i bought SERA test kits) pH 8.5 and ammonia 2 mg/l will give 0.30 acyual ammonia level in mg/l and it's harmful when exposed on the long term. what does that means?

 

the water evoporates, do i top off or just let it be? if i should top off, do i add water+conditioner OR water+conditioner+salt?

 

my temp is high! it's 86! how do i cool it down?

 

errr...what are clean crews?

[Blinkgyrl2987]

HI! Welcome to reef keeping!

 

You should be topping off... because if you don't then your salinity will steadily rise... To top off only use distilled water or RO water because when water evaporates... the salt does not! Therefore you do not need to add more salt.

TOP off with "fresh" water.

 

Your temperature is High! If you have a heater... turn it down or take it out completely until your temp. comes down to 80 degrees

you want your temp between 78 - 80 degrees.

 

Clean up crew is how we refer to the snails and hermit crabs you add to your tank after your cycle has finished... They are the "Janitors" of the aquarium and will help clean your tank, live rock, glass and sand bed! They also help get rid of nuisance algae.

 

You said that your rocks came with dead sponges, plants and worms... this is PERFECTELY NORMAL! Right now you should just be letting your rock cure. As all the things on the rocks begins to die off... Your ammonia will rise... then your ammonia will drop to zero and your nitrite will riseand then drop to zero... and then the Nitrate will rise and also drop..... When all three of your levels reach zero... this means that the "CYCLE" is complete. Go out and get your other two test kits and test regularly so you can keep an eye on all three levels.... Cycling is a long process.... but after its all over the life that still remains on the rock will continue to grow..Which is what you want!

 

Patience is KEy! I'm on the 9th day of cycling my tank and I'm just waiting..

 

Ask all the questions you want.. thats what were here for!

~Megan~`

[Blinkgyrl2987]

NALBAR:

 

thank you for your response.

I tested my water again and it turns out that my parameters are

Ammonia .25

Nitrite .05

Nitrate 2.5 Low range

PH 8.0

 

(It turns out I wasn't letting the tests sit long enough before reading them.. so i guess I do have a while longer to wait)

 

Thanks alot.... I'm going to let everything drop to zero before adding a clean up crew....(I don't want to kill anything )and I guess I don't mind looking at diatoms for awhile LOL... thanks again.... ~`Megan~

[Dingo]

Old school people used to advocate low salinities because it stresses inverts. They figured that if you made it tough on inverts, it would lead to less parasites on fish. In fact, it stresses the fish and leads to kidney failure and early death.

 

We here are shooting to make inverts thrive, seeing as that is what a coral is. So stressing your corals on purpose is probably not a good idea.

 

Natural seawater is 35 ppt salt, which comes out to about 1.026 SG, depending on temperature. People go slightly lower so that evaporation won't drive it too high. Actually, according to the Borneman book, there is evidence that going too high is less stressful than going too low.

 

Stability is the key. The less swing, the better.